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Made in ca
Stealthy Dark Angels Scout with Shotgun



Comox Valley, BC

Hello all!

I'm not a power-gamer/competitive type by any-means. That said, I don't mind playing against those who are.

We all know the new DA codex was, like the CSM, arguably under-powered compared to the new Tau and Eldar codecs.

So does the new SM codex goup closer to the DA and CSM or the Tau and Eldar?

If it is a bit stronger than the DA codex does anyone anticipate/plan people playing DA "as SM"? What chapter tactics would be employed?


Tangentially, I sure wish DA was lumped in with the SM codex. It would have been so cool if GW developed the whole "Chapter Tactics" element more. Basically, including all the CSM legions in the CSM codex with their special rules and all the SM chapters in the SM codex.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
gak, if I had it my way all the codexes would be lumped in with the core rules each edition.

I'd pay $200 for a 1200 page all-inclusive 6th ed book.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/09/09 19:44:49


3000pts : 80% done. detail painting
2/6/1

2000pts : 70% done. detail painting
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2000pts : 60% done. Dipping
1/3/1 
   
Made in us
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader






I don't know if I would say necessarily one codex is better than the others. They both have pretty much the same core stuff, but DA get access to deathwing/ravenwing, and the DA codex has a lot of gear/units/rules that help the DA hold ground better than most.

That being said, the new CSM has the better flyers, more options, attack bike squads, and different chapter tactics.

I think both codexes are equally bad against Tau/Eldar. Marines of any flavor have the same fundamental flaw of requiring you to do a little bit of everything to get the most out of your points. Since there are no more first turn charges or charges off of infiltrate/scout/outflank, there isn't enough disruption to successfully and easily beatdown a Tau list without real effort these days.

"There is no limit to the human spirit, but sometimes I wish there was."
Customers ask me what army I play in 40k. Wrong Question. The only army I've never played is orks.

The Connoisseur of Crap.
Knowing is half the battle. But it is only half. Execution...application...performance...now that is the other half.
 
   
Made in nl
Loyal Necron Lychguard



Netherlands

That depends on your DA-tactic.
If you were playing Ravenwing, I would advice you to go White Scars.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




SM group with the other meq lists.
   
Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






 scuddman wrote:
I don't know if I would say necessarily one codex is better than the others. I don't know if I would say necessarily one codex is better than the others. They both have pretty much the same core stuff, but DA get access to deathwing/ravenwing, and the DA codex has a lot of gear/units/rules that help the DA hold ground better than most.

Errrrm......sorry I have to disagree with this. Codex DA is not comparable on a competitive level to the codex SM. It is, to almost all extents and purposes, a worse beta-stage codex space marines.

DA only really have a few unique and useful options left available to them. Prescience librarians, black knights, dakka banner and power field generator are some of the few which come to mind. But then all of these except the dakka banner can be taken and be used as allies.

Compared to this, codex space marines does many of the same things better or at a cheaper price. The prominence of the new whitescars bikes is a real kick in the teeth for ravenwing players, due to the points and rules disparities between the two.

In answer to the original question, I would expect many DA players to use the new SM codex in the future, especially if they are aiming at creating a more competitive list. However there are still a few perks to the DA list, and I'm sure many people will keep using the DA out of stubbornness in the face of codex creep, or love for their army/fluff.
   
Made in us
Loyal Necron Lychguard





St. Louis, MO

^^This^^

In almost every regard, C:SM exceed or at the very least equal DA.

11,100 pts, 7,000 pts
++ Heed my words for I am the Herald and we are the footsteps of doom. Interlopers, do we name you. Defilers of our
sacred earth. We have awoken to your primative species and will not tolerate your presence. Ours is the way of logic,
of cold hard reason: your irrationality, your human disease has no place in the necrontyr. Flesh is weak.
Surrender to the machine incarnate. Surrender and die.
++

Tuagh wrote: If you won't use a wrench, it isn't the bolt's fault that your hammer is useless.
 
   
Made in hu
Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot





 Maelstrom808 wrote:
^^This^^

In almost every regard, C:SM exceed or at the very least equal DA.


Actually, if you think about it, the only major things SM has over DA are grav weapons and White Scars. And maybe the storm shield relic. For everything else, the Dark Angels could show an equally good option (for example: TFC <-> Divination).

My armies:
14000 points 
   
Made in us
Scouting Shadow Warrior




If you think about it, DA has their own chapter tactics. Stubborn is pretty nice when you are trying to bog down a heavy hitter. Inner circle definitely has it's benefits if you are going a Deathwing heavy list. Ravenwing has scout, hit and run, and teleport homers. Throw all that on top of divination librarians and the power field generator and I think we're doing alright.

Our flyers our terrible though and we don't have sternguard and veteran vanguards or access to LOD units. But that would be pretty fun converting DA veterans to match vanguard and sternguard units using the SM codex.
   
Made in ie
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Limerick

 AtoMaki wrote:
For everything else, the Dark Angels could show an equally good option (for example: TFC <-> Divination).


How do you figure? TFCs are consistent and do the same thing every game. A Div Libby on the other hand has only two rolls to get a single power, and then needs to join a unit that can make use of it, and then needs to cast it successfully every turn. And that still doesn't leave him Barrage Snipe, fire indirectly, or Bolster Terrain. Now for the record, I don't think that DA are half as bad as most people think, but I'm just saying I'm not sure how an occasional boon is supposedly an equally good option as a consistent ass-kicker.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/19 18:09:26


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Nosebiter wrote:
Codex Space Marine is renamed as Codex Counts As Because I Dont Like To Loose And Gw Hates My Army.
 
   
Made in us
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





West Bend, WI

I have already started my SM Chapter! I have been lazy for the past year and have an entire 3000+ unpainted DA army. So, I plan on making my own color scheme with different commanders (Vulkan, Tigiruis, Samm/Khan, Shrike, etc....) to lead my different companies I will utilize the DA codex to bring in the PFG, Dakka Banner, and Black Knights. Additionally, when the BA & SW come out I'll probably add some of their cool themes to my own chapter.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





PittedPanda wrote:

We all know the new DA codex was, like the CSM, arguably under-powered compared to the new Tau and Eldar codecs.

We do? Or maybe you do. Or more accurately, you have such an opinion.

"'players must agree how they are going to select their armies, and if any restrictions apply to the number and type of models they can use."

This is an actual rule in the actual rulebook. Quit whining about how you can imagine someone's army touching you in a bad place and play by the actual rules.


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Made in gb
Stubborn Dark Angels Veteran Sergeant






 DarknessEternal wrote:
PittedPanda wrote:

We all know the new DA codex was, like the CSM, arguably under-powered compared to the new Tau and Eldar codecs.

We do? Or maybe you do. Or more accurately, you have such an opinion.

Now eldar and tau have been out a few months there has been a noticeable competitive shift away from CSM and DA which can no longer be put down to flavour of the month.
The 'power' of its codex is based on how competitive it is, and the number of players playing the codex at tournaments is often an indication of how competitive.
I think it is fair to say that DA have become less and less represented as new codices have come out, and a fair conclusion from this is that codex DA is not as powerful as the latest tau and eldar.

Not saying they are useless here, but come on, you really think DA got as much love as tau and the eldar did in their new codex?
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





West Bend, WI

Exactly, that is precisely why I'm making my own SM chapter so I can enjoy the benefits from every army for years to come!
   
Made in ca
Zealous Sin-Eater




Montreal

 AtoMaki wrote:
 Maelstrom808 wrote:
^^This^^

In almost every regard, C:SM exceed or at the very least equal DA.


Actually, if you think about it, the only major things SM has over DA are grav weapons and White Scars. And maybe the storm shield relic. For everything else, the Dark Angels could show an equally good option (for example: TFC <-> Divination).


The inability to field a bike army without being restricted to one of the fugliest miniature in the entire GW range is what kicked me in the teeth. I expect I'll be getting called WAAC for switching to C:SM, but the fact is, I was planning on doing so from the moment I red the the DA codex.

[...] for conflict is the great teacher, and pain, the perfect educator.  
   
Made in gb
Jovial Plaguebearer of Nurgle





West Bend, WI

I don't think it makes you a WAAC player at all. I actually think that it is the smartest way to go and am wondering why I never thought of it before the new C:SM hit the shelves. It only makes sense these days to make your own chapter and why not capitalize on all of the books if you are interested in some unique units to add to your collection?
   
 
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