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So with the new dex and the new buffs/nerfs, how do Salamander players roll now?

Some of my personal observations:

-As mentioned in another thread, 5 ASM with 2 twin-linked flamers and a free drop pod make an excellent suicide unit, for only 95 points (100 if you give meltabombs to the Sgt just in case). They roast a unit, then in they survive the opponent's turn can be a real annoyance.
-Master Crafting for all characters (Sgts). A lot of possibilities here, most common I think I'll see are for combi-meltas, to basically guarantee you're getting off that precious one shot. Also good for Relic Blades, TH, and Grav weapons
-Since now the Flamestorm cannon it covered by Chapter Tactics, LR Redeemers might finally be seen now. Yes, you're probably only gonna get one shot off before its meltaed to death, but that once shot is a S6 AP3 template with re-rolls to wounds, nothing to sneeze at.
-Devestators. Salamanders are probably the only army where taking MMs for Devs is viable (if you take Vulcan too of course). Twin-linked means even fliers have to stay weary of them, and they're cheap (110 points, 145 with drop pod, and if you have the extra 10 points give the SGT a combi-melta!). Even coming out of a drop pod, 4 twin linked snap shots there is a good chance you'll get off at least one shot.
-Tacticals, I see this unchanged from what I saw in 5th. 1 MM, one flamer, and a combi-weapon of your choice for the Sgt. Take a drop pod and it comes to exactly 200 points. Not bad.
-Sternguard. Heavy Flamers! 5 guys, two with heavy flamers, in a drop pod, maybe an extra combi-flamer if you have the points. 175 points, but will give even small units of terminators pause with how many wounds they'll be forcing them to take, to say nothing of how much Tau and Eldar will fear them.
-Ironclad Dreadnoughts. Give it two heavy flamers, put it in a drop pod. Pain.
-Venerable dreads. Multi-melta and Heavy flamer in drop pod. Essentially BS10 and not terribly expensive (170 points with drop pod). Pop a tank or roast a unit on the turn you arrive. It it survives to the next turn, assault!


Any other ideas/tactics?

Thanks for starting this thread Ferrum, we have all the others, but I've been waiting for this one.

The Drop Pod army is the only dependable list I can think of that will give Tau some issues.

What do Sallies do against Heldrakes? The only thing I can think of is run expensive Land Raiders (perhaps Redeemers for rerolls on flamers) or 3 Stalker/Hunters.

I love using drop pod lists, but they are extremely vulnerable to Heldrakes/Tau-interceptors.

What are Sallies players suppose to do to minimize damage besides spread out a little?

You could also use Aegis with a quad gun to take down fliers. While you would want some one on that quad gun it can still auto fire. Perhaps ally with UMs take Tiggy + unit of scouts + camo cloaks with Telion, have Telion man the gun?

"What about Heldrkes?" is a question that everyone's been asking since they came out. As far as stopping them, single Hunter ought to do the trick. You hit any flier in the game with that thing and it's pretty much toast.

I realize is a cliche question, but I feel like Salamanders, out of all the Space Marines, have the hardest time against them. Due to their strength in drop pods, their extensive use of flamers and meltas, and their lack of synergy between rolling/walking across the board with said-weapons.

Drop pods, meltas, and flamers are extremely powerful and that's what drew me to Sallies to begin with, I just have a hard time against Heldrakes. Stalkers/Hunters might be my new fetish. As for the Quadgun, in the cases I don't kill the Heldrakes in 1-interceptor, he flames the people behind it, rendering it worthless. Of course this can be countered now but Centurions, but is an expensive investment. I'd rather pick up 3 Stalkers and spam 12 shots a turn for almost 2/3's of the price. (Centurions+Aegis=325+ points, roughly)

I just came up with my firs Salamanders list: Drop Pod Massacre, tell me what you guys think and how I can improve it!

HQ

Vulcan -190

Command Squad - x5 flamers, melta bomb, drop pod - 165

TROOPS

Tactical Squad 10-man - MM, Flamer, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod - 200

Tactical Squad 10-man - MM, Flamer, Combi-Melta, Drop Pod - 200

ELITES

Sternguard Veterans 5-man - x2 Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod - 175

Sternguard Veterans 5-man - x2 Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod - 175

Sternguard Veterans 5-man - x2 Heavy Flamer, Drop Pod - 175

FAST ATTACK

Assault Squad 5-man - No jump packs, x2 flamers, drop pod - 95

Assault Squad 5-man - No jump packs, x2 flamers, drop pod - 95

Assault Squad 5-man - No jump packs, x2 flamers, drop pod - 95

HEAVY SUPPORT

Devastators 5-man - x4 Multi-Meltas, Drop Pod - 145

Devastators 5-man - x4 Multi-Meltas, Drop Pod - 145

Devastators 5-man - x4 Multi-Meltas, Drop Pod - 145

TOTAL: 2000 POINTS

Thats TWELVE Drop Pods, the entire army! The question is which 6 units do I have come in turn 1, and which do I leave for reserves?

And yes, I know this list has a lot of problems, but I like to start fluffy before I go competetive

What's this about Redeemers seeing action? Vehicles don't get CT so no tl flamestorm guys.

Chapter tactics doesnt effect Vehicles (except Iron Hands).

No more free TL flamers of Dreads, Speeders and Redeemers.

For the list of yours, I would like to squeeze in a few more troops.
Also, remember the other Salamander perk, free Master Crafting on characters.

Drop pod with beacon, 5 assault marines, 2 flamers, srg combiflamer and MC power weapon.

Also, when playing an all pod army, you want an odd number to squeeze in the extra pod on turn one.
Beacons on the first wave is really nice too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Chapter tactics doesnt effect Vehicles (except Iron Hands).

No more free TL flamers of Dreads, Speeders and Redeemers.

For the list of yours, I would like to squeeze in a few more troops.
Also, remember the other Salamander perk, free Master Crafting on characters.

Drop pod with beacon, 5 assault marines, 2 flamers, srg combiflamer and MC power weapon.

Also, when playing an all pod army, you want an odd number to squeeze in the extra pod on turn one.
Beacons on the first wave is really nice too.

lol, Bringing that many pods to a friends house would be a PITA.

Just had a thought, with characters getting master crafted goodness there may be a proliferation of MSU with master crafted combis on sarges instead of full 10 man squads with a special and heavy. Same number of bodies/weapons but twice the number of sarges and their gear for what, 20-40 pts?

 mrwhoop wrote:
Just had a thought, with characters getting master crafted goodness there may be a proliferation of MSU with master crafted combis on sarges instead of full 10 man squads with a special and heavy. Same number of bodies/weapons but twice the number of sarges and their gear for what, 20-40 pts?

I'm thinking a better idea would be ten man squad, one flamer/melta and combi-weapon on sgt in a drop pod, then combat squad it when it lands. would save a lot of points on drop pods.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 mrwhoop wrote:
Just had a thought, with characters getting master crafted goodness there may be a proliferation of MSU with master crafted combis on sarges instead of full 10 man squads with a special and heavy. Same number of bodies/weapons but twice the number of sarges and their gear for what, 20-40 pts?

I'm thinking a better idea would be ten man squad, one flamer/melta and combi-weapon on sgt in a drop pod, then combat squad it when it lands. would save a lot of points on drop pods.

Can you still combat squad after leaving a pod? The combat squadding now happens when you roll for a warlord trait, and while the rule says that two parts of a combat squad can embark on a transport, i dont think it allows them to start in a drop pod since you are not embarking on the transport.

Right, combat squading is before deployment and with a DT you can put them in reserve with it. Or half in reserve and half on the table.

@ Ferrum_Sanguinis I was thinking not more drop pods but more sarges. For 10pts more you can have 2 sarges with master crafted combis rather than 1 and still have the special and heavy weapon.

5 man Combi flamer/flamer/DP 120
5 man Combi melta/MM 90
total 210

OR

10 man squad combi flamer/flamer/MM/DP 200

*edited for grammer

Somebody pointed out that LotD benefit from Vulkan, so combining Vulkan's effect on Melta weapons with their ability deep strike where you want them and their ability to ignore cover is going to make killing skimmers incredibly amusing.

Any drop pod list can benefit massively by running triple Thunderfire Cannon out of the HS slot. Cheap pods and a great base of fire. You deploy them normally and their empty pods just come in and board control things. So if you can get 9 pods say at 1850; that's 5 on T1, with a great base of fire from the TFCs and then just 1 in reserve.

What I would do, 3 full Sternguard with vulkan. Plenty of combi flamer and melta (5-6 per) 3 tac squads in pods and 3 TFCs. Party on.

If you start the game with no units on the table, don't you lose automatically?

And I guess my LotD might be seeing some more action... if and when my SE salamanders codex arrives...
I mean, I only ordered it at 4:30AM the morning of the first pre-order date :/

 Exhumed wrote:
If you start the game with no units on the table, don't you lose automatically?

And I guess my LotD might be seeing some more action... if and when my SE salamanders codex arrives...
I mean, I only ordered it at 4:30AM the morning of the first pre-order date :/

You only lose if at the end of a ROUND (both your and your opponent's turn) you have no units on the table.

Good call Ferrum.

Anyone have a chance to play a game with the new Chapter Tactics?

I'm also curious if anyone has played them with Rhinos. I have a ton of pods, but no Rhinos and am considering getting some Rhinos now that I may not be bringing as much melta as I used to.

I know pods are the best way to get Flamers close, especially with Sternguard, so would it be wise to cut down on the pods and take a mix?

The reason I'm considering this, is with pods, as soon as my troops hit the table, they are on foot, and they get destroyed fairly easily. Will a Rhino help that at all?

Hi, guys, I have a rule question (I have been modeling for ages, but never played before), If Vulkan now gives Mastercrafted instead of Twin-linked to all combimeltas, does it mean that unit of 10 CM sternguards becomes totally broken since they can re-roll not only melta parts, but also regular parts of theyr combi-weapons (including specialist amunition)?

It is even better on the sergeants because if you give him allready mastercrafted combimelta (trough Vulkan) you can mastercraft-upgrade his CC weapon. I can see lots of people taking 2x 5 man TAC squads instead of 10 man squads because of this.
Actually the more I think about this rule, the more broken it is.

And please pardon my english and if the mastercrafting rule does not work like I understand it does disregard my crazy mumbling, I'm a bit new to the gaming part of the hobby.

 Zlord wrote:
Hi, guys, I have a rule question (I have been modeling for ages, but never played before), If Vulkan now gives Mastercrafted instead of Twin-linked to all combimeltas, does it mean that unit of 10 CM sternguards becomes totally broken since they can re-roll not only melta parts, but also regular parts of theyr combi-weapons (including specialist amunition)?

It is even better on the sergeants because if you give him allready mastercrafted combimelta (trough Vulkan) you can mastercraft-upgrade his CC weapon. I can see lots of people taking 2x 5 man TAC squads instead of 10 man squads because of this.
Actually the more I think about this rule, the more broken it is.

And please pardon my english and if the mastercrafting rule does not work like I understand it does disregard my crazy mumbling, I'm a bit new to the gaming part of the hobby.

Good questions. I can't find any reason why the boltgun portion of the combi melta wouldn't benefit from the mastercrafted ability, however I'm probably missing something -- and if it was the case, you are only going to be able to re-roll 1 failed hit when rapid firing, but still.....that seems pretty crazy.

The change to specify Combi-Meltas makes you wonder...

If we get away with it, then I can justify the increased price tag!

EDIT: I put a thread up for this in YMDC -- http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/551969.page -- Hope you don't mind! I really want to find out what people say.

 mrwhoop wrote:
snip
@ Ferrum_Sanguinis I was thinking not more drop pods but more sarges. For 10pts more you can have 2 sarges with master crafted combis rather than 1 and still have the special and heavy weapon.

5 man Combi flamer/flamer/DP 120
5 man Combi melta/MM 90
total 210

OR

10 man squad combi flamer/flamer/MM/DP 200

*edited for grammer

It um feels weird to quote myself just 6 posts prior...but yes mastercrafting the sarges combi is super fun since that gives you another chance to get the 6 and pinpoint a special weapon or Nob with PK. I tried a game the other day and the Sallie rules are sweet. A group of burnas came up and with 17 hits with armor rerolls I only lost one marine. And I did try 2x5 man teams with combi plasma and LC for just a few more points and it is NICE to reroll a one on gets hot!

My favorite squads to run so far with new CT are:

Legion of the Damned:
+Melta
+MM
+Combi-Grav

Essentially, since they are Slow and Purposeful (Relentless), they get Melta @ Full BS & TL. MultiMelta @ Full BS & TL. 3 Grav shots @ Full 18" range. All AP2 or better and all ignoring cover. You can min/man the Legions for 5 reliable Low AP/No Cover shots. Talk about MC killers.

My second favorite:

10-man Tacticals in Pods
+Melta
+MM
+Master-crafted Combi-Grav

Essentially, the same thing with Ignore Cover Special Rule, but 2 TL Meltas and 2 "Mastercrafted" Gravs. Reliably 4 AP2 shots that hit and wound on 2's or 3's against MCs.

I mention MCs in both examples because normal bolters do the trick against the rest. Obviously, if they are running Mech, the melta's always work and Grav aren't too bad at stripping hull points here and there. Not to mention Legion of the Damned ignore Smoke Launchers.