Iron Hands Tactica

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**Puscifer**

I thought I'd give this a go as I couldn't see one up...

First of all... The CT.

6+ FNP, IWND on Vehicles and Characters, +1 to Techmarines and MOTF to fix things.

Some say mediocre, but this Marine army can really shine.

WEAKNESSES...

Drop lists do not work on Tau. They have too much firepower that can wreck any Dreadnought you put up there.

Tank lists do not work against Necrons or Eldar. Eldar can just haywire or Dcannon our tanks. Necrons just glance to death. No matter how cool IWND is, it doesn't help vs these two armies.

THINGS THAT WORK...

Land Raider Achilles and MOTF - Toughest tank in the game.
Twin Vindicators - Must answer targets.
Assault Terminators - The FNP, even at a 6+ helps.
Land Raider Spam - Is a thing and is crazy.
Stormraven Spam - IWND Ravens. Yup... Tougher than Drakes and can kill a Drake with ease.
Venerable Dreadnought Riflemen - Backed up by Techmarines or MOTF is insane. They just don't die and are super accurate. Lots of Dakka. Spamable too.
MOTF - Cheap character, which is much needed considering the amount of armour we bring.
Techmarines - They are not bad here. Great for Ven Dread Rifle Spam. Just remember to take two HQ to get a full quota.
DA PFG - I hate allies, but yes, it works.
CM in TDA - Not only is it fluffy, he is absolutely as hard as nails when taken with the Relic Shield. Considering how many Land Raiders this army can use and use well, I think he's more suited here than the CM on bike. Attach a TH/SS Squad or HG for maximum beatings.

THINGS WE THOUGHT WOULD WORK...

The EW CM on a bike - too expensive and needs a bike squadron to babysit him. Points that should go elsewhere. We are not White Scars who take multiple Bike squads or have rules to take advantage of.
Dread Drop Spam - Eldar and Tau eat this list for breakfast.

Has anyone else got anything they want to add?

**Kain**

Iron Hands Achilles Land Raiders and Spartans are going to make people cry cheese for quite a while, drive up a PFG and a Techmarine/MoTF next to them to maximize tears and butthurt.

Did you somehow get a hullpoint off my AV14 all around melta and lance immune tank that forces you to roll -1 on the damage table? Lemme roll that away.

Want to try ignoring it? Nope, Thunderfire cannon.

Get close? Nope, multimeltas.

Sure it's expensive at 325 points, but it's never going down and is going to be a pain in the ass all game long.

**Puscifer**

PFG?

**Kain**

Puscifer wrote:
PFG?

Dark angels power field generator for a tasty 4++ save against shooting.

Because an Achilles with IWND and repairs isn't tough enough.

**jamin484**

Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.

**Kain**

jamin484 wrote:
Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.

Hence cover saves or a power field generator to bounce off the few Grav weapons that do hit. Hull point stripping is in any case, a fairly bad way to kill something that can so easily get them back like a IWND Land Raider with something to repair it.

**Puscifer**

Kain wrote:
jamin484 wrote:
Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.

Hence cover saves or a power field generator to bounce off the few Grav weapons that do hit. Hull point stripping is in any case, a fairly bad way to kill something that can so easily get them back like a IWND Land Raider with something to repair it.

LMAO... PFG plus the Achilles and IH stuff is just wrong.

I never take Allies, so it's a moot point for me.

On the Grav Weapons murdering this Tank subject... That's about as useful as glancing it with Str 8 and it'll have a MOTF and two repair servitors with Techmarine backups.

The MOTF will repair on 2+ with all his buffs and 3+ for the two Techmarines.

I FEAR NOTHING, FOR FEAR IS WEAK AND THE WEAK WILL PERISH!!!

**Kain**

Puscifer wrote:
Kain wrote:
jamin484 wrote:
Grav weapons will maul achillies or Spartans.

Hence cover saves or a power field generator to bounce off the few Grav weapons that do hit. Hull point stripping is in any case, a fairly bad way to kill something that can so easily get them back like a IWND Land Raider with something to repair it.

LMAO... PFG plus the Achilles and IH stuff is just wrong.

I never take Allies, so it's a moot point for me.

On the Grav Weapons murdering this Tank subject... That's about as useful as glancing it with Str 8 and it'll have a MOTF and two repair servitors with Techmarine backups.

The MOTF will repair on 2+ with all his buffs and 3+ for the two Techmarines.

I FEAR NOTHING, FOR FEAR IS WEAK AND THE WEAK WILL PERISH!!!

Grav weapons are probably scarier than S8 spam because A. they get off *far* more shots and B. every glance after the first one removes two hull points. But you should be able to keep them away.

If you don't want to use the PFG, hiding in bolstered ruins is still very much a troll move.

**mwnciboo**

After being butt hurt all my 40k life by bigger badder tanks, vehicles and special characters, read monoliths and Fortune cast on Eldar vehicles, Deep Striking Land Raiders, I am going to take alot of joy in beating the living Cr*p out of all of my local META-SPAM with my achilles, scores and grudges will be settled (I have ordered it and it seems FW are shifting a fair few since Saturday!).

Wraithknights and Riptides will fall, all I need to work out is the most efficient way to neutralise HELLDRAKES and I'm golden.

**Kain**

mwnciboo wrote:
After being butt hurt all my 40k life by bigger badder tanks, vehicles and special characters, read monoliths and Fortune cast on Eldar vehicles, Deep Striking Land Raiders, I am going to take alot of joy in beating the living Cr*p out of all of my local META-SPAM with my achilles, scores and grudges will be settled (I have ordered it and it seems FW are shifting a fair few since Saturday!).

Wraithknights and Riptides will fall, all I need to work out is the most efficient way to neutralise HELLDRAKES and I'm golden.

Storm talons do well against heldrakes. Their rear armor is pretty crap after all and you have a turret.

**Puscifer**

The Hunter is good vs the Drakes too and if you have the Achilles, you don't need to take another TFC.

Hmmmm... what to take in that third HS slot?

What do you think about taking small squads of Tac Marines in Razorbacks?

**rubicant99**

Is ironclad spam with MOTF viable?

**Puscifer**

Hmmmm... not sure.

I don't rate Ironclads.

If you use Drop Pods, they'll be left in the open for a turn.

If you use Stormraven, it's a lot of eggs in one basket.

I've been looking at Rifleman Dreads. IWND might make them useable again. I won't take more than two though as I want a TH/SS squad.

Meltadrop Dreads will work though and they might stick around with IWND.

**Dundas**

Now that 5 man tactical squads can take a DP, you could do quite a funny list with 6 Ironclads (or any other type of dread) with DPs arriving on turn 1, with another 5 pods each with a tactical squad in reserve. Add a MotF and it still comes less than 1750 points.

**Trozen**

I am planning on using that beefed up Clan Leader to see how he does. 250pts for one HQ is only good if he is worth it. Thunder hammer, EW SS, bike, and AA they are all good but add up. If you put him in a bike squad with grav guns, the loss of initiate is sort of mitigated by the concussive rule on their shots.

My big question is what to use as anti-air. I know the usefulness of Stormtalons, but they probably won't benefit from our traits much. The other option is the hunter imo. 3hps and 60" range make it very survivable for a cheap vehicle.

**Puscifer**

I've tried the CM and the Hunter and they worked really well.

Auto includes at 1500+ for me.

**Iron Father Mac**

Personally, i'm looking at the MoTF as an HQ with Relic Shield placed in the Achilles with a 5 man sternguard squad.

He now has 2+/3++, ew, fnp, iwnd, can repair on a 3+, and has 5 sternguard to deliver if the need arises. Almost like i just gave him a Generic Command squad.

**Puscifer**

MOTF with PF and Relic Shield is really good. 4 PF attacks plus EW and 3++ is a great cheap character.

**Unit1126PLL**

Why the PF? Use the servo-arms and never buy a melee weapon again.

**Trozen**

Puscifer wrote:
MOTF with PF and Relic Shield is really good. 4 PF attacks plus EW and 3++ is a great cheap character.

But you are paying a premium on EW for only 2W.

**Puscifer**

4 PF is better than two and if he's your only character, you'll be greatful for them.

I do agree on the premium for a 2w EW, that's why I prefer the CM.

**ultimentra**

Anyone else see some promise with taking IG and IH? MotF and Techmarines repair friendly vehicles, this means Leman Russes and any other Guard vehicle. Take some infantry squads and conscripts to stand behind the tanks or to the sides incase grav guns come about, and bring a MotF with some Tac marine squads up the mid field and decimate?

**Puscifer**

I don't know if IG will add much tbh. IH in IG on the other hand is quite interesting.

**mwnciboo**

Iron Father Mac wrote:
Personally, i'm looking at the MoTF as an HQ with Relic Shield placed in the Achilles with a 5 man sternguard squad.

He now has 2+/3++, ew, fnp, iwnd, can repair on a 3+, and has 5 sternguard to deliver if the need arises. Almost like i just gave him a Generic Command squad.

Tying Sternguard to a CC Character with 2W seems foolish to me, though I maybe wrong? If you want a meat shield surely a Scout Squad is cheaper?

**juraigamer**

Honestly just running ironclads in pods with a master of the forge for more ironclads makes the army hilariously broken.

First turn you ironclad their deployment zone with 6 of the bastards. You then have 5 groups of tacticals in pods, a master of the forge and 3 TFC to boot. 5 points to spare. Enjoy.

**Puscifer**

juraigamer wrote:
Honestly just running ironclads in pods with a master of the forge for more ironclads makes the army hilariously broken.

First turn you ironclad their deployment zone with 6 of the bastards. You then have 5 groups of tacticals in pods, a master of the forge and 3 TFC to boot. 5 points to spare. Enjoy.

I'll proxy this and have a go.

Not sure if it'll work though.

**juraigamer**

Place all 3 TFC on the field.

Put MOTF in a random pod.

Drop all dreads first turn.

Do things, kill stuff, fire all 3 TFC and 6 heavy flamers and 6 melta guns. Don't forget 12 snap fire storm bolters.

Watch as the enemy flaps around your av 13, killing 2 probably.

Other pods come in, your MOTF can land in base contact with a dread to repair it.

Kill all the things, drop 5 man tacticals on objectives for late game.

**mwnciboo**

I used an Iron-Clad a couple of weeks ago and it battered a Daemon Prince. It shouldn't have happened, I got lucky but the player was concentrating on him, if I'd drop 6 on him I think he would have been overloaded.

This is before I add in IWND and others elements from the new Codex.

**Meade**

I'm not sure it's economical to use the MOTF when you get IWND on all your vehicles for free... when instead you can spam the vehicles? More vehicles means more chance the ability will work, and you get more stuff that can shoot. And no need to get spendy with HQ and Elite slots... let the vehicles do the work and have a few dudes inside to clean up after.

I was thinking of making a list that is built around AV 13/14, w/ two land raiders, and two tanks, plus two rhinos with full tac squads. Vindi or Pred is the real question... vindis would be at home moving up with the Raiders (mobile cover shenanigans) and their weapons are very good against vehicles and infantry, but on the other hand maybe I'm better off with longer range stuff?

Thinking Vindi's for now

I don't play IH but Minotaurs, and want to use the chapter tactics to represent them.

**Jpat1213**

juraigamer wrote:
Honestly just running ironclads in pods with a master of the forge for more ironclads makes the army hilariously broken.

First turn you ironclad their deployment zone with 6 of the bastards. You then have 5 groups of tacticals in pods, a master of the forge and 3 TFC to boot. 5 points to spare. Enjoy.

How do you have 6 and 3 TFC?

Thought they replace heavy slots.

In 1850 I planned on running 3
Broken HQ CM with some type of gun(haven't decided) and a scoring bike unit with PW & AB 2 grav guns + combi grav
That unit will put a hurt on anything it shoots at yet alone assault.