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I'm thinking White Scars got the best deal personally.

But all options are good.

Input considered and thread reviewed.

Why?

White Scars

Should have made a poll.

White Scars.

I think it depends on what you are doing. I think for a Stormraven spam list, the Black Hands look pretty good.

Templars. 5-man lasplas squads are as solid as ever (more so, in fact, now that there's no RZ and we can get a combi-weapon, althout expensive) and having access to 5-man combi+special+heavy units means you can get as much firepower as possible in there per Marine. Templars have the offensively most powerful Chapter Masters (IH being the defensively best one) and can pad out MSU units with cheaper extra wounds (albeit weaker) than normal TAC squads. When one of the main Marine weaknesses is a lack of numbers, having access to cheaper wound-fillers is huge.

For bikes: white scars
For vehicles: iron hands
Otherwise it's your call.

I'd have to say White Scars as well. Ravenwing were already a pretty good bike force, and White Scars just took that up a notch, and for cheaper. They look really strong.

I like the iron hands myself. That extra bit of survivabilty can go a long way. Hopefully will get to try it out in a game next weekend.

I think White Scars easily take the cake if your group allows special characters. Khan's army wide Scout is pretty amazing.

Without SCs, I think Iron Hands rank up there pretty well. 6+ FnP isn't huge, but it's army wide. IWND on vehicles and Characters is sweet. +1 to BotO rolls is pretty much just gravy.

What makes Iron Hands so strong?

6+ FnP means 1 in 6 models that should have died won't.
Characters and vehicles all get IWND, so they can regenerate wounds and HP.
+1 to BotO rolls for Techmarines is a nice little bit that pairs well with IWND on vehicles.

Kangodo wrote:
What makes Iron Hands so strong?

Having IWND on characters and vehicles is pretty strong. You can really make a powerhouse HQ with those traits backing it up.

IWND on the vehicles. It's probably not as good as White Scars, but it's a thing. And 6+ FNP is not terrible. It's actually a deal given that BA have to tote around a weak ass IC to get 5+ FNP, which is all he is really doing at this point.

Martel732 wrote:
IWND on the vehicles. It's probably not as good as White Scars, but it's a thing. And 6+ FNP is not terrible. It's actually a deal given that BA have to tote around a weak ass IC to get 5+ FNP, which is all he is really doing at this point.

Yeah, army wide FNP (even a 6+) is better than paying 50 points for a priest to give it to a squad or two. Not to mention the iron hands get it free. You can't game plan around it, but a few lucky sixes here and there could change a game. Its the chapter tactic I will be trying in my 1st game.

Yeah, it's not fortune good, but it's a nice bonus tweak.

Iron Hands got a damn sweet deal if you play it right. Salamanders wound up pretty much the same.

I am an Iron Hand player and I am happy with it so far. White Scars got the best improvement imo and they are really good if you do it right. Salamanders are no slouch either.

I think that the White Scars Chapter Tactics plus Khan's USR makes them the pretty awesome. Iron Hands Chapter tactic is also good. The Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is also useful if you bring Marneus along for the ride.

I am actually wondering what the White Scars-supplement could possible give a Bike-army that it doesn't already have.
Biker-Devastators?

Why is there no Angry Marines on the list?

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Templars. 5-man lasplas squads are as solid as ever (more so, in fact, now that there's no RZ and we can get a combi-weapon, althout expensive) and having access to 5-man combi+special+heavy units means you can get as much firepower as possible in there per Marine. Templars have the offensively most powerful Chapter Masters (IH being the defensively best one) and can pad out MSU units with cheaper extra wounds (albeit weaker) than normal TAC squads. When one of the main Marine weaknesses is a lack of numbers, having access to cheaper wound-fillers is huge.

Interesting....I will have to read more about the templar rules tonight.

Also, the only unit they lose access to is Librarians, so you can still have the biker Captain, or the Master of the Forge (or both) or pure Tactical or Scout squads.

They are Marines +1 in the Marine Codex.

 streamdragon wrote:
6+ FnP means 1 in 6 models that should have died won't.
Characters and vehicles all get IWND, so they can regenerate wounds and HP.
+1 to BotO rolls for Techmarines is a nice little bit that pairs well with IWND on vehicles.

You can't really say 1 in 6. I have games where I always roll exactly what I need to and games where I lose horribly. No in between. There's no "statistics". Only the dice gods to whom we sacrifice our opponents.

 Psienesis wrote:
Why is there no Angry Marines on the list?

AGREED!!!

Best army depends on your models and play style really.

If you enjoy changing your army to whatever you need, the most flexible and best is Ultramarines.

If you want tanks and vehicles everywhere, go Iron Hands.

If you like to play fast and mobile go with White Scars bikes...or even Raven Guard assault marines (White Scars are better at this though)

And if you enjoy infantry or horde style...Black Templars, easily.

Drop pod shock would go to Salamanders, there are just TOO many bad things they can bring to bear in the enemy backzone turn 1 and 2.

Imperial fists are a very solid traditional infantry with support army. Go bolters and predators here and you should do well with all the rerolls and tank hunters.

The new codex did ONE THING REALLY WELL, it made marines slightly different for each and every possible play style. Figure out what units you like, what tactics you like, and choose a chapter that boosts them to your desires.

 Isean wrote:


The new codex did ONE THING REALLY WELL, it made marines slightly different for each and every possible play style. Figure out what units you like, what tactics you like, and choose a chapter that boosts them to your desires.

Be nice, Chaos Marine players are unhappy enough without rubbing it in.

White Scars are great, but Iron Hands are the yin to their yang.

Iron Hands make vehicles tough to deal with again.

 AngryMarine wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
Why is there no Angry Marines on the list?

AGREED!!!

What is Black Templars?

The more I think about it the better Raven Guard is looking to me. Being able to scout rhino/razorback-mounted units 12" up the board is a serious boon. No more rhinos getting blown apart in your deployment zone if you don't get first turn. It also greatly helps with nabbing objectives, allowing you to set up a defensive position around 'em much earlier than you'd otherwise be able to. If you manage to get first turn then you can move the transports a further 6", disembark 6" and be right at your opponent's deployment zone if you want to, rapid-firing, flame-template-ing, and/or melta-ing enemy units. It's not something you'll want to do against every enemy, but it's wonderful against any army that spends the game trying to keep you at an arm's length.

Getting Stealth on that first turn is just icing on the cake. (Though the jump infantry boons are somewhat meh, offset by the fact that Assault Marines can't use Scout if they have their packs).