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And it allows ALL other weapons to reroll 1's to hit, including combis on sterns and heavy weapons in dev squads.

tbh, droppodlsts are either of Ultra, impfist or wolf: they all have their advantages

I like Sallies with Vulkan a lot.... makes combi meltas and meltas VERY good

 The Shrike wrote:
I don't understand the UM love. They get Rerolls of BOLTER weaponry. It's the combi weapons, both flame and melta that are providing the real alpha strike pain. They do have effective scoring and Tighrius, but from a pure alpha strike perspective, they don't measure up.

It's all shooting, not just bolters. Tacticals become fully Twin-Linked.

Tigurius is just so insane!
With his Warlord trait and Divination powers, you basically have:
-Your Chapter Doctrine on T1
-Prescience on T2 and Storm of Fire on T2.
-Almost a 100% guarantee that every Drop Pod lands on T2 (you really want Div-Power 6 in my opinion)
-Perfect Timing can give an entire unit 'Ignores Cover' and you can give the unit in 'front' a 4++

Or you can use Calgar too.
-You lose Storm of Fire, but Calgar has Storm of Fire too (a very big chance on having it)
-Tactical Doctrine twice!

Sure, their Alpha-strike is 10% less strong. But their Alpha-strike lasts two turns

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:

Taking Terminator Combi-weapon Wolf Guard is where it's at though.

Not when you want to 'alpha strike' though, better to have more power armor guys because that means more combi-weapon shots. A full TDA WG squad in a pod is only 5 guys, so 5 combi-weapons. 10 PA WG can fit in a pod for 10 combis. Or because WG can have mixed squads, 8 PA 1 TDA or 6 PA 2 TDA are also options.

Actually, for Ultras, I'd be tempted to take 3 "large" (that is, 7/8 man) Devastator squads. The Devastator doctrine will allow them to fire on the turn they arrive - 1 squad of multimeltas for vehicles, and 2 of plasma cannons together with added bolters and anything from Tactical and Sternguard squads should make for some really hefty damage. Then you get to use the other doctrines in later turns still and the Devastators can sit more or less where they are to pick on other stuff - the extra couple of bodies being used for any return fire.

That doesn't work, it includes the line "unless they disembark from a Transport in their Movement phase".

Now you will probably say: But they must disembark upon landing, before the movement phase.
But a turn is divided in: Movement, Shooting and Assault-phase. (page 9) There is no "in-between" phase like with MTG (They call it an Upkeep)

Was about to say... that would've been scary...

Aw man, that would have been a really fun tactic to try out.

I think the reliance on triple TFC and lots of very short ranged weaponary will do very poorly against flyers. YMMV

By all means capitalise on the 1st turn Alpha strike. I would suggest more flamer, some plasma/grav and melta.

I can't really say much more, I don't own the codex yet

That's why you take Stormtalons in the Fast Slot, nothing else interesting in there

I've been debating DP lists as well. And who to take for the parent list.

For allies, here's what I would be bringing. : Dark Angels Libby (Divination) with Port field generator (4++) to anyone close.

Scout squad for troops, infiltrate on an objective or near one.

Devastator squad in a pod with 4 Flakk missiles. Libby rides along.

This gives you a decent anti-air unit that can survive baleflamers.

Now, if you take the UM CT and Tiggy, you take fortifications, throw on a quad gun and a UM Dev squad, with the sergeant and his signum boosting someone on the quad gun to a 2+ to hit. Have Tiggy use Divination on the rest of the unit with flakk, and now you have awesome AA. You'd have to give up the TFCs, but I think 8 missile launchers makes up for it.

If I had the points, I'd actually take DA as the parent list so I could throw Belial and some DeathWing in on the alpha strike. Or keep them as allies and instead of the libby, take a techmarine with the PFG, but then I'd lose Divination on the Devs.

I think what we need for making the right list is a list of what our opponents will have that we will need to counter and hit with the alpha strike. Riptides, Wraithknights, Big Daemons and Nid MC flyers etc. What about Daemon lists who also, in effect, pod in??? What are the drop pod tactics against them.

 The Shrike wrote:
I don't understand the UM love. They get Rerolls of BOLTER weaponry.

Thats the Bolter Drill rule for IF CT.

On the flip side, now that I think about it....

Taking wolves as allies would be powerful as well.

Main list, CSM with 2 units of Devs with flakk missiles.

Allied list: 2 Runepriests with divination.

2 GH squads

stick the runepriests down with the Devs.

GH's would be in the first wave. 2 special weapons, and they have more attacks and counter attack if the enemy charges them first turn.

2nd turn drop brings in shooters with rerolls.

Another variation would be first turn droppers use white scars CT, and if charged first turn they can hit and run, allowing second turn droppers to fire on them.

Another thing you have to take into account with pod armies is the counter attack after the drop. Can you weather counter fire and assault? Marines aren't the best in HTH and armor 3+ does easily these days.

Welp, confused them with Imperial Fists lol. Whoops.
Still; I'm not sure one turn of Rerolls justifies UM over te others.

 The Shrike wrote:
I don't understand the UM love. They get Rerolls of BOLTER weaponry. It's the combi weapons, both flame and melta that are providing the real alpha strike pain. They do have effective scoring and Tighrius, but from a pure alpha strike perspective, they don't measure up.

"Models in this detachment re-roll
all To Hit rolls of 1 made in the Shooting phase.
Models in the detachment's Tactical Squads instead
re-ro ll all failed To Hit rolls made in the Shooting phase."

Affects allll shooting. Not as good as straight up TL, but since its army wide rerolling 1/2 of all your misses (rerolling all with Tac), its going to add up. Don't overlook Tigurius either. His warlord trait will let you re roll all 1s for squads within 12" the next turn. Not to mention rerolling reserves. Not to mention buffing your squads with prescience, perfect timing, that 4++ power, forcing rerolled armor saves etc.

My main sticking point, though is how best to abuse Tigurius. Do I want him to stay in the back with the TFCs? Do I put him in a pod with a combat squad and try to go offensive with him? If so, should I have a level 1 libby in the back field to try to preserve Slay the Warlord?

I'd run him up with the main force. If you're playing an alpha strike pod list you've really just gotta run it all out. At lvl 1 there's not much the extra libby is gonna do to buff the TFC and if you don't make Tigurius your warlord you're missing out on his sweet warlord trait. He's too much of a force multiplier not to have in the fray if you ask me.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kangodo wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
I don't understand the UM love. They get Rerolls of BOLTER weaponry. It's the combi weapons, both flame and melta that are providing the real alpha strike pain. They do have effective scoring and Tighrius, but from a pure alpha strike perspective, they don't measure up.

It's all shooting, not just bolters. Tacticals become fully Twin-Linked.

Tigurius is just so insane!
With his Warlord trait and Divination powers, you basically have:
-Your Chapter Doctrine on T1
-Prescience on T2 and Storm of Fire on T2.
-Almost a 100% guarantee that every Drop Pod lands on T2 (you really want Div-Power 6 in my opinion)
-Perfect Timing can give an entire unit 'Ignores Cover' and you can give the unit in 'front' a 4++

Sure, their Alpha-strike is 10% less strong. But their Alpha-strike lasts two turns

This. This by far. All of the pod lists are going to to end up being fairly similar with the CT really making the big differences. Tigurius is the biggest force multiplier out there by far. My only difference here is that I would want the divination power that forces enemy units to reroll successful armor saves. How sick would that be with rerollable hell fire rounds?

I'm sold. UM FTW. That's why I made this thread; I wouldn't have thunk it on my own. How about a list like this?:

Tigurius

Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205
Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205
Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod- 205

Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125

Stormtalon: sky hammer- 125
Stormtalon: sky hammer- 125

Thunderfire Cannon- 100
Thunderfire Cannon- 100

Total: 1980

A) does this look good?
B) what to do with the last 20 points?

I've been playing around with an IH drop-pod list.

It goes something like this;

Captain - Artificer Armour, Shield Eternal, Thunder hammer

MoTF

Ironclad - 2 HF, Pod

Ironclad - 2 HF, Pod

5 Sternguard - Pod

5 Tacticals -, Melta, Combimelta, Pod

5 Tacticals -, Melta, Combimelta, Pod

10 Tacticals - ML, Flamer, Pod

Venerable Dread - MM, Heavy Flamer, Pod

Venerable Dread - MM, Heavy Flamer, Pod

Dread - 2x TL AC, pod



9 Drop pods, 5 Dreads and a tough as hell commander tanking wounds for sternguard.

I'd find space for a techmarine depending on points.

I know...I have no AA. I could look at dropping the Rifleman dread and something else in favour of two stormtalons i suppose.

A drop pod list can be countered simply by taking a couple of GK Strike Squads. Just saying.

 The Shrike wrote:
I'm sold. UM FTW. That's why I made this thread; I wouldn't have thunk it on my own. How about a list like this?:

Tigurius

Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205
Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205
Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod- 205

Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125

Stormtalon: sky hammer- 125
Stormtalon: sky hammer- 125

Thunderfire Cannon- 100
Thunderfire Cannon- 100

Total: 1980

A) does this look good?
B) what to do with the last 20 points?

A) No.

The point of a pod list isn't to get as many pods on the table as possible, it's to get as many marines where you need them as possible. Putting combat squads in pods means you're paying for extra pods that you neither want, nor need.

You're better off with;
Tacs x 10: combi-melta, meltagun, missile, pod - 210

Than you are with:
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125


Because you can deploy the missile guy in the backfield or have him arrive in the pod with his friends. And, on top of that, you're saving 40 points per 10 marines. That's 120 points saved over your troops, and another few points over your elites, and you can get another whole pod, or something else with those saved points.

Polecat wrote:
A drop pod list can be countered simply by taking a couple of GK Strike Squads. Just saying.

True. Just gotta stay 12" away!

Seriously though....I hate Warp Quake....

 NickTheButcher wrote:

Polecat wrote:
A drop pod list can be countered simply by taking a couple of GK Strike Squads. Just saying.

True. Just gotta stay 12" away!

Seriously though....I hate Warp Quake....

Yeah but it's one unit from one army that does this (yes I know other armies have interceptor which isn't fun but GKSS spamming Warp Quake is much worse). I wouldn't be too concerned.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 The Shrike wrote:
I'm sold. UM FTW.

I'm not sold it will be better than SW, but that seems to be the best options for SM pods. The combination of Tigurius and the chapter tactics is great...

Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205

Wondering if it would be better to have fewer Sternguard squads but make them 10 Sternguard, 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, then combat squad them on the drop. HF aren't going to do much to MCs and other nasty stuff but they'll do great against infantry with bad saves. Combi-gravs are a waste against infantry with bad saves. Also, I don't have the codex, are combi-gravs 10 points like all the other combi-weapons? Or are they more expensive?

 Redbeard wrote:

 The Shrike wrote:
I'm sold. UM FTW. That's why I made this thread; I wouldn't have thunk it on my own. How about a list like this?:

Tigurius

Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205
Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod-205
Sternguard x5: 2 heavy flamers, 3 combi-grav, pod- 205

Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125

Stormtalon: sky hammer- 125
Stormtalon: sky hammer- 125

Thunderfire Cannon- 100
Thunderfire Cannon- 100

Total: 1980

A) does this look good?
B) what to do with the last 20 points?

A) No.

The point of a pod list isn't to get as many pods on the table as possible, it's to get as many marines where you need them as possible. Putting combat squads in pods means you're paying for extra pods that you neither want, nor need.

You're better off with;
Tacs x 10: combi-melta, meltagun, missile, pod - 210

Than you are with:
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125
Tacs x 5: combi-melta, meltagun, pod- 125


Because you can deploy the missile guy in the backfield or have him arrive in the pod with his friends. And, on top of that, you're saving 40 points per 10 marines. That's 120 points saved over your troops, and another few points over your elites, and you can get another whole pod, or something else with those saved points.

You dont mean deploying the missile guy in the backfield by...combat squadding...before dropping....because you can't do that.

Are you sure? Because you always could before, and I'm reasonably sure you still can. But, my codex is not at hand. There may be some chance I'm wrong.

Combat squads are done before warlord traits so it can be done

Yup, the new rules let you combat squad well before deployment, but you can put both combat squads in the pod. Page 76. So you can split out heavy weapons from your tac squads to reinforce your thunderfire positions, and combat squad your sternguard to allow them to alpha-strike two different targets when they get out of the pod.

Also, with Tigurius he can't cast Blessings or Maledictions when arriving in a Pod, so be wary of that. It's probably better for him to deploy elsewhere at the start of the game unless you're willing to risk him.

 Andilus Greatsword wrote:
Also, with Tigurius he can't cast Blessings or Maledictions when arriving in a Pod, so be wary of that. It's probably better for him to deploy elsewhere at the start of the game unless you're willing to risk him.

This is concerning, for sure. He can use his warlord trait on turn 1 to replace Prescience, but nothing makes up for losing out on Invisibility or Forwarning or Telekine Dome. W3 is nice, but he still has only a 3+ save and can be instant killed.

 Redbeard wrote:
Yup, the new rules let you combat squad well before deployment, but you can put both combat squads in the pod. Page 76. So you can split out heavy weapons from your tac squads to reinforce your thunderfire positions, and combat squad your sternguard to allow them to alpha-strike two different targets when they get out of the pod.

My mistake, I did not see that.

I've been thinking, always a dangerous exercise, that 30 stern guard, fully decked, 3 thunder fires and only 2 full tac squads at 1850 is probably te way to go....with Pedro. You still have a ton of scoring but the combat squads allow you to do stuff
Like this:

Drop.

Heavy Flamers and spec ammo in one CS,

3-4 combi melta in the other CS.

Meltas open tin cans or instagib things and flamers and spec
Ammo burn the contents. Pedro also has 4W and gives his little +1A buff...almost like wolves, well, poor mans wolves but they'd then have 3 attacks getting charged.