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Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Ok so grav weapons wound based on the target's armor save. So what do we do when the target unit is a mixed armor save unit? The obvious example would broadsides with missile drones, or a unit that has a character in it with a better save for the unit. what does dakka think?
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.

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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

rigeld2 wrote:
RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.

this seems like the best way to handle it.

And coincides with the rest of the to wound rules, just substitute majority Toughness for Majority Armor Save and the rules work flawlessly (For once).

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We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






rigeld2 wrote:
RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.


That solution seems like a mix bag for riptides, as majority T 4 will hurt them as they will run away to bolter fire, but an absolute coo for broadsides that now get to treat grav guns like AP2 bolters.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






I would have to agree. Use the majority armour save. If no majority exists, use the best (in this case the lowest).

Mr. Cruddace and team didn't think this one through unfortunately.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





Maryland

Majority saves makes sense, but what do you do when there is no majority? For toughness it would be use the highest... but what's considered "higher"? A worse save is numerically higher...

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Made in us
The Hive Mind





 morgendonner wrote:
Majority saves makes sense, but what do you do when there is no majority? For toughness it would be use the highest... but what's considered "higher"? A worse save is numerically higher...

The highest save is a 2+, because the rules say that a save gets better as it goes down.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/11 16:49:56


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Made in us
Captain of the Forlorn Hope





Chicago, IL

Pony_law wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.


That solution seems like a mix bag for riptides, as majority T 4 will hurt them as they will run away to bolter fire, but an absolute coo for broadsides that now get to treat grav guns like AP2 bolters.


Riptides have Majority T4?

"Did you notice a sign out in front of my chapel that said "Land Raider Storage"?" -High Chaplain Astorath the Grim Redeemer of the Lost.

I sold my soul to the devil and now the bastard is demanding a refund!

We do not have an attorney-client relationship. I am not your lawyer. The statements I make do not constitute legal advice. Any statements made by me are based upon the limited facts you have presented, and under the premise that you will consult with a local attorney. This is not an attempt to solicit business. This disclaimer is in addition to any disclaimers that this website has made.
 
   
Made in ca
Lieutenant Colonel






rigeld2 wrote:
RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.


I wouldnt say RAW is no solution,

just like with things that wound vrs Ld, when we are told to sub in Ld for T, we sub in armour save for T in this case,

so yes I agree with you, but would say RAW is pretty clear that its majority sv as we sub in sv for T just like other mechanics.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




I think he was talking about taking drones on the riptide and broadsides, majority saves really helps tau as the broadsides get a majority 4+ with drones, and the riptide as well, afaik shielded missile drones are t6 as well so they will still be majority t6 vs bolter though.
   
Made in us
The Hive Mind





 easysauce wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.


I wouldnt say RAW is no solution,

just like with things that wound vrs Ld, when we are told to sub in Ld for T, we sub in armour save for T in this case,

so yes I agree with you, but would say RAW is pretty clear that its majority sv as we sub in sv for T just like other mechanics.

Except we aren't wounding against the armor save.
We're using the armor save as the to-wound roll. We don't even use the to-wound chart. Not a similar situation by any means.

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Been Around the Block




 DeathReaper wrote:
Pony_law wrote:
rigeld2 wrote:
RAW - no solution
HIWPI - majority save, similar to majority toughness.


That solution seems like a mix bag for riptides, as majority T 4 will hurt them as they will run away to bolter fire, but an absolute coo for broadsides that now get to treat grav guns like AP2 bolters.


Riptides have Majority T4?


I assume he means with drones which is not correct. Their drones are the same Toughness as the Riptides. They have a worse save though so grav weapons are weakened on riptides with the HIWPI ruling until one of the drones dies.

EDIT: triple ninja, man i am a slow typer

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/11 17:04:04


 
   
Made in us
Battleship Captain






The FoB FAQ'd it as majority save. I would also have to go into extent if its a perfect 50/50 cut you always get the better of the two. By that I mean you get the resulting save that will cause less damage. For example 5 wraith guard attached to 5 spirit seers. Their sv is '-' so they are almost immune to grav weapons. There is wording on the grav type that they always at least wound on a roll of a 6.
   
Made in us
Trigger-Happy Baal Predator Pilot






 cormadepanda wrote:
The FoB FAQ'd it as majority save. I would also have to go into extent if its a perfect 50/50 cut you always get the better of the two. By that I mean you get the resulting save that will cause less damage. For example 5 wraith guard attached to 5 spirit seers. Their sv is '-' so they are almost immune to grav weapons. There is wording on the grav type that they always at least wound on a roll of a 6.


So my buddies swarmlord with iron arm and his 1 tyrant guard are t6 then right? The 'better' armour save is the 3+ from the wraith guard, so the unit (being mixed 50/50) would be wounded on 3+.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/09/11 22:49:20


 
   
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Battleship Captain






 Mulletdude wrote:
 cormadepanda wrote:
The FoB FAQ'd it as majority save. I would also have to go into extent if its a perfect 50/50 cut you always get the better of the two. By that I mean you get the resulting save that will cause less damage. For example 5 wraith guard attached to 5 spirit seers. Their sv is '-' so they are almost immune to grav weapons. There is wording on the grav type that they always at least wound on a roll of a 6.


So my buddies swarmlord with iron arm and his 1 tyrant guard are t6 then right? The 'better' armour save is the 3+ from the wraith guard, so the unit (being mixed 50/50) would be wounded on 3+.



Yes that would be the case in my world. Because the defender always gets the benefit of the best majority. Ie t6 wraith at 5 models and 5 spirit seers treat the unit as t6 for shooting.

In the case of grav guns, he would have a 3+ save and a 2+ save with the Tyrant and guard. Thus you wound on 3+ over 2+ because he gets the best benefit majority.
   
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Dakka Veteran





Just don't use fast dice and roll wounds separately so a drone on 4 then when gone a tide on 2 etc.
   
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Fixture of Dakka




Temple Prime

 Mulletdude wrote:
 cormadepanda wrote:
The FoB FAQ'd it as majority save. I would also have to go into extent if its a perfect 50/50 cut you always get the better of the two. By that I mean you get the resulting save that will cause less damage. For example 5 wraith guard attached to 5 spirit seers. Their sv is '-' so they are almost immune to grav weapons. There is wording on the grav type that they always at least wound on a roll of a 6.


So my buddies swarmlord with iron arm and his 1 tyrant guard are t6 then right? The 'better' armour save is the 3+ from the wraith guard, so the unit (being mixed 50/50) would be wounded on 3+.

No, you use the best one if there's only one of each different toughness values.

That's why a swarmstar of a tyrant guard, a swarmlord, and a tyranid prime is so strong, they all use the Swarmlord's heightened toughness value.

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