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 Grey Templar wrote:
And the Nice will have developed an immunity to that toxin.

The Imperium figured out quickly that using bioweapons on Nice was a baaaaaaad idea.

So you develop a new one with a different transmission vector. How long has Influenza evaded eradication here? It continually evolves, there is no such thing as complete immunity. You just have to mix it up, something the Imperium cannot do with it's fear of new technologies/discoveries.


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 Sasori wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Tau just don't have the time frame to become a advanced threat. With the tyranids moving in on the Milky Way and Imotekh heading their way future looks bleak.

THIS. Just this. If its not the Imperium to do them in, it's either the 'nids or the 'crons.

Farsight's scientists developed a toxin which poisoned and destroyed a Tyranid fleet. So in their second encounter, the Tau came up with a more efficient and successful method of defeating the Tyranids than the Imperium had in the countless wars it has had with Tyranids.

As for the Necrons, that remains to be seen.

I believe every Battle the Tau have fought alone against the Necrons, they have lost.

Can't find any mention of Tau vs Necron in their codex or the Main Rulebook. Guessing these are from the Necron Codex?

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Tau just don't have the time frame to become a advanced threat. With the tyranids moving in on the Milky Way and Imotekh heading their way future looks bleak.

Because of the inconsistent Tau fluff, it takes the Tau less than one year to build the following ship... and in that year they made the blue prints, tested the ship, and finally made it.




in Old fluff it took a while... new fluff less than a year (only because FTL for tau isn't discovered until 996-7m41)

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
But as it gets larger and larger, the Tau will inevitably draw the attention of the other galactic powers.

Sure, but that alone does not guarantee those galactic powers will respond with armies big enough or even respond at all: there are Charadon Ork empire and Sauthekh Dynasty Necron empire near the Tau Empire, both are much more threatening, yet nor Imperium nor Eldar haven't launched major crusades on them because they have more necessary and bigger threats to spend their limited resources on.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:
Can't find any mention of Tau vs Necron in their codex or the Main Rulebook. Guessing these are from the Necron Codex?

Surprisingly not - they are from Tiranyd codex. Though Necron codex slightly changed that war.
In short, lage Necron fleet destroyed hivefleet splinter before it launched planetfall on Tau world, and then Necrons landed to be greeted like heroes. Then they massacred entire greeting party and proceed to "harvest" the world. Necron codex changed it a bit, as Necrons doesn't harvest anymore, so this fleet was Anrakyr the Travler's crusade and they came to "leberate" their sleeping brethren from organic barbarians who stole their world.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

Farsight's scientists developed a toxin which poisoned and destroyed a Tyranid fleet. So in their second encounter, the Tau came up with a more efficient and successful method of defeating the Tyranids than the Imperium had in the countless wars it has had with Tyranids.

Others have already responded to this.

As for the Necrons, that remains to be seen.

Right...as if an upstart civilization a few millennia-old could match/surpass the technology of a civilization that fought the ancient Eldar on equal terms.

The Necrons are still only in the early stages of their awakening. This makes their combat power relatively limited and their worlds vulnerable to overthrow without credible resistance.

The Necrons may have once fought on equal terms with the Ancient Eldar, but at this moment, they are probably only barely on terms with the moder on Eldar. The fact that there is pretty much a war going on amount the Necrons currently also puts a limiter on them.

Locally the Tau have the combination of forces they need to survive pretty much any incursion up to, but not including, a properly organized and led Imperium Crusade. Anybody else is either too small in number to matter or the Tau have developed a working counter measure too.

This of course would change over time. Without a next level in technological advancement, it is likely the Tau will be snowed under by the Tyranids.

Jefffar wrote:
The Necrons are still only in the early stages of their awakening. This makes their combat power relatively limited and their worlds vulnerable to overthrow without credible resistance.

Right...are you even aware of the capabilities of their leaders or their technology?

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
The Necrons are still only in the early stages of their awakening. This makes their combat power relatively limited and their worlds vulnerable to overthrow without credible resistance.

Right...are you even aware of the capabilities of their leaders or their technology?

Are you aware of the capabilities of Tau technology, considering it is evolving all the time?

The Necron technology is advanced, yeah. But they've reached a plateau, it won't get any better. There's no reason to believe that the Tau won't surpass it.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
The Necrons are still only in the early stages of their awakening. This makes their combat power relatively limited and their worlds vulnerable to overthrow without credible resistance.

Right...are you even aware of the capabilities of their leaders or their technology?

Are you aware of the capabilities of Tau technology, considering it is evolving all the time?

The Necron technology is advanced, yeah. But they've reached a plateau, it won't get any better. There's no reason to believe that the Tau won't surpass it.

So you're saying they can bridge the sixty million years and more of technological difference in the blink of an eye? Good luck with that. Heck, Necron tech is capable of breaking the laws of physics without resorting to psionics.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
So you're saying they can bridge the sixty million years and more of technological difference in the blink of an eye? Good luck with that. Heck, Necron tech is capable of breaking the laws of physics without resorting to psionics.

Necrons do not have sixty million years of technological difference as they spent all this years in stasis.
Also Necron tech do not break the laws of physics - they just follow those laws of physics other races do not know (yet). Necron reached this level through normal science research, despite only small elite part of their society was involved and interested in those researches - nothing Tau could not repeat given enough time.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
So you're saying they can bridge the sixty million years and more of technological difference in the blink of an eye? Good luck with that. Heck, Necron tech is capable of breaking the laws of physics without resorting to psionics.

Necrons do not have sixty million years of technological difference as they spent all this years in stasis.
Also Necron tech do not break the laws of physics - they just follow those laws of physics other races do not know (yet). Necron reached this level through normal science research, despite only small elite part of their society was involved and interested in those researches - nothing Tau could not repeat given enough time.

Perhaps...but as with all 40k factions, time is not something anyone can afford. And it changes nothing: Necron tech (at least with regards to non-psionics) is on par with that of the Eldar.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Necron tech (at least with regards to non-psionics) is on par with that of the Eldar.

Necron tech is superior to Eldar, as Necrons can controll time, predict future, create pocket dimensions, cut off entire planets from the Warp, summon lightning storms, hurricanes and earthquakes, which Eldars only can do with psionics or cannot do at all

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
The Necrons are still only in the early stages of their awakening. This makes their combat power relatively limited and their worlds vulnerable to overthrow without credible resistance.

Right...are you even aware of the capabilities of their leaders or their technology?

Yep. Are you aware that the vast, vast majority of those leaders and that technology is blissfully slumbering instead of doing anything?

All of the powers in the Galaxy have fatal flaws. The Tau have he combination of not fully understanding what is going on yet and not having good warp alcapabilities. The Necrons have the Pariah virus and the fact that most of them can't do anything as they are still in stasis.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Necron tech (at least with regards to non-psionics) is on par with that of the Eldar.

Necron tech is superior to Eldar, as Necrons can controll time, predict future, create pocket dimensions, cut off entire planets from the Warp, summon lightning storms, hurricanes and earthquakes, which Eldars only can do with psionics or cannot do at all

Actually, the Eldar Empire could do all that and more, but I digress.

Jefffar wrote:

Yep. Are you aware that the vast, vast majority of those leaders and that technology is blissfully slumbering instead of doing anything?

Yes; and I also know that both the Silent King and at least one other Overlord whose name escapes me at the moment are rushing to wake them up, albeit for different reasons.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
Actually, the Eldar Empire could do all that and more, but I digress.

Actually Eldar Empire war raped to death. Literally.
Everything "modern" Eldars have are just a paltry remnants of their former glory.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:


Yes; and I also know that both the Silent King and at least one other Overlord whose name escapes me at the moment are rushing to wake them up, albeit for different reasons.

Yes, and the Tau are rushing to improve their tech and the Imperium is rushing to block the 13th Black Crusade. There's an awful lot of urgency in the 40k universe, but not a lot seems to get done.

Jefffar wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:


Yes; and I also know that both the Silent King and at least one other Overlord whose name escapes me at the moment are rushing to wake them up, albeit for different reasons.

Yes, and the Tau are rushing to improve their tech and the Imperium is rushing to block the 13th Black Crusade. There's an awful lot of urgency in the 40k universe, but not a lot seems to get done.

Well, that's GW for you

Anyone who suggested using Bioweapons on tyranids forgets that both Uriel Ventris' and Force Commander hairgel's tricks have already been adapted to.

They no longer work, at all.

I'm not sure if the Imperium even Virus bombs them anymore for fear of the Tyranids simply adapting to it and spitting it back at them.

In any case, the full onset of the Tyranid species and the full awakening of the Necrons would likely mean the End of the Imperium, nevermind the Tau and their tiny empire.

As for Necron tech. A single Dynasty and it's clients took down sixty worlds in a hundred days, was fond of opening a space battle by igniting the sun until the solar storm fried everything on a dayside of a planet, could suck a hundred thousand years off a star's lifetime in one go, are fond of starting a space battle by tossing chunks of dead (and thus ridiculously heavy) stars at very close to light speed, shut down virtually all technology capable of receiving a signal as simple as "Maynarkh comes" and very nearly crushed a fleet massively larger than the Damocles crusade with a force only a quarter the size with an even smaller fraction of the tonnage.

A single World Engine laughed off multiple battlefleets until an entire Space Marine Chapter kamikazed themselves and wiped themselves out to a man targeting the weak points of the ship and destroyed entire planets in single shots, and it's implied that many Tomb Worlds are actually World Engines that just attracted debris to form a planet over them.

A single Necron Tomb Ship interrupted the battle of Boros Prime, completely destroyed a Dark Age of Technology star fort that an entire word bearer's fleet needed to pack a *battle barge* full of nuclear explosives to hurt in a single go, completely and utterly ignored repeated bombardment from the Word Bearers, and it's complement of ground forces was stomping on both Fourteen Billion Guardsmen and Three hundred loyalists and Seven Thousand Word Bearers Chaos Space Marines, Millions if not billions of cultists and traitor guards, and an entire Titan Demi-Legion.

The Sautekh empire is substantially larger and more powerful than the Maynarkh Dynasty if somewhat less bloodthirsty and may have some World Engines to spare and has Tomb ships aplenty.

The Tau cannot hope to beat the Necrons in space, and if they lose the Space Game, the Necrons can do whatever the hell they want to anything on the ground. It's not like they particularly need the planets to be habitable afterwards.

 Grimm wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
and only ever bear one child.

A species the only bore one child per couple would never survive. Even two would be cutting it fine.

A birth rate for humans in this day, age and in western culture of about 2.08 is considered the break even point. The 0.8 is to take into account deaths before adulthood. In saying that though. The 0.8 does sound a bit low as well.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
So you're saying they can bridge the sixty million years and more of technological difference in the blink of an eye? Good luck with that. Heck, Necron tech is capable of breaking the laws of physics without resorting to psionics.

Necrons do not have sixty million years of technological difference as they spent all this years in stasis.
Also Necron tech do not break the laws of physics - they just follow those laws of physics other races do not know (yet). Necron reached this level through normal science research, despite only small elite part of their society was involved and interested in those researches - nothing Tau could not repeat given enough time.

The Necrons are capable of time-travel. Not as an accident or Warp-shenanigans, but true, 88 miles-per-hour, Marty McFly Time-Travel.

Absolutely no other faction in the setting has managed this feat, or even come anywhere near the ballpark to do so.

ETA: They are also amongst the (if not *the*) oldest races in the galaxy. We have no idea how long their race existed before the War in Heaven. We only have the information regarding the fall of the Necrontyr, but nothing at all about their beginnings. They may, indeed, have been around as a civilization for 60 million years, before the War in Heaven which happened 60 million years prior to the current era. To put that into perspective, human civilization, as we would recognize it, will have reached roughly 50,000 of history in M41.

The necrons were quoted as being around when the galaxy was fairly young as per the 3e book and nothing suggests this has changed. So billions of years?

Also, the Necrons can destroy the entire galaxy with literally the flick of a switch, any star whose representation in the Celestial Orrery goes Supernova. Turning it off sets them all off simultaneously.

Everyone dies in a sequence that would make micheal bay cream himself.

Destroying the Tau Empire would be as easy as making some hand gestures.

The Necrontyr are just more intelligent than the Tau. They think on levels beyond lesser beings and younger races.

Necron tech makes no sense to the Tau or Imperials. It requires sciences literally impossible for humans to understand.

This isn't XCOM where two weeks with some fragments lets you build working replicas.

This is SPACE MAGIC with SCIENCE WIZARDS from a race of MUMMY ROBOT GODS.

The Tau make things darker because they reinforce that there is no hope for good at all. The only somewhat nice faction can be squashed like a bug and will never amount to anything. They sweeten the despair by providing false hope, weak hope. They seem bright but when you zoom out that lit is drowned by more evil, stronger evil. Endless, unbeatable Evil.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Jefffar wrote:
The Necrons are still only in the early stages of their awakening. This makes their combat power relatively limited and their worlds vulnerable to overthrow without credible resistance.

Right...are you even aware of the capabilities of their leaders or their technology?

Are you aware of the capabilities of Tau technology, considering it is evolving all the time?

The Necron technology is advanced, yeah. But they've reached a plateau, it won't get any better. There's no reason to believe that the Tau won't surpass it.

This is actually quite false. There have been several instances of Necrons actually improving and developing more of their Technology.

Eh, Necron stuff is still not as advanced as ORk tech.

To be fair, Orks are almost as old as the Necrons are. Sure, they had something of a Dark Age, but that was very long ago and they seem suitably recovered from it at this point..... and also didn't go to sleep for 60 million years.

The important thing to remember is that the Orks and Eldar and Hrud and Umbra and Slann and Jokaero and so many others were created by the Old Ones to fight the Necrons.

Given that the Old Ones are demonstrably dead and the Necrons are awakening again I'd say they all failed.

However, the Necrons were not able to kill the Orks or Eldar off.


The Nightbringer-- the source of the fear of death in all life native to the galaxy, including life forms like the Tau-- wasn't even capable of bringing Orks to fear him.

 Melissia wrote:
However, the Necrons were not able to kill the Orks or Eldar off.


The Nightbringer-- the source of the fear of death in all life native to the galaxy, including life forms like the Tau-- wasn't even capable of bringing Orks to fear him.

After destroying one race of billions of years old gods Szarekh immediately wheeled around and destroyed another.

Then he looked at all the death his millions year long war and everything he had done and told everyone to go to bed and spent the next sixty million years feeling bad for himself.

Still, not like the Orks miss their scaley task masters. Not sure how the Eldar feel about their creators.

 Kain wrote:

The Tau make things darker because they reinforce that there is no hope for good at all. The only somewhat nice faction can be squashed like a bug and will never amount to anything. They sweeten the despair by providing false hope, weak hope. They seem bright but when you zoom out that lit is drowned by more evil, stronger evil. Endless, unbeatable Evil.

If they really believe in their sweet little lies, then I pity them when the darkness and insanity of the universe finally makes itself apparent to them.

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Cyten wrote:
P.S.
Not to mention their rationalist and inclusive philosophy of Greater Good which I really like, they are like the Star Trek Federation, only better.

Well, they're like the Star Trek's Federation, but with social engineering, non-mobile caste systems limiting personal freedoms, constant pervasive propaganda, all to condition a population to believe in the utter rightness of an aggressive expansionist empire building.

Basically The Greater Good is a sham. The Tau are heavily drawn of Huxley's Brave New World's rigid social castes, replete with socially engineered subspecies that are optimized for their specific task in the society, and a rigid ruleset that prevents any cross-class mobility, and prevents any cross-class breeding and dilution of the idealized subspecies. Plus, each caste is utterly convinced that they have the best job and that they are doing the best they can do for society. If you want to read about the Tau, read Aldous Huxley's novel Brave New World.

Just brought the book on Ebay. Thanks for the recommendation.

 Messy0 wrote:

 Veteran Sergeant wrote:

Cyten wrote:
P.S.
Not to mention their rationalist and inclusive philosophy of Greater Good which I really like, they are like the Star Trek Federation, only better.

Well, they're like the Star Trek's Federation, but with social engineering, non-mobile caste systems limiting personal freedoms, constant pervasive propaganda, all to condition a population to believe in the utter rightness of an aggressive expansionist empire building.

Basically The Greater Good is a sham. The Tau are heavily drawn of Huxley's Brave New World's rigid social castes, replete with socially engineered subspecies that are optimized for their specific task in the society, and a rigid ruleset that prevents any cross-class mobility, and prevents any cross-class breeding and dilution of the idealized subspecies. Plus, each caste is utterly convinced that they have the best job and that they are doing the best they can do for society. If you want to read about the Tau, read Aldous Huxley's novel Brave New World.

Just brought the book on Ebay. Thanks for the recommendation.

Well, Brave New World minus the free drugs and sleep-with-whoever-you-want mindset.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
Even with total air supperiority the Tau can't break the Marine line defending the pull back from the planet - even with Manta support and no Titans to counter them.

This part was totally a marine plot armour. I mean they used land speeders to repell Manta. Like the Manta haven't like three dozens of LB burstcannons which coud turn land speeders into sieve.
An speaking about titans, they are terrible at countering mantas, as their weapon aren't designed to target aircraft. Not like empty manta is much better against titans - two heavy raliguns are too weak against anything but warhounds, and other manta weapons are only good at dropping void shields. The main way Tau use mantas against titans it though dropping crisis teams loaded with double fusion cannons right on them.

Are you kidding me? Heavy rail guns are designed to take out titans, a job at which they excel. Admittedly Tigershark AX-1-0s with their twin linked heavy railguns are better for this because they are much cheaper compared to the Manta, whose main purpose is as a dropship, not a titan killer.

Although on topic I would recommend Out Caste. http://www.blacklibrary.com/Blog/out-caste.html