Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Kain wrote:
- snip -

Which is why when push comes to shove, Humans are more likely to be supported by the Eldar rather than the Tau. Humans (or their leaders) actually sift through what the Eldar say for grains of truth, unlike the Tau who'd probably dismiss it and anything pertaining to psychic phenomena as superstition or the ramblings of madmen. The latter is true to an extent...but those who master their power are best heeded. Something Humans and Eldar know well, unlike the Tau who probably will never understand.

Spetulhu wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
It is unlikely the Imperial Guard's Warmasters and the Imperial Navy's Lord Admirals (who are ultimately the ones behind Imperial operations) are so naive.

On the other hand, marines really do have massive egos. Sometimes enough so that other IoM forces will defer to their guidance in a particular theater of operations.

They'll probably take the Astartes' advice, but they'd follow their own judgment in the end.

KingDeath wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:


A full Crusade (which is highly unlikely) into the Tau sphere would shatter their Empire - it would be a brutal fight but IMO the Tau simply can't deal with the scale of a full invasion by the Imperium. Its notable that their Astartes "Battle Brothers" have hammered them a number of times recently with the only comprimise being that they were allowed to leave a world targeted by Exterminatatus as they had fought well aginst the Necrons.

The Jericho crusade is a "full crusade" (it is in fact much larger than the Sabbat Worlds Crusade) and it has yet to overcome a single, but heavily reinforced sept. Of course, there are other reasons why the Vel'khan sept is still alive but i do not think that the "one crusade = vanquished Tau Empire" argument can be still uphold. The Tau species is highly united, technologicaly advanced and appears to have significant ressources at it's disposal. While the Tau Empire is no threat to the imperium as a whole, it certainly is a regional power that has to be taken seriously, at least by nearby imperial sectors.

Ahh I know the one you mean - the one in Deathwatch - well thats a rather unusual Crusade through a warp gate with a variety of different enemies and objectives and a dubious logistics train. The Crusades full forces are hardly foccussed on the Sept in quesition ..................

I agree the Tau is a powerful "local" force but a Crusade this size of the Sabbat Worlds one - one source (Lex) says a Billion Guardsmen alone were carried, would crush it - but as I said for various reason - in and out of universe - It ain't gonna happen.

... it's also a moment frozen in time, as it's the setting of an RPG. The reason the Crusade is going nowhere is because it's the scenario in which the PCs can do their thing and, if the GM wants to run the campaign that way, he can write what happens. You can even blend in some Dark Heresy, Only War or Rogue Trader action in the Jericho Reach... or flip it around and play some Black Crusade from the various Chaos-held worlds in the sector.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
I think I would like to see a rendition of the face of an Ethereal, or any other Tau for that matter, the first time they finally realize the scale of the other factions in the galaxy... whether that's the size of the Imperium, the age of the Eldar, the numbers of the Tyranid, the lengths the Necrons have gone to become what they are today, the brutality of the Orks or the cosmic weirdness of Chaos.

Just the look of that Tau experiencing a mind-blowing, pants-gakking revelation like that would be worth so very, very much.

There is a bit like that in the old Last Chancers novel - where the sheer size of a hive worlds population is frantically dismissed as impossible by the Tau officer as he can't comprehend the scale of the Imperium.

The Tau are an interesting Xenos race and I wish GW would do more of them rather than keep spreading out their limited resources in all the wars.............

Also the Kroot likely know more about the size of the Imperium given their mercenary work - but then they keep a number of secrets from the Tau.

A full Crusade (which is highly unlikely) into the Tau sphere would shatter their Empire - it would be a brutal fight but IMO the Tau simply can't deal with the scale of a full invasion by the Imperium. Its notable that their Astartes "Battle Brothers" have hammered them a number of times recently with the only comprimise being that they were allowed to leave a world targeted by Exterminatatus as they had fought well aginst the Necrons.

A Chapter like the Raven Guard foccusing all their efforts on the Tau would also likely bring them to their knees as superior FTL technology coupled with hundreds of Marines carrying out raids on logistical and C+C centres would be virtually unstopable, combine that with a conventional invasion by the Imperial Navy and Guard supported properly by the Mechanicus and its all one way.

Of course thats not going to happen - in universe the Imperium can't spare the resources, out of universe GW are not going to kill off a race.

Its easier to let the Orks and Tryanids occupy them - bit like Inquisitor Vail allowing the Tau to retrieve their wounded as a act of good faith - so sad she did not mention they were infected by Genestealers

Nonsense on the Astartes front. A small-moderate Tau force demolished the Avenging Sons chapter with consumate ease, with the Avenging Sons getting the drop on them in several instances. The Tau then demolished the hell out of the IG that attempted to follow up. See the Tauros campaign.

A single chapter isn't going to wipe them out, or even come close (given that at least one chapter against a smaller force was almost completely wiped out). Even the RG aren't going to do it, given that 'smashing command lines' is pretty much one of the two main Tau tactics.

The Mechanicus is also very warry of the Tau, as the simple hammerhead is capable of taking out a Titan (they lost one during the Damocles crusade against what was effectively 'weaker' Tau units).

 Mr Morden wrote:
one source (Lex) says a Billion Guardsmen alone were carried, would crush it - but as I said for various reason - in and out of universe - It ain't gonna happen.

You keep telling about billions like its a really big number in the universe where single planet's population could count hundreds of billions. Tau have entire supspecie of their race dedicated solely for war - there should be tens of billions of fire warriors in each sept, much like imperial hiveworld PDF should count billions too - even the modern day Earth have seven millions of active duty soldiers despite the time of peace. The only reason they don't have such huge armies everywhere in the fluff is because authors don't want their precious main characters to be too insignificant even if they are something like space marine captain - against such an overwhelming numerical superiority even the plot armour could not hold.

If any Marine chapter which followed the Codex Astartes attacked the Tau Empire then that Marine Chapter would be defeated.

Farsight, during the Damocles Crusade, basically wrote out the whole Codex based on his observations of the Fists of Dorn, using strict adherence to the same tactics laid out in the book to predict the foes movements and crush them. So any chapter following the Codex Astartes instantly has a massive disadvantage. But then, having armies follow such strict guidelines has always been slowed as it makes you predictable.

I have the Taros campaign - like the Damocles Crusade - the whole thing is (from the Imperial POV) badly handled and organised with extremely limited support from the Mechanicus - in fact the book goes nto some detail about the issues in organising and the war and support units that don't join for various reasons.

For instance the AM only grudingly send a few Warhounds and when one is destroyed by a special new Titan killing aircraft pull out.

In the Taros campaign the Astartes and just Scout Titans smashed the Tau armour to pieces - they simply could not handle the two working together until the special aircraft turned up- if the Imperium had had proper air coverto counter the Tau - they would have been unstopable............. the whole campaign shows what the Tau can do, but also shows what happens if the Imperials are not organised and just how important air support is.

Even with total air supperiority the Tau can't break the Marine line defending the pull back from the planet - even with Manta support and no Titans to counter them

Its definately not the full Avenging Sons Chapter by any means - the initial strike is a Single Strike Cruiser, the 2nd Company and elements of the 1st (Terminators) - in the full Invasion there are a total of 3 Companies of Astartes, a single Battlebarge and a pair of Strike Cruisers.

I mentioned billions once (not Keep telling) to contrast the size of the Crusades mentioned - the fragmented one in Deathwatch is MUCh smaller than the Sabbat worlds one - the original assertion was it was bigger.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
one source (Lex) says a Billion Guardsmen alone were carried, would crush it - but as I said for various reason - in and out of universe - It ain't gonna happen.

You keep telling about billions like its a really big number in the universe where single planet's population could count hundreds of billions. Tau have entire supspecie of their race dedicated solely for war - there should be tens of billions of fire warriors in each sept, much like imperial hiveworld PDF should count billions too - even the modern day Earth have seven millions of active duty soldiers despite the time of peace. The only reason they don't have such huge armies everywhere in the fluff is because authors don't want their precious main characters to be too insignificant even if they are something like space marine captain - against such an overwhelming numerical superiority even the plot armour could not hold.

I mentioned billions once (not Keep telling) to contrast the size of the Crusades mentioned - the fragmented one in Deathwatch is MUCh smaller than the Sabbat worlds one - the original assertion was it was bigger.

The problem with having the Tau have these large numbers is as you say you have to just multiply the Imperiums as well - the whole point of theTau military is it is small (in comparative terms), elite and super advanced.................

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
one source (Lex) says a Billion Guardsmen alone were carried, would crush it - but as I said for various reason - in and out of universe - It ain't gonna happen.

You keep telling about billions like its a really big number in the universe where single planet's population could count hundreds of billions. Tau have entire supspecie of their race dedicated solely for war - there should be tens of billions of fire warriors in each sept, much like imperial hiveworld PDF should count billions too - even the modern day Earth have seven millions of active duty soldiers despite the time of peace. The only reason they don't have such huge armies everywhere in the fluff is because authors don't want their precious main characters to be too insignificant even if they are something like space marine captain - against such an overwhelming numerical superiority even the plot armour could not hold.

But there's not, simply because, as we've seen, the Tau aren't that populous.

Also, the modern day Earth is not at a "time of peace". Sure, we're not involved in a World War, but there's a civil war in Syria, the United States alone is involved in 2 declared wars, 1 ongoing cold-war (Korea), and something like 8 different "police actions". Egypt is in turmoil, Israel is in turmoil, there's about a dozen brush-fire wars in Africa, there's an on-again/off-again war on Cyprus between Turkey and Greece, several countries in South America are experiencing degrees of civil conflicts, and nations throughout the Near and Middle East are experiencing civil and social unrest unprecedented in the last century. There are more armed conflicts happening right now across the globe than any other time since the second World War.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The problem with having the Tau have these large numbers is as you say you have to just multiply the Imperiums as well - the whole point of theTau military is it is small (in comparative terms), elite and super advanced.................

Why do people judge armies from the tabletop perspective? Tau armies are small on the table, but likewise necron armies are small too, though and we all heard about countless metal phalanxes they use in the fluff. Damn, even Tyranid armies are small compared to how are they portrayed in the fluff - non even close to "we could sacrifice ten gaunts to kill a single guardsman ans still count is as a victory". Fire Warriors are like Imperial Guard of the Tau Empire - they are vast massive armies, not a small elite forces. They need those large armies to fight their ancient nemesis - Orks which usually attack in billions too.
The main difference between guardsmen and fire warriors, besides equippement quality is that fire warriors usually get proomoted to battlesuit or tank pilots after four years of service, while guardsmen usually don't live that long and those few lucky enough only get promoted to veterans.

The totality of the Tau populace probably does not meet the total count of the Imperial Guard. They're simply *not* that numerous. We are not judging the army from its table-top perspective, but the fluff provided in the Codices.

In those Codices, we are told that the various cadres of Tau soldiers are comparatively small, work under the philosophy of combined arms, and prefer to use hit-and-run or ambush tactics when they can, where they can bring their tactical flexibility and greater mobility to best advantage.

The Tau simply don't have enough planets to have quintillions of soldiers, even counting the Vespid and the Kroot.

 Mr Morden wrote:
Even with total air supperiority the Tau can't break the Marine line defending the pull back from the planet - even with Manta support and no Titans to counter them.

This part was totally a marine plot armour. I mean they used land speeders to repell Manta. Like the Manta haven't like three dozens of LB burstcannons which coud turn land speeders into sieve.
An speaking about titans, they are terrible at countering mantas, as their weapon aren't designed to target aircraft. Not like empty manta is much better against titans - two heavy raliguns are too weak against anything but warhounds, and other manta weapons are only good at dropping void shields. The main way Tau use mantas against titans it though dropping crisis teams loaded with double fusion cannons right on them.

 Mr Morden wrote:
ts definately not the full Avenging Sons Chapter by any means

It was single battle company with the first company support against single Manta-cadre. We currently know quite well how large is Manta-cadre. Marines weren't even heavily outnumbered there - they just made terribly bad decisions. At the end writers need to use plot armour (Barracuds trying to bring down Thunderhawks with burstcannon fire, despite having ion cannons) to rescue their ases


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Psienesis wrote:
The totality of the Tau populace probably does not meet the total count of the Imperial Guard. They're simply *not* that numerous. We are not judging the army from its table-top perspective, but the fluff provided in the Codices.

Not like this matter a lot. Just like Tau can afford to send only a small part of their military to conquer, Imperium also use like 99.99% of his guard to protect his own worlds and reconquer ones it lost, especially in the properly named Time of Ending.

I was not even going to post in this sort of thread (since its usually a my dad can beat up your dad circular argument) but...

The Main reasons the IoM lost Taros was in space, they had to hunt down a Tau Custodian class carrier, and a few smaller ships, that were raiding their supply lines, and ended up destroying several vital transports, including one that had a entire regiment onboard.

The imperials eventually brought down the custodian but not without losses...it had a very cool hunt the bismark feel to it.

And as to the Warhounds smashing Tau armor to pieces...well they were doing well, but since again its from the imperial perspective..they may have fallen for Mont'ka stratagem, they lured the targets for the Ax-1-0 out where they hand the craft on standby for the attack run...its not like they just happened to be in the right place at the right time...its SOP for tau to use the bait and kill maneuver.

I actually really enjoy the taros campaign..since its not 2 huge forces grinding away at each other..its a reasonable size conflict for the size and value of the planet in question, and the forces we nicely balanced, with both sides doing some cool stuff.

Anyway resume.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
The Main reasons the IoM lost Taros was in space, they had to hunt down a Tau Custodian class carrier, and a few smaller ships, that were raiding their supply lines, and ended up destroying several vital transports, including one that had a entire regiment onboard.

This happen simultaneously with the operation Comet, where war was ultimatelly lost due to destruction of the water processing station. Even if this new regiment had arrived on Taros it would probably die of starvation and thirst just like the Tallarnians on the front lines.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I have the Taros campaign - like the Damocles Crusade - the whole thing is (from the Imperial POV) badly handled and organised with extremely limited support from the Mechanicus - in fact the book goes nto some detail about the issues in organising and the war and support units that don't join for various reasons.

For instance the AM only grudingly send a few Warhounds and when one is destroyed by a special new Titan killing aircraft pull out.

In the Taros campaign the Astartes and just Scout Titans smashed the Tau armour to pieces - they simply could not handle the two working together until the special aircraft turned up- if the Imperium had had proper air coverto counter the Tau - they would have been unstopable............. the whole campaign shows what the Tau can do, but also shows what happens if the Imperials are not organised and just how important air support is.

Even with total air supperiority the Tau can't break the Marine line defending the pull back from the planet - even with Manta support and no Titans to counter them

Its definately not the full Avenging Sons Chapter by any means - the initial strike is a Single Strike Cruiser, the 2nd Company and elements of the 1st (Terminators) - in the full Invasion there are a total of 3 Companies of Astartes, a single Battlebarge and a pair of Strike Cruisers.

I mentioned billions once (not Keep telling) to contrast the size of the Crusades mentioned - the fragmented one in Deathwatch is MUCh smaller than the Sabbat worlds one - the original assertion was it was bigger.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:
one source (Lex) says a Billion Guardsmen alone were carried, would crush it - but as I said for various reason - in and out of universe - It ain't gonna happen.

You keep telling about billions like its a really big number in the universe where single planet's population could count hundreds of billions. Tau have entire supspecie of their race dedicated solely for war - there should be tens of billions of fire warriors in each sept, much like imperial hiveworld PDF should count billions too - even the modern day Earth have seven millions of active duty soldiers despite the time of peace. The only reason they don't have such huge armies everywhere in the fluff is because authors don't want their precious main characters to be too insignificant even if they are something like space marine captain - against such an overwhelming numerical superiority even the plot armour could not hold.

I mentioned billions once (not Keep telling) to contrast the size of the Crusades mentioned - the fragmented one in Deathwatch is MUCh smaller than the Sabbat worlds one - the original assertion was it was bigger.

The problem with having the Tau have these large numbers is as you say you have to just multiply the Imperiums as well - the whole point of theTau military is it is small (in comparative terms), elite and super advanced.................

Imperial armor is also hopelessly annihilated in the desert, and the Titans are quickly pulled off planet given how worried the Mechanicus is about the Tau. They in no way baddly maul the Tau lines (quite the reverse actually).

It is also noted that the Tau aren't necessarily interested in wiping out the Imperial armies as well as having much fewer resources to pull from.

A Space Marine chapter can be effective, but it requires the Imperial army to bog the Tau down enough to be effective. Solo they're pretty hoplessly outclassed.

This is also the problem with the Imperium. Should they be able to handedly defeat the Tau even without a giant crusade of epic proportions (which won't happen)? Yes, but their leadership structure is not designed to do this effectively. A good Imperial commander is an utter rarity, for while some worlds don't adhere to this, the vast majority do (and the Imperium as a whole does), due to the fact that leadership is by politics not worth.

It's perfectly okay for an Imperial command to fubar another commander in combat for personal reasons. It is not okay for Tau commanders to do this (the possibly one time we see anything like that happen in the totality of Tau warfare actually doesn't read that way at all if you have read Ender's Game, which that one piece of fluff is so heavily based on to the point I think they must have copied lines verbatim from it, and that is Farsight's trainer sending him to the worst possible warzone).

Get a combined Imperial command that actually functions worth a damn and you could have a fight on. Otherwise it's a perpetually loosing situation for a group unwilling to commit the resources needed for such a campaign given such a piss poor command structure. The Russians only won against the German army due to several factors the Tau aren't yet in danger of (over stretched supply lines, a war on two fronts, someone else supplying the Russians with equipment and know how to get them back in the fight, and the Russian Winter all combining for a perfect storm that still netted over 25 million casualties).

Farly certain if the all the lost transport/supply craft had not been lost, the IoM units would not have required to secure a on planet source of water, no intelligent military conducts a campaign that hinges upon securing local, potentially disabled/destroyed supply assets..its the law of murphy.

Those craft in addition to beans. bullets, and bandages had provisions of drinking water, and that may have been the reason for the crisis leading to Operation Comet, and the loss (again) of a bunch of Elysians (poor guys.)

But my copy of Taros is upstairs and I am lazy

Saying that the Tau can survive a crusade and using the Jericho Reach as an example is a bit strange, isn't it? If I recall correctly, the main enemy in the Jericho Reach is... well, friggin' EVERYONE, not just the Tau. Jericho Reach is like, one giant clusterfudge of Chaos, Tau, Orks, Chaos, Tyrannids popping in, LOTS of Tyrannids popping in, and... well, a ridiculous amount of Tyrannids popping in, if I recall correctly. To say the Tau could survive a big crusade just because they're still active in the Jericho Reach Crusade seems to be ignoring quite a few other factors.

That said, it would probably take a really massive crusade to destroy the Tau. The Damacles Crusade was pretty big and wasn't able to do it, although that was in part due to the tyrannids hopping in (...again). Still, even without the Tyrannids, the crusade had ground to a stalemate and would have needed massive reinforcement to do the killing blow on the Tau.

Perhaps the Imperium could go after the Tau if everything else "calmed down", but honestly, even if the storyline was NOT in stasis and was moving forward, things do not look like they'll calm down. If anything, if the storyline moves forward, things will be even WORSE for the Imperium, as the Hive Fleets arrive, Octarius War ends with super powered orcs or super powered tyrannids gunning for the Imperium, Chaos gets a foothold out of the Eye of Terror as a result of a mostly-successful 13th Black Crusade, more Necron tombs wake up, etc etc.

If anything, if the storyline moves forward, the Imperium, Eldar, and Tau will probably have to team up even more just to survive. The future of the storyline seems to be in favor of the more villainous factions at the moment (besides the Dark Eldar, who are just doing their thing like usual). The Imperium, Eldar, and Tau had better get those battle-brother alliances ready, because it looks like they'll need it.

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
The Russians only won against the German army due to several factors the Tau aren't yet in danger of (over stretched supply lines, a war on two fronts, someone else supplying the Russians with equipment and know how to get them back in the fight, and the Russian Winter all combining for a perfect storm that still netted over 25 million casualties).

But this is precisely what is going to happen to the space commies eventually.

1) Overstretched supply lines - comparatively inefficient FTL (if the Necrons couldn't get around non-psychic FTL limitations, it is unlikely the Tau could).

2) War on two fronts - the Tau is already juggling its cold war with the Imperium with attacks from Necrons, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
1) Overstretched supply lines - comparatively inefficient FTL (if the Necrons couldn't get around non-psychic FTL limitations, it is unlikely the Tau could).

2) War on two fronts - the Tau is already juggling its cold war with the Imperium with attacks from Necrons, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids.

1) Tau have a vey good logistics. As their FTL is too slow they start to send supplies and reinforcements even before their main fleet reach the destination, and comm beacons help redirect them on the fly. Tau successfully fought Orks in space even before they had any FTL.
2) You missing fights with wars - those are different things.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
1) Overstretched supply lines - comparatively inefficient FTL (if the Necrons couldn't get around non-psychic FTL limitations, it is unlikely the Tau could).

2) War on two fronts - the Tau is already juggling its cold war with the Imperium with attacks from Necrons, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids.

1) Tau have a vey good logistics. As their FTL is too slow they start to send supplies and reinforcements even before their main fleet reach the

I doubt if such a system would cope with a trans-galactic campaign...

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
1) Overstretched supply lines - comparatively inefficient FTL (if the Necrons couldn't get around non-psychic FTL limitations, it is unlikely the Tau could).

2) War on two fronts - the Tau is already juggling its cold war with the Imperium with attacks from Necrons, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids.

1) Tau have a vey good logistics. As their FTL is too slow they start to send supplies and reinforcements even before their main fleet reach the

I doubt if such a system would cope with a trans-galactic campaign...

Fortunately for the Tau they are not a pan-galactic power. Any war in their territory would be small enough geographically to allow thier system to work.

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Psienesis wrote:
The totality of the Tau populace probably does not meet the total count of the Imperial Guard. They're simply *not* that numerous. We are not judging the army from its table-top perspective, but the fluff provided in the Codices.

Not like this matter a lot. Just like Tau can afford to send only a small part of their military to conquer, Imperium also use like 99.99% of his guard to protect his own worlds and reconquer ones it lost, especially in the properly named Time of Ending.

It matters a great deal, because all worlds are His worlds and, eventually, they will all be brought into His light and purged utterly of the Xeno filth that may currently inhabit it. It is the manifest destiny of Humanity to rule the stars unopposed.

Jefffar wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
1) Overstretched supply lines - comparatively inefficient FTL (if the Necrons couldn't get around non-psychic FTL limitations, it is unlikely the Tau could).

2) War on two fronts - the Tau is already juggling its cold war with the Imperium with attacks from Necrons, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids.

1) Tau have a vey good logistics. As their FTL is too slow they start to send supplies and reinforcements even before their main fleet reach the

I doubt if such a system would cope with a trans-galactic campaign...

Fortunately for the Tau they are not a pan-galactic power. Any war in their territory would be small enough geographically to allow thier system to work.

And thus, the Tau are not really capable of being a true galactic power. A regional power perhaps, but that is it.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

Jefffar wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 Mezmerro wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
1) Overstretched supply lines - comparatively inefficient FTL (if the Necrons couldn't get around non-psychic FTL limitations, it is unlikely the Tau could).

2) War on two fronts - the Tau is already juggling its cold war with the Imperium with attacks from Necrons, Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids.

1) Tau have a vey good logistics. As their FTL is too slow they start to send supplies and reinforcements even before their main fleet reach the

I doubt if such a system would cope with a trans-galactic campaign...

Fortunately for the Tau they are not a pan-galactic power. Any war in their territory would be small enough geographically to allow thier system to work.

And thus, the Tau are not really capable of being a true galactic power. A regional power perhaps, but that is it.

One that has the proper makings for a very slow to build large empire.

Unlike the Germans, the Tau move their factories with them. After conquering an area they settle it, bring in full manufacturing capability, and then branch out after everything is stable. They don't just aimlessly blitzkrieg in farther and farther. Their advances are very controlled, to the point they could capture more then they do, but don't due to a conservative philosophy in this area.

Farsight, for example, has manufacturing abilities coupled with occasionally getting blueprints or prototypes smuggled to him which he then builds up using "resources" that were designed to be there for his expansion. In a real sense, the Tau don't have to stage a ton of stuff at a few key main worlds and then launch out, the new spheres form the basis for the next launch out. Slow but effective.

It doesn't enable a large power quickly, but it means that your supply lines are not hopelessly stretched beyond imagine due to galactic conquest.

Will the Tau ever be a major player? Doubtful, it would take away from some of the fun of the army (every other army is a galactic power house of some sort, kind of fun having the little blue engine that could in a way).

 Maniac_nmt wrote:
- snip -

But as it gets larger and larger, the Tau will inevitably draw the attention of the other galactic powers. And that's what will destroy them: the entire galaxy turning on an upstart. I'm not saying everyone will ally with the Imperium against the Tau, but rather the pressure will steadily increase to a point similar to that which led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:
But as it gets larger and larger, the Tau will inevitably draw the attention of the other galactic powers. And that's what will destroy them: the entire galaxy turning on an upstart. I'm not saying everyone will ally with the Imperium against the Tau, but rather the pressure will steadily increase to a point similar to that which led to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Except it won't. Every faction is at constant, unending war with every other faction. This will not change. Ever. If the Imperium, or any other faction, had the capability to deal with the Tau now then they would have done it. It's as simple as that. None of this "yeah... they could totally stomp the Tau, y'know, if they could be bothered" nonsense. No. They ARE bothered, very much. They tried with what resources they could spare at the time and failed miserably. Then the 'Nids show up and almost eat Ultramar. They simply do not have the means due to numerous, closer, more dangerous threats.

The Tau advancing more/expanding their Empire will not change that. All that will happen is that they will require more and more time, effort and resources to deal with that the IoM will never be able to spare. Ever. The Imperium is far closer and far more likely to suffer a "Soviet Union" collapse than the Tau ever were. They're too big and fighting on too many fronts. One of the Tau's strengths at present is their modest size and localised cluster of territory. This is also why they can afford to field a comparatively advanced, elite military. If they were the size of the IoM, I doubt they'd still be able to have all their Fire Warriors so impressively armed and armoured, or so many of their regiments fully mechanised with full Battlesuit and air support etc. They'll increasingly come to rely on auxiliaries with weapons and armour closer to IG standard.

Tau just don't have the time frame to become a advanced threat. With the tyranids moving in on the Milky Way and Imotekh heading their way future looks bleak.

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Tau just don't have the time frame to become a advanced threat. With the tyranids moving in on the Milky Way and Imotekh heading their way future looks bleak.

THIS. Just this. If its not the Imperium to do them in, it's either the 'nids or the 'crons.

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Tau just don't have the time frame to become a advanced threat. With the tyranids moving in on the Milky Way and Imotekh heading their way future looks bleak.

THIS. Just this. If its not the Imperium to do them in, it's either the 'nids or the 'crons.

Farsight's scientists developed a toxin which poisoned and destroyed a Tyranid fleet. So in their second encounter, the Tau came up with a more efficient and successful method of defeating the Tyranids than the Imperium had in the countless wars it has had with Tyranids.

As for the Necrons, that remains to be seen.

And the Nice will have developed an immunity to that toxin.

The Imperium figured out quickly that using bioweapons on Nice was a baaaaaaad idea.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Admiral Valerian wrote:

 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
Tau just don't have the time frame to become a advanced threat. With the tyranids moving in on the Milky Way and Imotekh heading their way future looks bleak.

THIS. Just this. If its not the Imperium to do them in, it's either the 'nids or the 'crons.

Farsight's scientists developed a toxin which poisoned and destroyed a Tyranid fleet. So in their second encounter, the Tau came up with a more efficient and successful method of defeating the Tyranids than the Imperium had in the countless wars it has had with Tyranids.

As for the Necrons, that remains to be seen.

I believe every Battle the Tau have fought alone against the Necrons, they have lost.