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Those lovely looking Morat teasers grabbed my attention so I thought I'd try building a list in anticipation.


The plan is to run a TAGlight list using the super sexy Sogarat with a simple Vanguard Link for backup and orders. I've also come up with a second option which drops a couple of Vans from the link to make space for a day ruining, smile wiping Rasyat. I'm torn between the two. The Rasyat is scary as hell, especially at 150pts, but he sacrifices an order, steals orders from the Soga and takes a considerable bite out of the Van Link. That said, the Soga has his Lieut Order and the HMG isn't as much of an order sponge as the Feuerbach.

Well, anyway, here is list one for your consideration:

Combined Army - Morat Aggression Force | 6 models
________________________________________________________
Sogarat Feuerbach Lt (70|2)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Morat Combi (16|0)
________________________________________________________
150/150 points | 2/3 swc

And list two, which I'm leaning towards but have reservations about:

Combined Army - Morat Aggression Force | 5 models
________________________________________________________
Sogarat HMG Lt (67|2.5)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Morat Combi (16|0)
Rasyat Combi (35|0)
________________________________________________________
150/150 points | 2.5/3 swc

Woah, woah - theres a Morat starter pack now?

I've found Vanguards aren't all that great, and I reckon if your gonna drop a Rasyat it might as well take something more beefy than a Combi-Rifle.

Have you considered a Preta link? Thats some cheap orders for your Sogarat, and you can use whatever to proxy for the... Preta handler chick as she doesn't have a model yet. Then if the Sogarat dies... just let the Pretas run wild and free as nature intended

But then again, I've only had like 5 games and I'm officially the worst player in New Zealand as of today so what do I know >_>

Well it's in production, that image is one of the previews from GenCon.

I kind of built my lists based on the advice Mulciber's Morat Guide to Supremacy Tactica. Definitely worth a read and hopefully Rev will bring it over to Dakka before long.

I considered a Hungries/Oznat link for cheap orders but I felt it would be a false economy as it would make the majority of my force close combat orientated. I know that is a particularly hard style of play to master and I'm sure it's beyond my reach.

The Vanguard might be a little on the expensive side and all but Mulciber seems to speak of them quite favourably as link team order monkeys. I like his comment about 'the shoulders of grunts'. Looks like he'd always try and run them with an HMG but their just isn't room in my list for such trinkets. What is it you don't like about them exactly? The more information I have the better a decision I can make, your experience is valuable to me as I have absolutely none.

Speaking of the Ras, Mulciber again said very nice things about this option. He even likes the basic format version that I have taken in that list. I kind of see this option as a sledgehammer choice. You drop it in and use the brilliant CC ability to smash through one or two of opponents units. Even if he doesn't last any longer than that you could have crippled your opponents plans by removing a valuable unit or some much needed orders. Ideally I'd run the Spitfire, drop him somewhere pleasant and blast the opponent from a second direction, but there just isn't the points. You suggest taking a better loadout, where would you take the points from?

Thanks for the reply and advice! Sorry it took a while to get round to a reply.

They're 16 points, but you don't really get anything from that over a cheaper dude except religious.

Religious is nice, but if your using it, you've probably already lost.

I've never used a link team in my life though so if thats the main use for them I'm hardly the dude to get advice from =/

Close Combat is very risky. Someone (here?) once said that it can be easily 'spoilt' by a bad roll, and that sums it up very well. Its not stopped, its outright spoiled.

I agree that the price can be steep for Vanguard but Morat/Religious could be really intense if the Soga goes down. It means I don't loose a single order and I get to elect a new Lieutenant for free. Sure, I'd rather have a cheaper unit without it but it's a silver lining and very fluffy to boot.

With link team rules added in it really means that I still have a fighting chance to win. The rules are here. Not bad. right? It turns those Vans into an awesome secondary platform rather than just cheerleaders, I can throw the occasional order there way and have the whole group move up with the Soga.

You've definitely given me something to chew over in terms of CC being so risky. I'd really like to hear a few more opinions on that subject actually so if anyone is considering chiming in then please do. I love the idea of throwing down a Ras to mix things up and I am aware of the risk but maybe it's too much of a risk at 150pts when it sacrifices a lot of the link strength and 1/6th of my order pool. It's a tough call... If I was going to use him I think I'd have to throw a lot of orders at him until he served his purpose or died then swap back to my main force.

Maybe I should go with the 5 man Van link and buy a Ras just to try out a few times as an extra option?

Looks like a lot of fun, and characterful! Like some kind of CA special teams operation, which they send into low survival-probability engagements (with missions that need to be completed at all costs).

Pacific. Mate. You just sold me a Rasyat.

That concept really fits the Rasyat description as they are dropped in to test and exploit enemy weaknesses. Yes it's risky but I'm going to enjoy it a lot whether I get destroyed or not. Decision made methinks. Thanks, dude!

Ras looks amazing, I've just got one but haven't put the guy together yet. Opted for the spitfire for maximum firepower

A big problem with Close Combat is that if you finally do get there, and then the opponent sees anything else happen, he can simply ARO - Dodge and escape from it and theres nothing you can do to stop him. It's the first time I've seen a rule in this game that I outright disagreed with.

So if you *do* get into CC, generally its a good idea to start punching unless its in some isolated corner

 Dakkamite wrote:
A big problem with Close Combat is that if you finally do get there, and then the opponent sees anything else happen, he can simply ARO - Dodge and escape from it and theres nothing you can do to stop him. It's the first time I've seen a rule in this game that I outright disagreed with.

Well no, there is something you can do to stop him - punch him. To dodge out of CC you need to make a F2F roll using your PH value instead of your CC value against your opponents CC value. So if you have a high CC you've got a good chance of keeping him there by beating his attempts to disengage in the F2F roll. You don't simply roll against your PH - it's always a F2F roll in CC. As soon as you are in base to base contact, all actions are F2F rolls.

Dodging is a big choice in CC. You might succeed, but it's a lower chance generally. You might get KO'd. So do you take the lower chance to disengage, or the higher change to potentially shoot them in the face with your pistol? Either way, your opponent can stop you doing either by simply beating you in the F2F roll.

If the enemy in question is dodging as an ARO to a third model's action, theres no face to face roll. At least thats what my opponents at the FLGS think, plus the 4chan geeks I asked

If you can show me how this is not the case you'll make my day

How is this third model interacting with them?

Even if you are in CC with multiple enemies, they still need to beat your single attack with their Dodge roll as a face to face roll. However, if you win the CC round against multiple opponents, you can only strike one of them as you only had one attack. If any opponents opponents win, only those opponents that won get the effect of their action, be it a disengage or an attack.

Even in 1v1 CC, all rolls are face to face rolls, as everyone in CC is considered to have 360 LoF to everyone else in the combat.

I can't find any way for anyone in CC to bypass the face to face roll to make an unopposed Dodge. Even in shooting, Dodge is only done as a reaction to shooting and as part of the actual rule itself, it states it is made as a face to face roll against BS, CC, PH or Forward Observer skills.

I'd actually ask for citation where it says you can Dodge without a face to face roll, or maybe someone more knowledgeable than me can step in, because I seriously cannot find any situation where Dodge would be allowed to be made without a face to face roll. It's actually the whole point of the rule itself - as a way to react to an offensive action when you can't or don't want to react to by shooting or a CC attack.

So there's two guys in CC, and one of them dodges out as a reaction to a third guy (not in CC) shooting? If that's what you mean then how about this:
Dodging requires LOF. Figures in CC have LOF limited to base contact. Therefore they don't have LOF to the model, and can't react.

Yeah, I wasn't even considering shooting into combat, which you can't Dodge for the reason above.

I wasn't even talking about that, just a guy near combat shooting at something.

Ah, gotcha. You meant as using the ARO against someone shooting someone else as an excuse to get out of CC without an F2F roll. Yeah, that's still covered by models only having LoS to people in base to base contact, as you said.

Dodging requires LOF. Figures in CC have LOF limited to base contact.

Are you certain of this? Don't get my hopes up only to dash them on the rocks!

 Dakkamite wrote:

Dodging requires LOF. Figures in CC have LOF limited to base contact.

Are you certain of this? Don't get my hopes up only to dash them on the rocks!

Straight from the wiki on both parts (dodge and Line Of Fire, respectively).

Aw yeesss, my Witch Soldiers are happy to hear that.

Until now I'd never found an Infinity rule that didn't seem to follow common sense, glad to see that track record is still unbroken

Cheers man

Good info to know in respect to the list actually. Puts my fears to rest on the Ras too. Anyone have any other issues with the Ras list? If not I'm 100% convinced.

Kind of hoping for an update on the miniatures though, as nice as they are. Is the Spitfire version supposed to be female or is it just skinnier?

Morats are being redone, we saw this at... Gencon? Anyway, once they start with a new starter set, they'll get the rest of the Morats done.

Yeh I mentioned that in the OP but I'm not sure they'll do the whole range.

 Casey's Law wrote:
Yeh I mentioned that in the OP but I'm not sure they'll do the whole range.

They won't do the whole range, but they will do most of the stuff aside from the more "recent" things.

The Kurgat, Yaogat, and Sogarat with HMG are done in the style that we are going to be seeing.

Good info thanks Kan. Sounds like the Ras will be high on the list then. They might even do them the same month or within a month of the starter which would be perfect for me.

By the way, I've just added a poll to the thread. Since there is no rush while I wait on the miniatures being sculpted it seems like a good way to gather as many opinions as possible. I'm pretty much sold on the Ras list clearly but it'll be interesting to see what the poll shows.

If I had to ballpark a resculpt schedule?

1)Vanguard specialist blisters
2)Daturazi boxed set.
3)Suryats--blisters or boxed set.
4)Everything else from the "old" Morats.

I'm glad you follow the releases closely enough to make educated guesses on this stuff. I can't see the matrix like you do, neo.

Your list makes a lot of sense to me but I'm hoping the starter will fall somewhere near the middle of the list to decrease the gap between it and the Ras. You think that's likely? That they'll start releasing them earlier than the starter.

We know the contents of the starter now(Oznat, Raktorak, Sogarat with Feuerbach, 3x Vanguards with combi rifles) and we have a general timeframe for the release, which is "before the end of 2013"(my own personal guess is November).

I can't really predict whether they will or will not release things prior to the MAF starter box but I would not be surprised to see Kornak or one of the 'revised' Suryat released around the boxed set.

Solid! Well I'll bide my time and see what they do when the time comes. If the Ras comes a little later I'll just have to hold my water and wait.

Thanks!