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I ended up talking to my brother in law today and another friend. My brother in law plays BA and our mutual friend plays necrons and tau (yes he chases codexs a bit). After talking for a while we all kind of agreed and hoped that nids will avoid the trend of becoming more shooty. I know this sounds odd but our general impression from the new space marines codex was they added in a bunch of new utility, rules and equipment that aid your army in distanced fighting instead of close combat. So when i look at nids the main shooting capable units i see that do the job for a fair price and/or offer other services are zoan's, hive guard, Devgaunts and flyrants. Zoans and hive guard are dominantly shooting, and of course zoans offer synsapse. Flyrants are fantastic shooters, but with their synapse,mobility, psychic powers and optional Old adv. etc offer a much greater roll than just shooting. I left Carnifex's off due to their costs, trygon primes off due to their deep strike mobility and CC capabilities, Fex's off due to their cost/ poor amount of shot volume at range and warriors off since they seem to get insta gib'd by everything. So my prediction and hope is that gw don't try to conform tyranids to shooting, but allow in abilities that allow them to have a strong CC presence by numbers and MC'S. Don't get me wrong, i think shooting is a important part of our army, and at close ranges something our army does very well, but I don't like the idea of shelling out the points cost to have a MC that is forced into a shooting only roll. In my mind the fact that a creature is a MC lends them very heavily to CC. Things like fear and hammer or wrath never even get to come in to play during a ranged only fight but are something that add up to the high costs of a MC. It is my view and hope that Nids don't fall away from their roots and stay as a CC/mid range army. Am i the only one out there who feels this way? I don't claim to be a 40k expert or a Nid know it all, i simply don't see this army being brought into line with an edition that favors ranged combat so heavily. Does anyone else have an opinion on this? I personally am hoping for plenty of rules to speed up the army and allow assaults out of deep strikes.

Ok... So just because space marines got some shooting buffs, apparently it's a 6th edition trend to make all armies codices shootier...
The rules certainly favour shooting more than they did in 5th edition, but that's a pretty extreme statement.
There have been like what, 6 6th edition codexes so far I think? Half of them were already shooty armies, so of course they got shooting buffs.
Then you have stuff like Chaos Space Marines who got a mix, which makes sense with what they've already got.
And Demons, who just got crapped on overall.
I also think that Space Marines were primarily a ranged combat army anyway, you generally want the majority of your units (besides assault marines and the like obviously) shooting at the enemy.
I seriously don't think it's a trend for GW to be making armies 'shootier' just because of 6th edition.

 Rotary wrote:
It is my view and hope that Nids don't fall away from their roots and stay as a CC/mid range army.

So if you hope they don't get shootier, why do you think they have roots as a mid-range army?
Also, don't diss Dakkafexes. They are the favoured build of many tyranid players already, I think shooty monstrous creatures are great, due to that variety in what they can do.
After all, why do you need close combat weapons if you can already squash them flat just be trampling on them?

My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

 Peregrine wrote:
My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

You must have been one of those people who hated Half Life because "No living being can produce that much electrcitiy! BAD!" Or Halo because "The Flood is unrealistic, no parasite can function that quickly!"

 Peregrine wrote:
My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

More brilliant ideas from you I see,

On topic

Myself I do not not know what to expect for my dear Nids this edition, its a mixture of dread and hope I suppose. I just pray that noting too insane happens to them

I just want to be able field a variety of lists rather than feel like I'm being pushed towards a single build.

 Gutsnagga wrote:
And Demons, who just got crapped on overall.

You must be referring to different Daemons than the ones I'm aware of.

I have a feeling that Pyrovores are probably going to get buffed. Hard.

 Rotary wrote:
In my mind the fact that a creature is a MC lends them very heavily to CC.

Do you even Riptide ? IMHO, Monstrous Creatures are the most reliable platforms for ranged weapons.

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just want to be able field a variety of lists rather than feel like I'm being pushed towards a single build.

 Gutsnagga wrote:
And Demons, who just got crapped on overall.

You must be referring to different Daemons than the ones I'm aware of.

Fantasy Daemons I suspect...

And while the 6th edition rules prompt many people to make shootier builds, I don't think any of the updated armies themselves were made inherently 'more shooty'. Daemons seem rather assaulted (I'm not too knowledgeable on this book though), CSM have their usual mix of Shooting and CC specialists, DA have always been shooty, Tau have always been even more shooty, and Eldar leaned heavily towards shooting, too (though the new book added previously nonexistent CC wraith-guys). Space Marines seem just more of what they used to be--an army good at shooting that is ok in assault.

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
In my mind the fact that a creature is a MC lends them very heavily to CC.

Do you even Riptide ? IMHO, Monstrous Creatures are the most reliable platforms for ranged weapons.

Some people just want to use their Carnifexes to break things.

Because they want to rip and tear your guts, infantry are small, that means they have small guts, rip and tear!

 Kain wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
In my mind the fact that a creature is a MC lends them very heavily to CC.

Do you even Riptide ? IMHO, Monstrous Creatures are the most reliable platforms for ranged weapons.

Some people just want to use their Carnifexes to break things.

Because they want to rip and tear your guts, infantry are small, that means they have small guts, rip and tear!

Even as Dakkafexes, they still murder Tanks.

Puscifer wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
In my mind the fact that a creature is a MC lends them very heavily to CC.

Do you even Riptide ? IMHO, Monstrous Creatures are the most reliable platforms for ranged weapons.

Some people just want to use their Carnifexes to break things.

Because they want to rip and tear your guts, infantry are small, that means they have small guts, rip and tear!

Even as Dakkafexes, they still murder Tanks.

Still, a crushing claw carnifex just looks really nice and it's a shame they have to sit on a shelf so often.

TBH i do hope gw gets tyranids work in assault instead of making them shooty. If they get it right with the tyranids so they are actually able to make different viable CC builds they might get it right with the other codices that rely on cc (at least in some builds) so that the "cc is dead" dogma may have an end.

One can hope

Kain wrote:I have a feeling that Pyrovores are probably going to get buffed. Hard.

Every 6th edition competitive Nid army is going to include at least 9 Pyrovores. Pyrovore Spam will be the new Necron Flier Spam.

I'm not really bothered what they do with Tyranids, as long as they introduce lots of cool new stuff and rules, and don't nerf too much existing stuff. I mean, people are complaining about how Orks are too shooty and they shouldn't be, yet, throughout this entire edition, I've been playing combat-based Orks and been doing fine.

 The Shadow wrote:

Kain wrote:I have a feeling that Pyrovores are probably going to get buffed. Hard.

Every 6th edition competitive Nid army is going to include at least 9 Pyrovores. Pyrovore Spam will be the new Necron Flier Spam.

I'm not really bothered what they do with Tyranids, as long as they introduce lots of cool new stuff and rules, and don't nerf too much existing stuff. I mean, people are complaining about how Orks are too shooty and they shouldn't be, yet, throughout this entire edition, I've been playing combat-based Orks and been doing fine.

They will be now "Artillery Monstrous Creature" can move and shoot their barrage weapons, also they are t5 with 3W you can take them in squads of 3 and they cost 35p each for a large blast s5ap3 barrage with 36" range or a small blast s4ap1 barrage with the same range. Did i mention the 3+ armor? It will be possible to make them ignore cover (although it wont be baseline).

We've got a "bet how imbalanced pyrvores will be" thread in my clubs forum and that was my bet.

Likan Wolfsheim wrote:

 PrinceRaven wrote:
I just want to be able field a variety of lists rather than feel like I'm being pushed towards a single build.

 Gutsnagga wrote:
And Demons, who just got crapped on overall.

You must be referring to different Daemons than the ones I'm aware of.

Fantasy Daemons I suspect...

And while the 6th edition rules prompt many people to make shootier builds, I don't think any of the updated armies themselves were made inherently 'more shooty'. Daemons seem rather assaulted (I'm not too knowledgeable on this book though), CSM have their usual mix of Shooting and CC specialists, DA have always been shooty, Tau have always been even more shooty, and Eldar leaned heavily towards shooting, too (though the new book added previously nonexistent CC wraith-guys). Space Marines seem just more of what they used to be--an army good at shooting that is ok in assault.

No, I mean 40k daemons,
It was papa Nurgle who crapped on them.

Back on topic, This is basically what I was trying to say. It's more about 6th ed being shootier than the armies themselves being turned shootier.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Peregrine wrote:
My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

I can't tell the intended meaning of this over the internet? Serious or not?

 Mywik wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Kain wrote:I have a feeling that Pyrovores are probably going to get buffed. Hard.

Every 6th edition competitive Nid army is going to include at least 9 Pyrovores. Pyrovore Spam will be the new Necron Flier Spam.

I'm not really bothered what they do with Tyranids, as long as they introduce lots of cool new stuff and rules, and don't nerf too much existing stuff. I mean, people are complaining about how Orks are too shooty and they shouldn't be, yet, throughout this entire edition, I've been playing combat-based Orks and been doing fine.

They will be now "Artillery Monstrous Creature" can move and shoot their barrage weapons, also they are t5 with 3W you can take them in squads of 3 and they cost 35p each for a large blast s5ap3 barrage with 36" range or a small blast s4ap1 barrage with the same range. Did i mention the 3+ armor? It will be possible to make them ignore cover (although it wont be baseline).

We've got a "bet how imbalanced pyrvores will be" thread in my clubs forum and that was my bet.

I'm guessing Anti Air. It would make sense as their weapons are pointing up.

Puscifer wrote:

 Mywik wrote:

 The Shadow wrote:

Kain wrote:I have a feeling that Pyrovores are probably going to get buffed. Hard.

Every 6th edition competitive Nid army is going to include at least 9 Pyrovores. Pyrovore Spam will be the new Necron Flier Spam.

I'm not really bothered what they do with Tyranids, as long as they introduce lots of cool new stuff and rules, and don't nerf too much existing stuff. I mean, people are complaining about how Orks are too shooty and they shouldn't be, yet, throughout this entire edition, I've been playing combat-based Orks and been doing fine.

They will be now "Artillery Monstrous Creature" can move and shoot their barrage weapons, also they are t5 with 3W you can take them in squads of 3 and they cost 35p each for a large blast s5ap3 barrage with 36" range or a small blast s4ap1 barrage with the same range. Did i mention the 3+ armor? It will be possible to make them ignore cover (although it wont be baseline).

We've got a "bet how imbalanced pyrvores will be" thread in my clubs forum and that was my bet.

I'm guessing Anti Air. It would make sense as their weapons are pointing up.

Realistically, I'm expecting a points decrease, Torrent and an extra attack.

But that would be nice too

I would hope that the Harpy would get some loadout changes so that it can carry a gun that it can use against other flyers. Also some special weapon options on the gargoyles would also be nice.

 Peregrine wrote:
My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

I'm gonna guess this was a comment on:

a- 6e codices having Nids being massacred in the fluff
b- being slaughtered too much while playing games using his own Nid armies.

And that the gruff phrasing was due to:

a- not enough coffee
b- not enough hugs
c- both of the above

However, my post may have been due to:

a- not enough sleep

That is all.

 Pouncey wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

I'm gonna guess this was a comment on:

a- 6e codices having Nids being massacred in the fluff
b- being slaughtered too much while playing games using his own Nid armies.

And that the gruff phrasing was due to:

a- not enough coffee
b- not enough hugs
c- both of the above

However, my post may have been due to:

a- not enough sleep

That is all.

Peregrine hates Daemons and Tyranids for not fitting with his vision of 40k. Which as far as I can tell is some boring hard military scifi that's basically Halo minus the Flood.

 Kain wrote:

 Pouncey wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
My personal hope is that GW refuses to have Tyranids conform to this edition by removing them from the game entirely.

I'm gonna guess this was a comment on:

a- 6e codices having Nids being massacred in the fluff
b- being slaughtered too much while playing games using his own Nid armies.

And that the gruff phrasing was due to:

a- not enough coffee
b- not enough hugs
c- both of the above

However, my post may have been due to:

a- not enough sleep

That is all.

Peregrine hates Daemons and Tyranids for not fitting with his vision of 40k. Which as far as I can tell is some boring hard military scifi that's basically Halo minus the Flood.

But they're so cuuuuute!

Where's that drawing of chibi-gaunts in a basket?

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_AfIQ2AogLLc/TMhlHO0wf7I/AAAAAAAAAPs/YO1vTSPYvBU/s1600/Cutenids.gif" border="0" />

 phatonic wrote:

I will admit that GIF is funny, made me chuckle quite a bit

Personally for me they need a smooth balance line between 'Nidzilla lists and swarms, and when I say thins I mean both types of list should have the same amount of pro's and cons, as some people like playing 'Nidzilla and some people like playing the swarm but atm imo because of the viability of them all lists are Tervigon spam complete with Flyrant's, (there needs to be a reason to take ground Tyrants as well imo) so I think GW need to think on making the swarm at about the same standard as 'Nidzilla, one difference could be that swarms could be way faster than MC but you can still take a lot of MC though..

Just my thoughts.

 Kain wrote:

Puscifer wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 AtoMaki wrote:

 Rotary wrote:
In my mind the fact that a creature is a MC lends them very heavily to CC.

Do you even Riptide ? IMHO, Monstrous Creatures are the most reliable platforms for ranged weapons.

Some people just want to use their Carnifexes to break things.

Because they want to rip and tear your guts, infantry are small, that means they have small guts, rip and tear!

Even as Dakkafexes, they still murder Tanks.

Still, a crushing claw carnifex just looks really nice and it's a shame they have to sit on a shelf so often.

What it needs is a gun that shoots fists. It'll still count as a melee attack.

Hmmm, really hoping that Alpha Warrior's will be purchasable as psykers, being able to add a psker with gate to infinity (the power that allows the psyker and his unit to DS - cannot find rule book atm) to a brood would be very nice. Have always thought it strange that the Hive Tyrant couldn't be purchased as a lvl 2 psyker.

This trend you speak of is more of whatcodex got picked. Eldar tau and sm were always shooty. Assault sm always sucked balls lol csm is shooty only because noone has the balls or brains to do anything but helldrake spam.

Nids and orks might get a shooty buff but I highly doubt assault will vanish.

This reminds me of something I read in an old White Dwarf. It was talking about how Tyranids in Epic don't actually have the same objectives as other armies. For instance, they don't care about holding objectives, they just care about murdering things for the most part. If Nids had different objectives, I think that'd be cool.

That's just based on the title of your thread though. If Nids don't get more shooty, I wouldn't complain, but I think it's good that they're effective at both chopping and shooting things. More diversity in army builds isn't a bad thing. I do think they should at least be able to assault out of outflanking with Genestealers though. Those poor monsters can't do a damn thing anymore.