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 Brother SRM wrote:
They tend to look like this; even if the conversion is really well executed and integrated into the design well, the weird gap in the middle looks silly:

What if it were more attached to the front ramp and the dozer blade simply folded out of the way of the hatch when it opened?

 Ailaros wrote:
But obliterators are demons...

... and so is every non-tracked vehicle in the CSM arsenal. You can also make any tracked vehicle a demon by taking the demon upgrade from the vehicle upgrade section...

... which the hellbrute doesn't have access to...

... which is another typo.

Sorry, I forgot about the Oblits counting as Daemons. Point was more that it was a Marine merging with the Dreadnought body.

Hellbrutes are literally Chaos Dreadnoughts with a different name.

 Brother SRM wrote:
Hellbrutes are literally Chaos Dreadnoughts with a different name.

And the only real change in fluff was how they eventually merge with the machine, but they didn't mention it becoming more daemonic.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Hellbrutes are literally Chaos Dreadnoughts with a different name.

And the only real change in fluff was how they eventually merge with the machine, but they didn't mention it becoming more daemonic.

Which is why I was pointing out that it wasn't a Daemon Engine.

I think the dozer on a landraider could be one piece, but with an extreme depression in the middle.

ClockworkZion wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Hellbrutes are literally Chaos Dreadnoughts with a different name.

And the only real change in fluff was how they eventually merge with the machine, but they didn't mention it becoming more daemonic.

Which is why I was pointing out that it wasn't a Daemon Engine.

When they take the CSM out of the hellbrute, they have to chain the hellbrute to the wall so that a part-flesh, part-machine warpfuelled creature doesn't go on a rampage and kill everybody. Just like how they have to chain up demon engines.

Fluffwise, they're a demon engine with an additional CSM plugged in for lols. Rules-wise, they're exactly the same as a demon engine (AV12, can't take vehicle upgrades, has strange special rules, etc.), except that they forgot to actually give them the demon rule. If you really want to make the case that they're not a demon engine, but just a regular CSM vehicle, then you've got to admit that they forgot to give the hellbrute access to the upgrades that non-demon CSM vehicles get to take.

Either way, it's a blatant mistake. Like not giving the SM land raider the option of dozer blades, like all the other raiders can take.

 Ailaros wrote:

ClockworkZion wrote:

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Brother SRM wrote:
Hellbrutes are literally Chaos Dreadnoughts with a different name.

And the only real change in fluff was how they eventually merge with the machine, but they didn't mention it becoming more daemonic.

Which is why I was pointing out that it wasn't a Daemon Engine.

When they take the CSM out of the hellbrute, they have to chain the hellbrute to the wall so that a part-flesh, part-machine warpfuelled creature doesn't go on a rampage and kill everybody. Just like how they have to chain up demon engines.

Fluffwise, they're a demon engine with an additional CSM plugged in for lols. Rules-wise, they're exactly the same as a demon engine (AV12, can't take vehicle upgrades, has strange special rules, etc.), except that they forgot to actually give them the demon rule. If you really want to make the case that they're not a demon engine, but just a regular CSM vehicle, then you've got to admit that they forgot to give the hellbrute access to the upgrades that non-demon CSM vehicles get to take.

Either way, it's a blatant mistake. Like not giving the SM land raider the option of dozer blades, like all the other raiders can take.

I don't recall people entombed in Dreadnoughts being removed from them. As far as I recall the Dread is what's basically keeping them alive.

If it makes you feel better, perhaps he's not a Daemon because the crazy Marine is fighting against the Daemonic Possession.

And I don't see it as a mistake. Either of those really. Not everything needs every rule you know. And C:SM Landraiders are especially not a mistake (because that implies someone overlooking an option) but a deliberate choice. Likely to further increase differences between different Marine books.

Yeah, they have to chain up the non-CSM part of the hellbrute when the CSM isn't in it. It's right in the fluff.

Of course, you could make the argument that it's a demon without demon, or a vehicle without vehicle upgrades ON PURPOSE, but what would that purpose be? To make a unit that doesn't fit in the rest of the codex? To make a unit that's just worse?

If all they wanted to to was to make the hellbrute different than other dreadnoughts, then simply giving them the demon rule would have fixed that right up.

You can have your dozer blades when Chaos gets the same 12 man capacity on our Land Raiders that the Loyalists have.

 Castiel wrote:
You can have your dozer blades when Chaos gets the same 12 man capacity on our Land Raiders that the Loyalists have.

Actually even Vanilla Marines lost the 12 man capacity on the Phobos. I'm not sure about SWs but afaik everyone else has 10 man Land Raiders now.

 Castiel wrote:
You can have your dozer blades when Chaos gets the same 12 man capacity on our Land Raiders that the Loyalists have.

How limited your vision is. Crusaders get a transport capacity of 16.

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, they have to chain up the non-CSM part of the hellbrute when the CSM isn't in it. It's right in the fluff.

Of course, you could make the argument that it's a demon without demon, or a vehicle without vehicle upgrades ON PURPOSE, but what would that purpose be? To make a unit that doesn't fit in the rest of the codex? To make a unit that's just worse?

If all they wanted to to was to make the hellbrute different than other dreadnoughts, then simply giving them the demon rule would have fixed that right up.

That was also part of the OLD dreadnought too, where they had to chain both dreadnought and rider. Still wasn't a Daemon Engine.

To be honest though I wouldn't mind it having Daemonic because it's pretty poor with no way of reaching the enemy reliably.

 ZebioLizard2 wrote:

 Ailaros wrote:
Yeah, they have to chain up the non-CSM part of the hellbrute when the CSM isn't in it. It's right in the fluff.

Of course, you could make the argument that it's a demon without demon, or a vehicle without vehicle upgrades ON PURPOSE, but what would that purpose be? To make a unit that doesn't fit in the rest of the codex? To make a unit that's just worse?

If all they wanted to to was to make the hellbrute different than other dreadnoughts, then simply giving them the demon rule would have fixed that right up.

That was also part of the OLD dreadnought too, where they had to chain both dreadnought and rider. Still wasn't a Daemon Engine.

To be honest though I wouldn't mind it having Daemonic because it's pretty poor with no way of reaching the enemy reliably.

I can agree Daemonic would make it more likely to get across the field but honestly it's in the same boat as the loyalist Dreads on that count. Frankly it's an issue that almost all of the short range/CC-Dreads have.