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I've been thinking about grabbing some long range artillery for my IG army, seeing as how much I enjoy lobbing shells at my enemy from across the map. I've one basilisk already and was planning on finishing at least one squad of them. However, the Manticore also looks pretty nice too.

Regarding the minimum/maximum distance I prefer the Manticore since the minimal distance is 12" less then the Basilisk and the maximum distance is more then enough for a non-Apocolypse game.

Another thing that makes me like the Manticore is that it isn't open-topped that boosts it staying capacity a lot better then the Basilisk. The amount of times I've lost a Basalisk thanks to their open-topped debuff is enough for me to open a scrapyard just for them.

However, the firepower for the Manticore is, while at a whopping S10, only AP4 which deters me a little. My thought process for this is "Why have that much firepower if it can't reliably hurt a Marine?" This is where I like the Basilisk more with it's AP3. While only being slightly weaker then the Manticore, knowing that those Marines won't be getting those armor saves is a comforting thought.

Also, the Basilisk has unlimited shots with its primary weapon while the Manticore only has four for its primary weapon. For me, that's a big plus.

Or should I just make a Deathstrike Missile Laucher for the lulz? (I'm joking about this one)

Manticores are just pure win. I'd default to a Manticore FIRST. The unlimited shots, beleive me, is an illusory issue.

Minimum distance doesn't mean what you think it means. A trip to the rulebook is in order.

As for which is better, neither has Ap2 or 1, so neither is that great against vehicles. Meanwhile, the only difference between the Ap is space marines, but if you really cared about that, you wouldn't take either - you'd take a colossus, which also isn't that great against vehicles, but it has both Ap3 AND ignores cover.

If you're doing a one-on-one comparison, then of course the manticore is better for all the obvious reasons. However, the basilisk does win when you think bigger, because it can be taken in squads of three. That means you can't spend more than about 500 points on manticores (so, a rather secondary part of your army), while you can spend up to 1125 on basilisks, which is the kind of spamming ability you need for a serious artillery list.

The main problem, though, is that you can also spam medusas and colossuses which do what you'd want the basilisk to do... only better. So, if you want to spend fewer than 240 points on artillery, a pair of manticores is the way to go. If you want to spend more than that, then break out the medusa and the colossus in nice big squads of them.

As for when to take the basilisk... umm... well, it does strip HP relatively cheaply, but at only 1HP per shot, you're way overpaying for the privelage, which means that it's about shooting at infantry... but it doesn't ignore TEq armor... or cover saves... so... umm...

yeah...

 Ailaros wrote:
As for which is better, neither has Ap2 or 1, so neither is that great against vehicles.

Only because you incorrectly focus on one aspect of the "chance to kill" equation and ignore everything else. Lacking AP 1/2 hurts your chances, but STR 9/10 barrage can give you a better overall chance of killing a target than shooting AP 1/2 at front armor. And then of course there's HP removal, damage results other than "explodes" crippling a target at least temporarily, etc.

Meanwhile, the only difference between the Ap is space marines, but if you really cared about that, you wouldn't take either - you'd take a colossus, which also isn't that great against vehicles, but it has both Ap3 AND ignores cover.

Is this a joke? The Colossus and Basilisk/Manticore aren't even in the same category against vehicles. Comparing the Basilisk/Manticore to the Colossus like that is giving seriously misleading advice.

However, the basilisk does win when you think bigger, because it can be taken in squads of three.

So what? Three-model squadrons (which you have to take to beat the Manticore's average shot count) are a lot of points tied up in a single unit that has to deal with the multiple-shot barrage rules. In the real world the ability to take full-strength squadrons is rarely an appealing choice.

As for when to take the basilisk... umm... well, it does strip HP relatively cheaply, but at only 1HP per shot, you're way overpaying for the privelage, which means that it's about shooting at infantry... but it doesn't ignore TEq armor... or cover saves... so... umm...

The point you're missing is that the Basilisk may not be the best against any particular target, but it's at least decent against most of them. Sure, that Colossus battery is great against marines in cover, but it's an expensive paperweight if you need to kill vehicles while the Basilisks can make a meaningful contribution. Sure, the bastion breacher Medusa is a much better tank killer, but it's an expensive and fragile paperweight if you need to clear ADL campers off an objective. Etc. Would I take the Basilisk in every list? No, but it definitely has a place.

Medusa and Griffons

2 Griffons will out perform a Collosus against most targets including marines. Griffons are half the cost of a collosus so figure 2 armor saves for every 1 dead marine. 2 Armor saves is not as good as 1 dead marine , but the griffons have better accuracy. With a simplified 5/9the to hit v 1/3 it's 10/27ths of a dead marine for the griffon and 9/27ths of a dead marine for the Collosus.

I don't think the Collosus is viable unless there is a DA powerfield librarian behind them to prescience and give a 4++ invo, but even then I think 2 or 3 medusa would inspire more hatred and fear.

Multiplpile barrage without griffon tl or prescience is futile.

I would take the manticore, but look at your most common opponents first. If they are mostly marines or other elite armies (say 66% or more) the ap3 of the basilisk will make a huge difference against troops, while S9 can still hurt all the manticore's main targets.

Against vehicles take a Manticore

Against Infantry try the Colossus

Thanks for the replies guys! Regarding the Colossus, I have thought about taking them before but what stopped me was that when I looked at my list I had plenty of stuff that can deal with infantry already. Ignoring cover is a great boon, don't get me wrong, but I'm a firm believe of "drown your enemy with dice". Also, what I am looking for is a long ranged heavy hitter that can be generally dangerous to most targets.

 Ailaros wrote:
Minimum distance doesn't mean what you think it means. A trip to the rulebook is in order.

Ah crud, I've forgotten about that. Thanks for reminding me.

This might not be the best idea for me, but it can't possibly be the worst mistake I will make...right?

My local meta is a lot of foot armies, mostly marines, so I run a Colossus and a (separate) 2 gun basilisk battery. The the colossus targets troops, while the basilisks (and Lascannons in the squads/melta vets) target armor. This works well for me and the marine players have found a special loathing for my colossus. But this is just my local meta, YMMV.

I remember reading about something happening below the minimal range, but I can't find it. Am I just going crazy or is it there in the BRB?

It's in the rules for barrage weapons. Barrage weapons work exactly the same as blast weapons, except you don't need LOS to place the template, casualties originate from the center of the template, and if they have a minimum range, they're less accurate if you shoot within that minimum range. Those are the only three exceptions.

Go full Forgeworld, not only can you take up to 3 Manticores per HS slot, but you can decide to fire an alternate munition that is AP 2, if memory serves.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Go full Forgeworld, not only can you take up to 3 Manticores per HS slot, but you can decide to fire an alternate munition that is AP 2, if memory serves.

There was definitely a tradeoff for that. But manticore batteries are indeed fun for the whole family.

 Bobthehero wrote:
Go full Forgeworld, not only can you take up to 3 Manticores per HS slot, but you can decide to fire an alternate munition that is AP 2, if memory serves.

But that'll cost me my liver and kidney. I like my liver and kidney.

Personally, I do not understand why take a Manticore?
AP4 is so bad.
Ok, you can kill: Avenger, Nec Warrior, Fire Warrior, which are quite often played.
OK, S10 is better to remove some HP, but it does not change that much from the Basilisk and you still have to be very lucky to destroy the vehicle.

Manticore is too much situational.

On the other hands, Basilisk allow much more target.
And as you won't kill vehicle with neither Basilisk nor Manticore, then it's better to be able to fire on as much as possible infantry target.

Then Basilisk vs Colossus, basically trading "Instant Death" for "ignore cover".
In my environment, we do not have that much area terrain, and I did kill some Rune Priests and Crisis with it, so I prefer the Basilisk, but if I can understand the interest of removing cover save (night, area terrain, stealth, shroud, Jink...)

The Manticore really shines when you abuse some allies. A Rune Priest or Librarian casting Prescience really ups the lethality of the platform. This is a complete outlier, but I once did 28 wounds to Coteaz and friends right at the beginning of 6ed. 28 STR10 wounds. Who cares if it's ap4? I got First Blood and StW on the first turn. Pretty brutal.

 Ailaros wrote:
It's in the rules for barrage weapons. Barrage weapons work exactly the same as blast weapons, except you don't need LOS to place the template, casualties originate from the center of the template, and if they have a minimum range, they're less accurate if you shoot within that minimum range. Those are the only three exceptions.

4 exceptions.

Fires as BS0 if in minimum range or no los.

Always does pie plate flips instead of completely new rolls to hit on any pies beyond the 1st.

 gnoise wrote:

 Bobthehero wrote:
Go full Forgeworld, not only can you take up to 3 Manticores per HS slot, but you can decide to fire an alternate munition that is AP 2, if memory serves.

But that'll cost me my liver and kidney. I like my liver and kidney.

All you need is the book, really.

Ignoring cover is just such a multiplier.

Nothing bends over Firewarrior castles quite as well as 3 Manticores. You'd think that they aren't all that accurate, but you'd be thinking wrong - Multiple Barrage often allows you to "walk" the rounds back on target.

I won't leave home without at least one Manticore at 1,500 points.

Manticores are mandatory in my Sisters army

I love my basilisks because I like TAC lists.