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Lets say I have a Broadside XV-88 on an Aegis Defense Line with Quad Gun. Because of his multi-tracker, instead of firing his HYMP and SMS, can he fire his HYMP and the quad gun?

What do multitrackers allow him to do.

They allow him to fire one additional weapon in the shooting phase. The problem is that in order to fire the quad gun, he has to not shoot his weapon. It's a question of whether or not the Quad gun sets how many weapons he can shoot to 0 and then the multi-tracker adds back one, or if the multi-tracker allowing him to shoot an additional weapon doesn't matter due to how the shooting the quad gun is worded.

Gun Emplacement specifies Weapon, not Weapons. So, he can choose to not fire his SMS in favor of the Quad Gun in addition to his HYMP. The rules for Gun Emplacements does not hinder the use of a Multitracker in any way.

That is the way I read it, though I can't seem to find a different interpretation based off of RAW instead of RAI.

Multi-tracker: A model with a multi-tracker can fire an additional weapon in each Shooting phase.

Gun Emplacement: One model in base contact with the gun emplacement can fire it instead of his own weapon, following the normal rules for shooting.

Seems like a battlesuit with a multi-tracker should be able to fire the quad-gun as well as one of it's own weapon systems.

It's still a question though. If it said one of his weapons it would be clear but because it says his own weapon it could mean any weapon that is his. It also says following the normal rules for shooting which would not include the use of the multi-tracker..... in a game I would ok it but I find it easier to run using the special rules of the codex as they are spelled out, GW being so clear in wording and intent as they are.

The problem with the quad gun is that it's written in such a way that only takes into account a model with a single weapon, firing a single weapon.
As it stands there's just no way to tell if it can be fired in addition to something else.

 grendel083 wrote:
The problem with the quad gun is that it's written in such a way that only takes into account a model with a single weapon, firing a single weapon.
As it stands there's just no way to tell if it can be fired in addition to something else.

Not necessarily.

Multitracker is also a rule that assumes a model can only fire a single weapon and explicitly allows it to fire another. For instance Riptides have Multitrackers, but don'thave three weapons to fire.

Emplacements is written referencing a single weapon, if a model has more and can fire more in a single shooting phase I don't see a RAW conflict, though there is room for a RAI argument.

Quad gun says the model can't shoot any of his own weapons. How does having a multitracker then allow him to shoot weapons?

Problem is, you don't fire a quad gun in place of a single weapon. If it said something like that there would be no problem.
The model can "fire it instead of it's own weapon".
If it can fire two weapons what happens? Is it instead of one weapon?
Is it instead of all weapons?
The way it is written, there's no way to tell.

thedunator wrote:
Quad gun says the model can't shoot any of his own weapons. How does having a multitracker then allow him to shoot weapons?

Orly?

Gun Emplacement: One model in base contact with the gun emplacement can fire it instead of his own weapon, following the normal rules for shooting.

Says weapon, not weapons. Since it is not clear we have to assume that a model that has the ability to fire more than one weapon only gives up one of those weapons to fire the quad-gun. Had it said "weapons" then you would be correct.

thedunator wrote:
Quad gun says the model can't shoot any of his own weapons. How does having a multitracker then allow him to shoot weapons?

Because that's not what the rules for the quadgun say. You should probably at least look at the rule under discussion before trying to weigh in on what it says.

 Portugal Jones wrote:

thedunator wrote:
Quad gun says the model can't shoot any of his own weapons. How does having a multitracker then allow him to shoot weapons?

Because that's not what the rules for the quadgun say. You should probably at least look at the rule under discussion before trying to weigh in on what it says.

Fair enough. So instead of shooting his own weapon, a model can shoot the quad gun. Then the rule for shooting a quad gun doesn't allow models with multiple weapons to fire it, since it specifically indicates the singular "weapon".

You're assuming a conclusion not seemingly supported by the rules. If that's how you really think it works, how about you try quoting the parts that you think support your supposition?

 Portugal Jones wrote:
You're assuming a conclusion not seemingly supported by the rules. If that's how you really think it works, how about you try quoting the parts that you think support your supposition?

My conclusion is based on reading the wording. It says instead of his own weapon, not weapons. So if a model does have multiple weapons that it's allowed to shoot normally, even without a special rule, then you would argue that he's allowed to shoot the quad gun and which ever second weapon he has?

Additional, because the rule says "instead of his own weapon", anytime you would shoot a weapon of you own, you are violating the rule for the quad gun.

thedunator wrote:
Additional, because the rule says "instead of his own weapon", anytime you would shoot a weapon of you own, you are violating the rule for the quad gun.

"I fire the Quad Gun instead of my own weapon, the missiles, additionally I fire my plasma rifle". I fail to see how that can be logically interpreted to be breaking the Quad Gun rules.

Because the rule doesn't specify "instead of firing one of his weapons", it says "instead of his own weapon". The way this is written, it appears that GW only intends single weapon models to fire the quad gun.

thedunator wrote:
Because the rule doesn't specify "instead of firing one of his weapons", it says "instead of his own weapon". The way this is written, it appears that GW only intends single weapon models to fire the quad gun.

That is theoretically possible. They've already ruled that vehicles could not fire Gun Emplacements.

But the missiles are his own weapon, and he's firing the quad gun instead of it, isn't that exactly what the rule states?

Surely this is just a case of Codex (multitracker) overriding BRB (emplaced weapon)?

 Super Ready wrote:
Surely this is just a case of Codex (multitracker) overriding BRB (emplaced weapon)?

No, it's a case of GWs poor writing skills and lack of FAQs.

This is one of those issues we're not sure what GW thinks, and will never get FAQ'd.

 Happyjew wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Surely this is just a case of Codex (multitracker) overriding BRB (emplaced weapon)?

No, it's a case of GWs poor writing skills and lack of FAQs.

This is one of those issues we're not sure what GW thinks, and will never get FAQ'd.

And yet the rules are clear, so it doesn't matter.

It was clear that vehicles could fire the Quad gun as well.

Alas...

I think the word "instead" might make any of the battlesuits weapons ineligble for that phase. Else you would violate gun emplacment rules.

I think its possible for a battlesuit to fire a second seperate emplaced gun that he is in base contact with because of the multitracker.

There is another thing I think you guys should argue over;
In the gun emplacement rule were it says "it". There is no clarification that "it" refers to the gun emplacement. The word "fire" is a little iffy to see it is only assumed that our model is allowed to discharge the gun on the emplacement instead of discharging a weapon on the model. This rule could also commonly be misconstrued as the model being allowed to set fire to the gun, the emplacement, or the model in question. The great news though is that I think the broadside can go and set himself and the gun emplacement on fire because of his multitracker.

Nothing in the quad gun rule prohibits the multitracker or MC rules from applying. You may fire the Quad Gun instead of your own weapon and you then may fire an additional weapon.

Since the riptide can fire 3 weapon systems, but only has two. Have it man the quad gun. Lol

Fragile wrote:
Nothing in the quad gun rule prohibits the multitracker or MC rules from applying.

Nothing in the quad gun rule allows it either.
It's a poorly written rule.

 grendel083 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Nothing in the quad gun rule prohibits the multitracker or MC rules from applying.

Nothing in the quad gun rule allows it either.
It's a poorly written rule.

So?
The default is that you can only shoot 1 weapon
The exception is that you can shoot two with MT or MC.
Since permission has been granted to shoot more than one weapon, the gun emplacement rules would have to explicitly override the MT and MC rules in overriding the normal shooting rules.

seems like enougher case of codex overwriting the rule book.

when the rule book was written the only things that could fire more than 1 weapon per turn (to my best knowledge) was vehicles, and to that fact cannot operate a quad gun. However since the book was written, the Tau Codex has given a Specific Rule stating "May fire an extra weapon each shooting phase"

It does not state it has to be one of the models Own weapons, Just a weapon in general, be that a gun emplacement or a weapon that has been equiped on that model. But people shpuld just give the Broad side a drone controller and stick a drone controlling the Quadgun. To my knowledge there is no Rules that dont allow that. I may be wrong though.

 grendel083 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
Nothing in the quad gun rule prohibits the multitracker or MC rules from applying.

Nothing in the quad gun rule allows it either.
It's a poorly written rule.

No allowance is needed for the Quad Gun rule. I fire the quad gun instead of my weapon, now I fire an additional weapon. Show me the conflict.