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So, Dakka.
I have been in the hobby since I was about 10 and in that time I have had a good time.
But recently I have begun to question my continuing in the hobby. This is due to 2 things:

1) the price hike. I quiet literally cannot afford to keep up with my armys and even finishing my new ones is getting disproportionate.

2) My badluck. Of the games I have played I have won about 20% at the most. My dice just seem to fail to roll well. This is best shown in a game of Warmahordes I played last night. In total I rolled a 5+ twice. I was struggling to make even a 4 and 1s and 2s where all I was getting. I know this sounds like whining but even my opponent said I was having terrible luck in the battle.
It just seems that my rolling is getting worse and worse, whilst my lists are failing to even kill off a unit of my opponents. Most notably, that game last night. 35 pts and I managed to kill a grand total of 4 Blighted Ogrun Warspears. He took out my scrapthralls, Seether Heavy Helljack, both my Deathripper Bonejacks both my Ripjaw Bonejacks before finally killing off Deneghra.
I couldn't do anything, as all my roles where coming up pathetically. Its the same thing that's been happening for about 3 or so games in a row now, with the only exception being in a kill team tournament where I won several by having a Chimera APC.

Any help/advice Dakka?

You can cope with the prices by not buying more and more armies. Just finish the ones you have now, buying second hand off eBay if necessary.

(You could swap to historicals, which are much cheaper.)

As for luck, it never goes on bad for ever.

1. Play games with low model counts/cheap historicals.

2. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless, perform a statistical analysis on your rolling in a controlled environment, post the results.

I still play the game... but I'm increasingly doing so with non-GW minis, or with older GW minis purchased second-hand.

GW minis have gotten far too expensive for my hobby budget, simple as that. I can barely afford to keep up on the rules.

My secret hope is that some day GW will be forced out of the miniature market, and be forced to become an exclusive rules writer. Maybe then they'll hire some editors, proofreaders, and PLAYTEST THE BLOODY RULES.

 Riquende wrote:
2. Anecdotal evidence is meaningless, perform a statistical analysis on your rolling in a controlled environment, post the results.

That's boring...

 master of ordinance wrote:
1) the price hike. I quiet literally cannot afford to keep up with my armys and even finishing my new ones is getting disproportionate.

It has been said already but let us say it again. Stop trying to keep up. Reduce down to one or two armies, sell the rest to fund those two and keep those up to date. One well maintained army is much better than 5 half ass ones.

2) My badluck. Of the games I have played I have won about 20% at the most. My dice just seem to fail to roll well.

Practice. Work on strategy and lists. Create lists that minimize the effects of bad luck. Luck is overrated in gaming and is often blown out of proportion. Most of the cases of 'bad luck' I have seen are either: 1) Short Lived things and within the statistical spread 2) Play or judgement errors where the player makes a bad move and then complains about bad luck when he doesn't get the 6 he needed to save him from imminent doom.

 pretre wrote:

2) My badluck. Of the games I have played I have won about 20% at the most. My dice just seem to fail to roll well.

Practice. Work on strategy and lists. Create lists that minimize the effects of bad luck. Luck is overrated in gaming and is often blown out of proportion. Most of the cases of 'bad luck' I have seen are either: 1) Short Lived things and within the statistical spread 2) Play or judgement errors where the player makes a bad move and then complains about bad luck when he doesn't get the 6 he needed to save him from imminent doom.

This. This is what wargaming is all about.

As for the prices. If you're dead set on GW games, just buy less, or second hand. Otherwise there are cheaper (and arguably better) alternative games out there.

Yeah, sorry if it sounds harsh, but luck is a nonsense in a game of random numbers and probability.

Unless you have some cheap dice and have been unlucky (ha!) enough to get a bunch that are unbalanced to <4 then it isn't possible your luck is consistently bad.

For example, last year, I had a game where I rolled sixes for deployment, first turn and seize the initiative. My opponent rattled on about my "luck" all game.

The fact that in the first turn my DP Sternguard emerged from their drop, fired their combi meltas at his LR and managed to miss with 4 out of 5 shots, and only do one glancing hit to side armour? Didn't register.

Certain things stand out, then confirmation bias fills in the rest of the picture.

You bring up a point that I was curious about, do dice matter?

I'm using the little dice & found people who use the casino sizes to roll better (less rotations?), any thoughts on this?

It also helps to maybe focus on building fluffy armies and seeking other fluffy players - you generally won't need to buy all of the new releases to remain competitive, you'll get a lot of mileage out of your miniatures.

Other than that try to stick with just one army and buy a kit here and there - it isn't hard to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars across game systems/armies if you are trying to maintain 2 or more.

Rustiga wrote:
You bring up a point that I was curious about, do dice matter?

I'm using the little dice & found people who use the casino sizes to roll better (less rotations?), any thoughts on this?

Its possible to get 'good' (more random) or 'bad' (more consistent) dice certainly, but odds are, unless you're using dice from a Christmas cracker and paid more than £1 for 20, they're probably reasonable.

Casino dice are manufactured to much higher tolerances (the pips are shallower on the higher faces so the weight of extra paint doesn't bias them etc) but that is why they cost so much more. Most gaming dice are a perfectly accepted level of random, in my experience.

re: The Dice. I have a friend who says the same.

Its not down to your 'crippling' inability to manoeuvre a cube to face the desired position, rather your need for high numbers to get a successful hit.

My friends nicknamed me sixes because they think I roll high all the time, but that is not the case. What they see (but fail to understand) is that I roll a high number of SUCCESSES and the reason for that is I position models/equipment/whatever in such a manner so as to give me the greatest opportunity to roll successful dice (i.e. I look for options where a 3+ will give me a successful outcome, and avoid 5/6+ situations) Once you start to learn where situations will favour you, you will begin to see an improvement in your 'luck'.

now enjoy the game (but don't spend more than you need to!)

Play a boring eurogame that has no luck elements at all, like Agricola. Then after you wake up come back and start rolling some dice

Maybe look at a different set of dice, like Gamescience ones that are supposed to be exact. As azreal13 said there is a chance you got some badly tumbled dice that are uneven.

Or maybe just take a break from the more competitive games you play and go for something co-op? Pandemic the boardgame? D&D with friends? Or try something new that uses the same dice between players, like X-Wing Miniatures?

 KoganStyle wrote:
re: The Dice. I have a friend who says the same.

Its not down to your 'crippling' inability to manoeuvre a cube to face the desired position, rather your need for high numbers to get a successful hit.

My friends nicknamed me sixes because they think I roll high all the time, but that is not the case. What they see (but fail to understand) is that I roll a high number of SUCCESSES and the reason for that is I position models/equipment/whatever in such a manner so as to give me the greatest opportunity to roll successful dice (i.e. I look for options where a 3+ will give me a successful outcome, and avoid 5/6+ situations) Once you start to learn where situations will favour you, you will begin to see and improvement in your 'luck'.

now enjoy the game (but don't spend more than you need to!)

Yeah, I have a similar rep for being a bit lucky, but as well as adopting a similar philosophy, I will also do something with a slim chance of success if there isn't anything else as an option.

Obviously, once in a while I succeed, and these things stick in my opponents minds. For instance, I once snap shotted, rended and then blew up a Razorwing Jetfighter with the last remaining scout of a squad that the Razorwing had annihilated. Unlikely, but I had no other target on, so gave it a go!

 KoganStyle wrote:
My friends nicknamed me sixes because they think I roll high all the time, but that is not the case. What they see (but fail to understand) is that I roll a high number of SUCCESSES and the reason for that is I position models/equipment/whatever in such a manner so as to give me the greatest opportunity to roll successful dice (i.e. I look for options where a 3+ will give me a successful outcome, and avoid 5/6+ situations) Once you start to learn where situations will favour you, you will begin to see an improvement in your 'luck'.

This is what I was getting at. Well said!

 master of ordinance wrote:
So, Dakka.
I have been in the hobby since I was about 10 and in that time I have had a good time.
But recently I have begun to question my continuing in the hobby. This is due to 2 things:

1) the price hike. I quiet literally cannot afford to keep up with my armys and even finishing my new ones is getting disproportionate.

2) My badluck. Of the games I have played I have won about 20% at the most. My dice just seem to fail to roll well. This is best shown in a game of Warmahordes I played last night. In total I rolled a 5+ twice. I was struggling to make even a 4 and 1s and 2s where all I was getting. I know this sounds like whining but even my opponent said I was having terrible luck in the battle.
It just seems that my rolling is getting worse and worse, whilst my lists are failing to even kill off a unit of my opponents. Most notably, that game last night. 35 pts and I managed to kill a grand total of 4 Blighted Ogrun Warspears. He took out my scrapthralls, Seether Heavy Helljack, both my Deathripper Bonejacks both my Ripjaw Bonejacks before finally killing off Deneghra.
I couldn't do anything, as all my roles where coming up pathetically. Its the same thing that's been happening for about 3 or so games in a row now, with the only exception being in a kill team tournament where I won several by having a Chimera APC.

Any help/advice Dakka?

In regards to the first part, try other games besides the "big four" (warmahordes and warhammers). Alot of smaller games (especially kickstarters) give you a great deal on getting lots of minis at once (of possible dubious end quality and variable delivery date of course!). Other newer games also tend to have smaller total startup costs even if their apples to apples per figure price is the same (like with Infinity). I'd also focus on getting your minis second hand through trading. About mid-way through 5th edition 40k, I decided to try and "recycle" as much of my gaming expenses as possible and I've been quite successful with it. You won't obivously get the shiniest newest toy for the first year or so until people tire of it and put it in their sale/trade piles but as long as you've got some patience you'll get it eventually. I think the prices GW charges for non-plastics and even some plastics borders on ridiculous but I don't have an issue trading my plastics/metals bought in 1998-2003 for an equivalent (and equally ridiculous) equal trade value of something newer that I want... or even selling them at 40% off current prices which puts it at about what I paid for it full retail 10 years ago. I don't know how old you are now (you mentioned starting at age 10) but if you've been in the hobby for at least a decade then you probably have a collection of unused figs. Ruthlessly cull them and get rid of stuff you haven't used for 5 years and have little to no hope to use, keeping only the coolest of the cool figs you like but have no use for.

1. Play different games or older editions with what you have.

Learn to sculpt and scratcbuild and be happy with tabletop levels of results.

2. Roll more dice thanks to careful positioning, overlapping fire, and redundancy.

Smash one of your dice with a hammer and throw the bits in with the others. If they don't get the message, do it again until they darn well knock it off.

 Kilkrazy wrote:
You can cope with the prices by not buying more and more armies. Just finish the ones you have now, buying second hand off eBay if necessary.

(You could swap to historicals, which are much cheaper.)

As for luck, it never goes on bad for ever.

I have been keeping track on the average price (for seven years) on second hand models as I like to convert things. Yes you can score from time to time on some good deals however your mileage will vary.

Expect the models that you actually need are sold be between 10% to 20% new. Those models that are not competitive will be some cheaper. Seven years ago conversions were cheap to do. Not anymore. People selling their armies now are...

A) getting out of the hobby for one reason or another. Cost and a crappy rule set are the reasons people are leaving in my region and playing other things. They also Exepct that they can get as much as they put into their models if they sold the army as a whole. What people are doing now is to break up an army and sell in in piece meal fashion. In this way they can at times get as much if not more for their models in question. However this has driven up the prices on Ebay as well

B) getting rid of their army to stay competitive with the current Meta at hand.

It is total BS on what Games Workshop is doing. The hobby is dying because of investors needs.

You might get lucky on the Dakka Swap section of this site. I've gotten decent enough deals in the past to continue to look there more and more lately.

Note to the OP#
Continue the GW hobby at your own risk and be warned. People are leaving the game and going on to something else. This is what's happening to my area.
It might start in yours.

then you are just throwing money away.

I lose more games than I win.

The trick is not minding. Separate your ego from the need to win.
Sure, winning is nice, but it should be a bonus to a good game, not a replacement for one.

As for the price hikes ...

As much as GW like people to not believe it, their figures CAN be used with other rules.
I've used their figures in several other sets of game rules over the years. Even now, my BFG SM fleet gets played with other rules (Full thrust).

You could try other games with smaller figure counts where armies do not get nerfed when a new book comes out (yes, new units get added, but they should ALL still work).

 Adam LongWalker wrote:
Expect the models that you actually need are sold be between 10% to 20% new. Those models that are not competitive will be some cheaper. Seven years ago conversions were cheap to do. Not anymore. People selling their armies now are...

Where are you getting your data? 10 to 20% of retail? That is not what I have seen in swap shop, bartertown, ebay, etc.

example: I just (two days ago) bought an army for 30-40% of retail and already flipped enough of it to make my money back at for 50-60%. I would love to see one example of an army that isn't a pile of rubble selling for 10%.

Last time I checked, the hobby had more to it than GW.

Either that, or you have a different hobby to mine which is wargaming.

Wargaming does not have to be costly at all. Its up to you if you want it to be.

As for luck, buy some loaded dice...

Big P wrote:
Last time I checked, the hobby had more to it than GW.

Either that, or you have a different hobby to mine which is wargaming.

Wargaming does not have to be costly at all. Its up to you if you want it to be.

As for luck, buy some loaded dice...

3/10

The OP didn't even mention GW and that's some pretty bad advice for his luck as well. :(

 pretre wrote:

Big P wrote:
Last time I checked, the hobby had more to it than GW.

Either that, or you have a different hobby to mine which is wargaming.

Wargaming does not have to be costly at all. Its up to you if you want it to be.

As for luck, buy some loaded dice...

3/10

The OP didn't even mention GW and that's some pretty bad advice for his luck as well. :(

The OP did mention "price hikes". Not saying no other companies raise their prices, but we all know which company we associate with the term "price hike".

And the dice advice wasn't too shabby, was it?

Best advice I would give is 'a change is as good as a rest' - try something new, something cheaper, if you're focused on winning/losing, try playing a game that focuses more on the experience rather than the end result (which will probably bring you into contact with some better games).

 pretre wrote:

Big P wrote:
Last time I checked, the hobby had more to it than GW.

Either that, or you have a different hobby to mine which is wargaming.

Wargaming does not have to be costly at all. Its up to you if you want it to be.

As for luck, buy some loaded dice...

3/10

The OP didn't even mention GW and that's some pretty bad advice for his luck as well. :(

The OP's avatar is a titan, he mentions price hikes and also a Chimera, so that is 3 reasons he could think that!

Also, I think comments about 'bad luck' deserve a reply about loaded dice

Although, think the luck comments probably relate to Warmahordes, which has made thrusting your pelvis into your opponents face a selling point and something to be admired.

 azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, sorry if it sounds harsh, but luck is a nonsense in a game of random numbers and probability.

Unless you have some cheap dice and have been unlucky (ha!) enough to get a bunch that are unbalanced to <4 then it isn't possible your luck is consistently bad.

For example, last year, I had a game where I rolled sixes for deployment, first turn and seize the initiative. My opponent rattled on about my "luck" all game.

The fact that in the first turn my DP Sternguard emerged from their drop, fired their combi meltas at his LR and managed to miss with 4 out of 5 shots, and only do one glancing hit to side armour? Didn't register.

Certain things stand out, then confirmation bias fills in the rest of the picture.

People believing in luck is what keeps Las Vegas in business.

Leverage the odds - if there is a situation where you need a really high roll, then make sure that you roll lots of dice.

Play the odds, or better, play the opponent - I have won more games because I could exploit my opponent's mistakes than because I had happy dice.

Make a plan, give it some flexibility, but stick to it - do not let yourself get distracted from your goals.

My girlfriend and I beat another pair of players by making a plan, sticking to it, and not talking during the game - just following through on the plan. The point was to rattle the other players, and it did. They made mistakes, and went up the middle into the teeth of Megan's artillery, while I flanked with dwarfs! (I never get tired of that - of all the armies out there, dwarfs are the least suited for flanking....)

We also took half the time to make our moves (this was Kings of War, with the chess clock ticking).

Because I knew those players, and how they would react to our set up.

The Auld Grump

 chromedog wrote:
I lose more games than I win.

The trick is not minding. Separate your ego from the need to win.

This right here. In my little group, only one person cares about winning. He also tends to be the person who has the least amount of fun, because the reason he's playing is to win, rather than that being a possible outcome of the game.

The rest of us play to have a reason to get together for a day, have a few drinks and catch up.

Play games where you have to throw low to succeed, if you start to throw high numbers only then it is your subconscious negative aura energy that is affecting the dice.

Thanks to all, you have been really helpful

I think i shall slow down and see about finishing off what i have, and possibly selling/trading what i dont want/need.

And maybe some new (lucky) dice are in order .

@ Jehan-reznor - i do have 3/4 armys for Darkage (2 starter level and one tournament level that can be split in 2) but there are currently no players near me.

 chromedog wrote:
I lose more games than I win.

The trick is not minding. Separate your ego from the need to win.
Sure, winning is nice, but it should be a bonus to a good game, not a replacement for one.

This worked wel for me too.

I also became selective about who I played. I only played people that had a similar gaming philosophy as me.