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 Frazzled wrote:
I generally take freaking very seriously.

Ahh... Nice one.

Although you can't be serious when you say the homeless have no right to be in a library.

 Alfndrate wrote:

feeder wrote:
Freaking seriously?

While libraries are public places, many homeless use them as free and easy access to the following:
1) Bathrooms
2) Warmth
3) Internet/Internet porn

While they certainly have just as much right to be in the library as anyone else, because knowledge is power and half the battle, they tend to not use libraries for their intended purpose. In Cleveland, so idk about anywhere else, many homeless spend their days in the libraries because it's less 'embarrassing' to be seen going to a homeless shelter.

Though if I was homeless, I'd volunteer at the library, taking hobo showers in the bathroom and helping out where I can, and then hit up one of the many free 'community meals' that my city puts on for people down on their luck/outright homeless.

Therefor they don't have the right to be there as everyone else. You have to use a library for its intended use.

 Frazzled wrote:
Wait they still have libraries?

Aren't those like, those things crotchety old people like you had to go to to read wikipedia?

feeder wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I generally take freaking very seriously.

Ahh... Nice one.

Although you can't be serious when you say the homeless have no right to be in a library.

You're proceding from the assumption I think homeless have the right to live. You have to get over that obstacle first...

feeder wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I generally take freaking very seriously.

Ahh... Nice one.

Although you can't be serious when you say the homeless have no right to be in a library.

My own state says everyone has the right to use a library, but that you can be kicked out for violating the library's policies (as long as those policies are enforced equally across the board.

Also this very idea has been discussed and written about before

 rubiksnoob wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
Wait they still have libraries?

Aren't those like, those things crotchety old people like you had to go to to read wikipedia?

No we spend your inheritence on a nice computer.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Alfndrate wrote:

feeder wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I generally take freaking very seriously.

Ahh... Nice one.

Although you can't be serious when you say the homeless have no right to be in a library.

My own state says everyone has the right to use a library, but that you can be kicked out for violating the library's policies (as long as those policies are enforced equally across the board.

Also this very idea has been discussed and written about before

i'm down with that.

 Frazzled wrote:
You're proceding from the assumption I think homeless have the right to live.

If that is a joke it is in incredibly poor taste. If it isn't a joke it is surprisingly cold and vicious; even Wiener Dogs don't want to be associated with that level of hatred and contempt.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You're proceding from the assumption I think homeless have the right to live.

If that is a joke it is in incredibly poor taste. If it isn't a joke it is surprisingly cold and vicious; even Wiener Dogs don't want to be associated with that level of hatred and contempt.

Wait, you're thinking thats biased. You forget that I'm 98% positive that 97% of the human population are a waste of skin at least 42% of the time.*

*34% of that statistic is completely made up.

Mayhaps homeless deserves it own topic no?

 Frazzled wrote:

feeder wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I generally take freaking very seriously.

Ahh... Nice one.

Although you can't be serious when you say the homeless have no right to be in a library.

You're proceding from the assumption I think homeless have the right to live. You have to get over that obstacle first...

I didn't realize "kill the landless" was a pillar of libertarian philosophy.

No no thats "recycle the landless." We're all about being green now.

To the topic, any issue with my solution on page 1?

 Frazzled wrote:

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
You're proceding from the assumption I think homeless have the right to live.

If that is a joke it is in incredibly poor taste. If it isn't a joke it is surprisingly cold and vicious; even Wiener Dogs don't want to be associated with that level of hatred and contempt.

Wait, you're thinking thats biased. You forget that I'm 98% positive that 97% of the human population are a waste of skin at least 42% of the time.*

There is an extremely wide chasm of difference between "I don't like most people" and "A group of people I don't like have no right to live". The former is a pretty common feeling whereas the latter is held by some pretty marginalized and unsavory groups.

I love the smell of righteousness in the morning! Here I'm in line with a sound recycling program and you're not getting with the program. You're not one of those polluters are you?

Again, any issue with my solution on page 1?

 Alfndrate wrote:

feeder wrote:
Freaking seriously?

While libraries are public places, many homeless use them as free and easy access to the following:
1) Bathrooms
2) Warmth
3) Internet/Internet porn

What's wrong with using a public bathroom located inside a public place? What's wrong with taking advantage of free and easy access to the internet at a public place that's very purpose is to provide free and easy access to information, including the internet? What's wrong with entering a warm public place when it is cold outside?

I liked option 3. But I'm old school like that.

feeder wrote:
I liked option 3. But I'm old school like that.

I'm down with that as well. Libraries are for books. If you want to play howdie doodie on a computer go somewhere else.
Alternatively restrict computers to journals that the library has subscriptions to.

 Frazzled wrote:
I love the smell of righteousness in the morning!

One need not be righteous to recognize that the idea of wishing death upon whole swaths of people is a fairly awful and problematic sentiment.

 Frazzled wrote:

feeder wrote:
I liked option 3. But I'm old school like that.

I'm down with that as well. Libraries are for books. If you want to play howdie doodie on a computer go somewhere else.
Alternatively restrict computers to journals that the library has subscriptions to.

Luckily for everyone else, libraries don't tend to be big on censorship.

 Hordini wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

feeder wrote:
Freaking seriously?

While libraries are public places, many homeless use them as free and easy access to the following:
1) Bathrooms
2) Warmth
3) Internet/Internet porn

What's wrong with using a public bathroom located inside a public place? What's wrong with taking advantage of free and easy access to the internet at a public place that's very purpose is to provide free and easy access to information, including the internet? What's wrong with entering a warm public place when it is cold outside?

1) Bathrooms, no matter where you are, are generally reserved for patrons of the establishment, to be a patron of the library you have to have a library card, which requires an address
2) Nothing, I've spent an hour or so inside of a library during hot summer days to take advantage of the air conditioning, but I am also a patron of the library, I usually left there with a few books (that the library then made some money off of me cause I was terrible at returning books ). Homeless people generally enter and spend most if not the entire day there simply because it's warm (or cold in the summer).
3) I agree that people should be able to use the internet at the library for certain things, looking up internet porn isn't one of them simply because there are children around (which is why Frazz's suggestion on page 1 is a decent one). The internet at the library should be used for research, general knowledge, communicating with family, or applying for jobs (the second reason why my local libraries got their grants for computers with the first being for students).

Anyone abusing these facilities should be kicked out as well...

 Hordini wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:

feeder wrote:
I liked option 3. But I'm old school like that.

I'm down with that as well. Libraries are for books. If you want to play howdie doodie on a computer go somewhere else.
Alternatively restrict computers to journals that the library has subscriptions to.

Luckily for everyone else, libraries don't tend to be big on censorship.

mmm... this is an expansive view of censorship not equating with the actual definition.

Nothing is being censored in either scenario.
Scenario #1: merely routes you to age appropriate computers. If you're some purve who wants to watch porn next to kiddies and has a problem with this, well then I then I am serious about you needing to be recycled.
Scenario #2: A Library's purpose is a store of knowledge. Thats books. Journals as well. Its not fething Starbucks with free wifi.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

feeder wrote:
Freaking seriously?

While libraries are public places, many homeless use them as free and easy access to the following:
1) Bathrooms
2) Warmth
3) Internet/Internet porn

What's wrong with using a public bathroom located inside a public place? What's wrong with taking advantage of free and easy access to the internet at a public place that's very purpose is to provide free and easy access to information, including the internet? What's wrong with entering a warm public place when it is cold outside?

1) Bathrooms, no matter where you are, are generally reserved for patrons of the establishment, to be a patron of the library you have to have a library card, which requires an address
2) Nothing, I've spent an hour or so inside of a library during hot summer days to take advantage of the air conditioning, but I am also a patron of the library, I usually left there with a few books (that the library then made some money off of me cause I was terrible at returning books ). Homeless people generally enter and spend most if not the entire day there simply because it's warm (or cold in the summer).
3) I agree that people should be able to use the internet at the library for certain things, looking up internet porn isn't one of them simply because there are children around (which is why Frazz's suggestion on page 1 is a decent one). The internet at the library should be used for research, general knowledge, communicating with family, or applying for jobs (the second reason why my local libraries got their grants for computers with the first being for students).

Anyone abusing these facilities should be kicked out as well...

You don't have to have a library card to be a patron of a public library. You just need a library card to check books out. You also don't need to be a patron of anything to use a public restroom. I'm also not encouraging people to look at porn at the library in front of a bunch of kids, but that doesn't mean I think libraries should censor their internet on computers that adults use either.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Frazzled wrote:

Scenario #2: A Library's purpose is a store of knowledge. Thats books. Journals as well. Its not fething Starbucks with free wifi.

Are you saying providing access to the internet goes against the library's purpose of being a store of knowledge?

 Hordini wrote:
You don't have to have a library card to be a patron of a public library. You just need a library card to check books out.

Libraries gain their funding through several ways, the largest is by local government funding, which is funded by the tax paying people of those cities. Homeless people tend to not pay taxes. The second is through private fundraising (my local library has a foundation that raises funds to keep the library going). Third, and probably the smallest I admit, is through the circulation of books by collecting late fees, charging for lost/stolen books, and for charging for services which require a library card to use.

 Ouze wrote:

 juraigamer wrote:
Who goes to a library to watch porn?

Homeless people.

*cough* Unlucky college students *COUGH*

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
You don't have to have a library card to be a patron of a public library. You just need a library card to check books out.

Libraries gain their funding through several ways, the largest is by local government funding, which is funded by the tax paying people of those cities. Homeless people tend to not pay taxes. The second is through private fundraising (my local library has a foundation that raises funds to keep the library going). Third, and probably the smallest I admit, is through the circulation of books by collecting late fees, charging for lost/stolen books, and for charging for services which require a library card to use.

That doesn't change the fact that a public library is open to the public and that you don't need to have a library card to patronize them. You don't have to pay taxes to utilize a library either.

 Ahtman wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I love the smell of righteousness in the morning!

One need not be righteous to recognize that the idea of wishing death upon whole swaths of people is a fairly awful and problematic sentiment.

its ok. I also don't think short people got no reason to live.
The wife, being short, hates it when I sing that. The daughter just pokes me in the stomach. No one takes me seriously.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
You don't have to have a library card to be a patron of a public library. You just need a library card to check books out.

Libraries gain their funding through several ways, the largest is by local government funding, which is funded by the tax paying people of those cities. Homeless people tend to not pay taxes. The second is through private fundraising (my local library has a foundation that raises funds to keep the library going). Third, and probably the smallest I admit, is through the circulation of books by collecting late fees, charging for lost/stolen books, and for charging for services which require a library card to use.

EVERYONE pays taxes. Except, apparently, card-carrying illegals.

Are you saying providing access to the internet goes against the library's purpose of being a store of knowledge?

Pretty much. 8 million google hits on Milley Cyris kind of proves my point.

 Hordini wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
You don't have to have a library card to be a patron of a public library. You just need a library card to check books out.

Libraries gain their funding through several ways, the largest is by local government funding, which is funded by the tax paying people of those cities. Homeless people tend to not pay taxes. The second is through private fundraising (my local library has a foundation that raises funds to keep the library going). Third, and probably the smallest I admit, is through the circulation of books by collecting late fees, charging for lost/stolen books, and for charging for services which require a library card to use.

That doesn't change the fact that a public library is open to the public and that you don't need to have a library card to patronize them. You don't have to pay taxes to utilize a library either.

If the homeless are using the library's services for their intended use, then I have no problem with it, but if I'm in the library looking for books or using the internet, and I see some guy looking at porn, then I would expect him to be removed for his actions and banned from using at least that aspect of the library just as I would expect someone to ban me if I was using the library for such things.

If you abuse the services that the library offers, then you don't have the privilege to use their services.

That doesn't change the fact that a public library is open to the public and that you don't need to have a library card to patronize them. You don't have to pay taxes to utilize a library either.

Well we can easily remedy that in either of the ways you just mentioned. Mind, you're not advocating patronage. you're advocating squatting.
Libraries aren't flophouses.

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Hordini wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:

 Hordini wrote:
You don't have to have a library card to be a patron of a public library. You just need a library card to check books out.

Libraries gain their funding through several ways, the largest is by local government funding, which is funded by the tax paying people of those cities. Homeless people tend to not pay taxes. The second is through private fundraising (my local library has a foundation that raises funds to keep the library going). Third, and probably the smallest I admit, is through the circulation of books by collecting late fees, charging for lost/stolen books, and for charging for services which require a library card to use.

That doesn't change the fact that a public library is open to the public and that you don't need to have a library card to patronize them. You don't have to pay taxes to utilize a library either.

If the homeless are using the library's services for their intended use, then I have no problem with it, but if I'm in the library looking for books or using the internet, and I see some guy looking at porn, then I would expect him to be removed for his actions and banned from using at least that aspect of the library just as I would expect someone to ban me if I was using the library for such things.

If you abuse the services that the library offers, then you don't have the privilege to use their services.

What is porn? Is Playboy porn? Some libraries include that periodical. Should someone be allowed to visit that website on a library computer?

 Alfndrate wrote:
Libraries gain their funding through several ways, the largest is by local government funding, which is funded by the tax paying people of those cities. Homeless people tend to not pay taxes.

I'm pretty sure this is on dubious legal ground, though I'm not handily fighting a precedent. Legally speaking, "public" doesn't mean "taxpayers".

If anyone wants to help me out with finding a case to support this or otherwise I'd like to read it, still searching.