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 Troike wrote:


@Haemonculus
All the better, if so.

Agreed. And all the more reason to think the book (or ebook) is legit.

Hell I'm just happy SoaB are getting some love, this is certainly better than nothing and I'm sure we'll get plastic kits and a hardback codex eventually.

Dj

Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

Ooh, sorry! Please don't bane me!

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

Ooh, sorry! Please don't bane me!

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

Ooh, sorry! Please don't bane me!

In all seriousness, sorreh about that, but thankfully great minds think alike.

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

Ooh, sorry! Please don't bane me!

In all seriousness, sorreh about that, but thankfully great minds think alike.

No need to apologise, and I didn't mean to sound like I was claiming bragging rights.

I do agree that great minds think alike, however!

I really hope this is real. The SoB players have been waiting since 2nd ed for a proper codex.

If it is real, I'm looking forward to seeing more SoB armies around.

Puscifer wrote:
I really hope this is real. The SoB players have been waiting since 2nd ed for a proper codex.

If it is real, I'm looking forward to seeing more SoB armies around.

How come the third edition codex isn't a proper one then? Is it because their name isn't on the codex?

I will take this image with ample amounts of salt, after all I have plenty left over from the piles GW rubs into my wounds. I find the assessment of the white dwarf funny on both ends in a tragic sort of way. Obviously id like to see a lot of change but even I am not that deluded.
But as a bit of a comparison I leave you all with this...(yes I understand the points drop of Hvy Flamers from 5th to 6th, and that essentially it is apples and oranges but for the horrible humor of it its fun to compare)
A basic troop SoB with a Heavy Flamer costs exactly as much as a Sternguard with a Heavy Flamer.
+1's to WS, S, T, A, Ld, not to mention ATSKNF is always on vs Faith driven regroup, Also the fact that SoB's armory is woefully lacking in Missile Launchers, Lascannons, or standard plasma. So if skyfire access can be had there is not a reasonable threat to deliver with it.

Anywho not ranting, just chipping in. Optimism being held firmly in check.

 edweird wrote:
SoB's armory is woefully lacking in Missile Launchers, Lascannons, or standard plasma.

That'd go against the playstyle of the army, though. Sisters are all about short-ranged firepower, so I'd prefer the focus to stay on flamers and meltas. It makes them distinct as an army. I feel like we'd be moving too close to the Marines if we acquired those weapons.

 BrookM wrote:
How come the third edition codex isn't a proper one then? Is it because their name isn't on the codex?

While it certainly was a proper SoB codex, or was also an Ordo Hereticus codex too. So one could consider it to not be a "true" SoB codex, since they were sharing with somebody else.

Celestine - Best Warlord in the Game for 115.

The Baron

5xDoms, 2 Meltas in a TLMM Immo - 170 for three twinlinked meltas (one multi). Find me a marine equivalent that does that much melta that cheap. With Scout for outflank or first turn melta.

5 man squad of legion of the damned with combi melta, melta, multimelta. 155pts all their weapons ignore cover and precision deepstrike.

10 Doms, 2 Meltas, 2 Flamers in a Repressor - 235 (200 for Rhino) AV13 transport with 2 Twin-linked flamers and 2 twin linked meltas. With Scout. First turn melta or outflank objective cleanser.

Sternguad similar points cost. Similar destruction. Marine bike squads are better and cheaper.

Exorcist - 135. Find me a 48" AP1 with one shot for that price. Now find me one that averages 3.5 shots at BS4.

Not bad..but only having one weapon is it's weakness. The annihilator predator is now only 5pts more and better IMHO.

Retributors - 85 for 4 rending HB. Yeah, find a light transport killer for that cheap in marines. Dakka pred comes closest, but Rets take out heavy infantry too.

You're forgetting that 85pts is for only 5. So what? Rending? with only 5 models good luck getting that power off more than once given it's easy to remove 5 T3 models. 2 attack bikes put out nearly the same fire power for 5 points more, but are more mobile, and can assault if need be. Rending doesn't matter. For 15pts more I get a thunderfire cannon which is superior.

Jacobus - 90 - One of the best allied HQs for blog IG. FNP, +1 Attack and Rerolls on the charge.

A rune priest is a superior allied HQ for blob platoons in every way. Even a new SM codex librarian is better.

Conclave - 150 for the nastiest group of power weapons. 240 if you add Jacobus or Kyrinov. Much cooler in 5th, but still a premier countercharge unit.

All T3 weenies. Easily dispatched with shooting. This unit will never get to counter charge because it will never reach it's target before it's dead. It has no delivery system.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

Celestine - Best Warlord in the Game for 115.

The Baron

The baron gets back up on a 4+ and can almost guarantee you a contested objective at the end of the game if you go second?

5xDoms, 2 Meltas in a TLMM Immo - 170 for three twinlinked meltas (one multi). Find me a marine equivalent that does that much melta that cheap. With Scout for outflank or first turn melta.

5 man squad of legion of the damned with combi melta, melta, multimelta. 155pts all their weapons ignore cover and precision deepstrike.

Twin linked? Outflank? Turn 1 Melta of a target? They are good, don't get me wrong, but Turn 1 Scout (if you go first) is really good. Doms are still good even if they don't get out of their vehicle, where as the Legion is exposed.

10 Doms, 2 Meltas, 2 Flamers in a Repressor - 235 (200 for Rhino) AV13 transport with 2 Twin-linked flamers and 2 twin linked meltas. With Scout. First turn melta or outflank objective cleanser.

Sternguad similar points cost. Similar destruction. Marine bike squads are better and cheaper.

But do they have scout. Do they have twin-linked? Sternguard 120 + 2 Meltas, 2 Flamers (30) in a Drop pod 35. 185. No twin linked. 5 Bodies. Get the extra ammo. No scout. Not scoring in scouring (which is plus and minus). Can't get a repressor. If in a drop pod, has to expose itself to do its job leaving it dead in the water.

Exorcist - 135. Find me a 48" AP1 with one shot for that price. Now find me one that averages 3.5 shots at BS4.

Not bad..but only having one weapon is it's weakness. The annihilator predator is now only 5pts more and better IMHO.

Better at what? S8 AP1 is a huge bonus. Double tapping out wraiths and marines, AP1 for +2 on the table.

Retributors - 85 for 4 rending HB. Yeah, find a light transport killer for that cheap in marines. Dakka pred comes closest, but Rets take out heavy infantry too.

You're forgetting that 85pts is for only 5. So what? Rending? with only 5 models good luck getting that power off more than once given it's easy to remove 5 T3 models. 2 attack bikes put out nearly the same fire power for 5 points more, but are more mobile, and can assault if need be. Rending doesn't matter.

Rending doesn't matter? Serious?

Jacobus - 90 - One of the best allied HQs for blog IG. FNP, +1 Attack and Rerolls on the charge.

A rune priest is a superior allied HQ for blob platoons in every way. Even a new SM codex librarian is better.

Better than FNP, +1 Attack, Stubborn and Rerolls? Sure he is. Dislodge a 40 FNP blob from behind an aegis. For guard blobs, he is great.

Conclave - 150 for the nastiest group of power weapons. 240 if you add Jacobus or Kyrinov. Much cooler in 5th, but still a premier countercharge unit.

All T3 weenies. Easily dispatched with shooting. This unit will never get to counter charge because it will never reach it's target before it's dead. It has no delivery system.

The baron gets back up on a 4+ and can almost guarantee you a contested objective at the end of the game if you go second?

Does St. Celestine become a huge force multiplier for your army? Does she give you a better chance at going first..thus allowing your fire power to cripple your opponent and not needing her 50/50 chance at contesting? Does she give useful units Stealth, H&R, and a 2++ save? No? Ok. She's a great HQ. Top 5 easily. But she's no Baron...

Twin linked? Outflank? Turn 1 Melta of a target? They are good, don't get me wrong, but Turn 1 Scout (if you go first) is really good. Doms are still good even if they don't get out of their vehicle, where as the Legion is exposed.

All those abilities are situational. LotD is consistent and consistency is better than situational. LotD can be exposed because their save is superior. You asked for a melta delivery system that's better and cheaper. I gave it to you.

But do they have scout. Do they have twin-linked? Sternguard 120 + 2 Meltas, 2 Flamers (30) in a Drop pod 35. 185. No twin linked. 5 Bodies. Get the extra ammo. No scout. Not scoring in scouring (which is plus and minus). Can't get a repressor. If in a drop pod, has to expose itself to do its job leaving it dead in the water.

In regards to Sternguard, I said comparable damage output. You missed my bike squad suggestion. Cheaper, better, harder hitting, and can be easily made to be scoring.

Better at what? S8 AP1 is a huge bonus. Double tapping out wraiths and marines, AP1 for +2 on the table.

Better consistency. An annihilator doubles out wraiths and marines as well. AP2 is good enough. But I'd rather be able to consistently put out 3 shots every turn than relying on the D6. The exocist isn't bad..but again you are asking for something better.

Rending doesn't matter? Serious?

No it doesn't and here's why: Range 36" puts them in harms way of just about everything in the game that can wtfpwn them. Secondly, for 85pts that's only 5 guys...4 HBs. With only 12 BS4 shots that's not many rending chances...and that's assuming you can even get the act of faith off. Lastly, at best will get one use of that faith based power before they are dead. I've used them extensively and they simply can't survive in the Tau/ Eldar era. That's the truth.

Better than FNP, +1 Attack, Stubborn and Rerolls? Sure he is. Dislodge a 40 FNP blob from behind an aegis. For guard blobs, he is great.

Yes the rune priest is better. Gives your army superior psychic protection, ATSKNF, and can Jaws Riptides dead..which are dominating at the moment. You can get stubborn by adding in commissars, and rerolls can be given with a command squad banner near by. 40 guardsmen behind an aegis are durable regardless of FNP. Lastly, FNP doesn't matter much now that Thunderfires can barrage. Jacobus is good, but again you asked for a better choice and I gave you one.

I agree with the delivery system bit. T3 weenies with a 3++/5+FNP or 5++/5+FNP are not that easy to dislodge. You can get them a vehicle or put them behind an aegis and then they are a 4+/5+FNP across the board.

Yes they are easy to dislodge because they are T3 weenies. FNP doesn't mean squat when the game is loaded with Str6 -7 weapons. Putting them in the vehicle only buys them maybe a turn..but that turn is then squandered as they exit the vehicle and sit there awaiting to be shot. Also the vehicle they are taking is easily dispatched. Aegis? Why would I want an assault unit hanging out behind a wall? Again, str6 -7 still murders them and TFC ends the debate all together.

Again, same commentary that I gave you in jy2's thread. Don't let your dislike for the book color your assessment of the units.

My dislike for the book has nothing to do with it. You asked to find you better units than those SOB ones...and I did. Don't let your blind love of a crap codex color your assessment of the brutal reality of the state of the SOB codex in regards to where the game currently is in the meta.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
My dislike for the book has nothing to do with it. You asked to find you better units than those SOB ones...and I did. Don't let your blind love of a crap codex color your assessment of the brutal reality of the state of the SOB codex in regards to where the game is currently in the meta.

You didn't. You found different units that aren't better but just marine equivalents that do different things than the SOB units. Heck, you put up a DE unit instead of a SM for the HQ.
Your dislike has everything to do with it. Mine is not blind love. I actually play games with them in the 'current meta' and do well. I have openly discussed the areas that are lacking in the codex (lackluster troops, nonSC HQs are bad, Elites have no good units) but there is still a lot that is good. Maybe take a look at tactics rather than deriding the codex?

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

All those abilities are situational. LotD is consistent and consistency is better than situational. LotD can be exposed because their save is superior. You asked for a melta delivery system that's better and cheaper. I gave it to you.

Consistently at the mercy of reserve rolls.

 AlmightyWalrus wrote:

 CaptKaruthors wrote:

All those abilities are situational. LotD is consistent and consistency is better than situational. LotD can be exposed because their save is superior. You asked for a melta delivery system that's better and cheaper. I gave it to you.

Consistently at the mercy of reserve rolls.

This is where we are told that we can just add Tigurius to fix that problem.

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

Ooh, sorry! Please don't bane me!

In all seriousness, sorreh about that, but thankfully great minds think alike.

So do terrible ones...

Jusat kidding. When does the White Dwarf come out?

You wrote:

Find me a marine equivalent.

You didn't. You found different units that aren't better but just marine equivalents that do different things than the SOB units. Heck, you put up a DE unit instead of a SM for the HQ.

I can and I did. You simply don't like the answer. Too bad. Yes I did give a DE HQ. Ok, here is a marine one. A captain on a bike. Makes one of the best marine units now scoring. I'd rather have a force multiplier for my army rather than an island for a character.

Your dislike has everything to do with it.

No it doesn't. I actually agreed with you that St. Celestine and Jacobus are good choices. However, in the context of the SOB codex they are the only choices...and that's not really a choice is it? Regardless...you asked for better choices and I gave them...you simply don't like the answer. Period. Which leads too...

Mine is not blind love.

This.

I actually play games with them in the 'current meta' and do well.

Good for you. But your 'Argument from Authority' fallacy won't work here.

I have openly discussed the areas that are lacking in the codex (lackluster troops, nonSC HQs are bad, Elites have no good units) but there is still a lot that is good.

So have I...and when you take out all those choices you are left with no choice and thus only have 4 maybe 5 units in the book worth taking...and that's good? That makes the army viable? Again...if you are running horde SOB or AV11 SOB...marines and even chaos marines can do it better because they have better units to do it. Period. And if that's the case...then why aren't we seeing those lists doing well and placing in the top GT events?

Maybe take a look at tactics rather than deriding the codex?

Ah...yes...this tired statement. Of course! It's my tactics...that must be it. :groan: No Pretre...I'd rather shelf the army and play one that actually has unit choice, works cohesively..and isn't a POS, thanks...and I'm sure I'm not the only SOB player saying that.

 Davespil wrote:

Jusat kidding. When does the White Dwarf come out?

Three days.

This is where we are told that we can just add Tigurius to fix that problem.

Just like we are told that St. Celestine cures cancer in an SOB list. Rolling a 3+ is pretty good odds of getting a unit you need. Want better? Tigurius? Why not? The guy is probably the best HQ choice in that book for TAC style play. Or you can add a comms relay to a bastion or aegis. Or you can use scriers gaze.

 CaptKaruthors wrote:
snip

You know what? I've already gone round with you on this in jy2's thread and I'm not going to do it again. You don't like the book. Great. Enjoy playing whatever army you do like.

 Davespil wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:

 Haemonculus wrote:

 BrookM wrote:
Actually, regarding the constant droning about the cover art belonging to FFG, WRONG: Yes it is from Dark Heresy, but the Inquisitor's Handbook, where the cover art is taken from, was NOT a FFG publication at first, but a Black Industries release, before GW got wise and cancelled the whole thing and let FFG take it over.

I pointed that out last page.

Ooh, sorry! Please don't bane me!

In all seriousness, sorreh about that, but thankfully great minds think alike.

So do terrible ones...

Jusat kidding. When does the White Dwarf come out?

Saturday. It's going up early so the devs can discuss the releases at Games Day UK.

Great. Enjoy playing whatever army you do like.

Hey. Cool. Thanks for your permission.

Got my hopes up here for some sisters love but a stopgap measure after a stopgap measure means they're still technically on the path to oblivion model wise. Enjoy your distraction SoB players. I really wish they just hand the range to forge world chaos dwarves style at least then there'd be a real update and not just these false glimmers of hope and newly developed army squatting techniques.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Got my hopes up here for some sisters love but a stopgap measure after a stopgap measure means they're still technically on the path to oblivion model wise. Enjoy your distraction SoB players. I really wish they just hand the range to forge world chaos dwarves style at least then there'd be a real update and not just these false glimmers of hope and newly developed army squatting techniques.

And people say the Sisters players are the depressing ones. Have SOME faith.

Mr.Church13 wrote:
Got my hopes up here for some sisters love but a stopgap measure after a stopgap measure means they're still technically on the path to oblivion model wise.

You mean the state they've been in since the 2nd edition codex? Yeah, really headed off to oblivion here...

newly developed army squatting techniques.

Nice try.

Well, this was entertaining.

And for those of you starved for SoB models, there should be an offering from Raging Heroes around 2015, so fear not!

I'll be waiting a couple of months to see if they decide to do a print run. If they do, I'll buy it, if they don't, I'll get the digital one. Although a print of those rules would leave them thinner than a Yoko Tsuno album...

 Mathieu Raymond wrote:
And for those of you starved for SoB models, there should be an offering from Raging Heroes around 2015, so fear not!

Although I'm interested, I'm also a bit wary after reading through the current KS thread for RH.

I think the other problem for RH is that a lot of folks who play SOB have plenty of models. RH really needs the codex to pop right around when they launch the KS, then it would take off.