Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Some (slightly depressing) thoughts: When looking at the price of the metal squads and hoping for a new release in plastic at a lower price, note that in the most recent Dark Elf release 10 Witches went from $66 in finecast to $60 in plastic (which some clung to as cheaper, others... said was stupid). Just throwing out there that GW seems recently willing to price niche models at absurd prices when going to plastic kits.

On the other hand, it's worth remembering that when Dark Eldar were re-released their plastic kits were very aggressively priced. So perhaps that can be seen as a bellweather that when GW wants to relaunch a line they are aware they can't shoot the moon on price.

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Just throwing out there that GW seems recently willing to price niche models at absurd prices when going to plastic kits.

This is great news!
Even though some of us already knew

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
Just throwing out there that GW seems recently willing to price niche models at absurd prices when going to plastic kits.

This is great news!
Even though some of us already knew

To be fair, they have always done this. This isn't a recent development. There's always been some sort of weird equation at GW HQ where niche models cost more.

Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

 pretre wrote:
Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

Yeah, by 20% ... while reducing the content by 50%

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

Yeah, by 20% ... and by reducing the content by 50%

I was talking about the DE launch. One could probably also cite the GK launch and a lot of the metal to plastic conversion over the last couple years.

But keep beating that same drum.

 Melissia wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah... call me picky but I want my Adepta Sororitas to be "professional soldiers of god" (as they are in 40k), not "supermodels playing (and badly, at that) at being soldiers during a photo shoot" (as in Raging Heroes).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

What evidence do you have of this?

Because I haven't SEEN any miniature sets that offer women as professional soldiers without making them pin-ups.

It's an untapped market. Just because no sculptor has tried yet doesn't mean that it isn't possible.

And you're right, they're not out yet, but DFG will have an all women unit of professional soldiers. Although I think it'll take a bit of modelling to get them to the "of god" bit.

I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

What really kills the army is the price of everything else over that (save for the Immolator, that kit is awesome and is the same cost as the Rhino).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Of course, they have also reduced prices for some models to drive sales as well.

Yeah, by 20% ... and by reducing the content by 50%

I was talking about the DE launch. One could probably also cite the GK launch and a lot of the metal to plastic conversion over the last couple years.

But keep beating that same drum.

I'm of the mind that Kroot is just trying to troll the Sisters players at this point. It's why he keeps insisting the release is just the WD codex again and again despite evidence of the contrary.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm of the mind that Kroot is just trying to troll the Sisters players at this point. It's why he keeps insisting the release is just the WD codex again and again despite evidence of the contrary.

It is starting to look like that, which is disappointing.

I guess GW saw the 5-model Wych finecast box as an acceptable product, so dropping the price much on the plastic rebox would've been a massive concession from them. They did drop it a teeny bit though, which is cool.

I'm not sure how well it compares to the dark eldar relaunch - as I recall they'd taken the old models off the shelf long, long before the relaunch, so it was more like starting over.

What does it mean for Sisters? I imagine very little since that plastic relaunch has got to be years off.

The only thing that is definate is that:

Their has been some minor point adjustments to the cannoness - Rosarius is cheaper.
The basic Sisters squad can now be just 5 which opens up more possibilities like Immolator spam
Couple of Battle Squad options are cheaper
There are somne Relics - which may or may not be good.

If nothing else changes - we are in a lsightly better position - plus there is at least a legit Codex.
We could loose out if they slam up St Celestine's pts but do little else.

Looking on the positive - we are in a far better place than 6 months ago..........where the whole talk was squattted or not squatted.

 Mr Morden wrote:
The only thing that is definate is that:

Their has been some minor point adjustments to the cannoness - Rosarius is cheaper.
The basic Sisters squad can now be just 5 which opens up more possibilities like Immolator spam
Couple of Battle Squad options are cheaper
There are somne Relics - which may or may not be good.

If nothing else changes - we are in a lsightly better position - plus there is at least a legit Codex.
We could loose out if they slam up St Celestine's pts but do little else.

Looking on the positive - we are in a far better place than 6 months ago..........where the whole talk was squattted or not squatted.

I largely agree with this. I think points increases are unlikely. As long as nothing gets more expensive, we are okay and better off. We'll see on Friday though.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I'm of the mind that Kroot is just trying to troll the Sisters players at this point. It's why he keeps insisting the release is just the WD codex again and again despite evidence of the contrary.

It is starting to look like that, which is disappointing.

Yeah, me and the author:

evildrcheese wrote:Spoke to Cruddence @ Games Day re SoB asking if the digital version is his WD dex. He confirmed it is, hes been involved in the writing of the warlord traits was the impression I got. He also told me they've looked at the scaling issue for faith points and that there's been 'minor' point tweaks.

BTW I own a 3rd edition Witchhunter army. Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, me and the author:

Except, as has been pointed out to you about 10 times in this thread alone:
- New Artwork
- New Fluff
- Changes in Points
- Warlord Traits
- Apoc Formations
- New Relics
- etc, so on.

If it was a PDF scan of the WD dex with Warlord Traits, I'd agree with you. It is not.

BTW I own a 3rd edition Witchhunter army. Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

Witchhunters is dead. Sorry. If you want to play them, you can probably make it work with some combination of SOB, GK and IG. You don't need to barrage us with 'OMG WD DEX' every five minutes because you're not happy your codex from 10 years ago is no longer valid. There's probably a support group you can join with the LatD players though.

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, me and the author:

Except, as has been pointed out to you about 10 times in this thread alone:
- New Artwork
- New Fluff
- Changes in Points
- Warlord Traits
- Apoc Formations
- New Relics
- etc, so on.

You forgot the one-click bundles!
And that you now have to bring an expensive ipad or notebook to the beer and pretzel games, where kids drop everything breakable and adults spill beer on the rest.
I believe the author and you the GW advertising text, call me stubborn.

And even if Apocalypse formations belonged into a Codex (they don't), should I celebrate GW for omitting Sororitas from all official Apocalypse books?

If GW decides, it is worth printing in German, I will have a look at it. If GW thinks it is not worth it, ....

So I think I found out the weakness of a Digital Codex: Very little rumors a week out Has anyone heard anything?

 Melissia wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Keep in mind that Raging Heroes has plans for a full sisters army.

As well as issues with cost, delivery time and not quite fitting the aesthetics of the setting. Not saying that I don't look forward to seeing what they have to put out, but their current kickstarter is not inspiring. The fact that their minis tend to be monopose as well doesn't help.

And a lot of the style of places like Raging Heroes is far too sexualized, even compared to Sisters, and I don't want that in my miniatures.

While I normally agree with you on most of this stuff Mel, I /like/ the sisters a lot. At least the Kurg Shock Troopers, the right mix of pin up and I'm going to shove this boot so far down your throat you'll be wearing it" the boob plate's there, but I dunno if we're ever gonna escape that trope as a unified species. From RH's description of the TGG girls being designed to be ball and socket, I am hoping we'll see some more variance in posing, but then as sisters of battle players with maybe 10 total poses in the entire range (not counting different weapons) can we really complain too loudly about mono pose?

I do want to see a professional grade girl power army. I have for a very long time now. I doubt it's gonna happen any time soon though.

 Kroothawk wrote:
And that you now have to bring an expensive ipad or notebook to the beer and pretzel games, where kids drop everything breakable and adults spill beer on the rest.

If only there were a technology that allowed us to get electronic documents into a print format... And if only the licensing text allowed us to do so for personal use...

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

What really kills the army is the price of everything else over that (save for the Immolator, that kit is awesome and is the same cost as the Rhino)..

Yet the majority of folks are able to buy Space Marines at a discount, which you cannot with sisters, unless buying used. The 10 Sisters Squad with the same load out as the Space Marine tactical box (1 Sergeant, 1 Heavy, 1 Special, 7 Bolters) is more than double the cost =/ ($34 or even cheaper, vs $74 +tax/shipping for the sisters squad).

You can like them all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that I have zero reason to buy any of the pin-up models produced in the RagingHeroes line for either my Sisters of Battle or my Imperial Guard army.

 Kroothawk wrote:
You forgot the one-click bundles!

Sadly, I think the only good thing to come out of those is that it revealed to non-players just how fething the army actually is. It's really ridiculous.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

You miscalculated then, or you paid less than GW is currently charging.

It costs twice as much to purchase a battle sister squad of 10 as compared to a tactical marines squad of 10. And the tactical squad gets more out of its box than the Sisters do.

That's 7.98 dollars per Sororitas (79.80 per squad) model and 4 dollars per Marine (40 per squad) model-- and that's while getting LESS.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Yeah, me and the author:

Except, as has been pointed out to you about 10 times in this thread alone:
- New Artwork
- New Fluff
- Changes in Points
- Warlord Traits
- Apoc Formations
- New Relics
- etc, so on.

You forgot the one-click bundles!
And that you now have to bring an expensive ipad or notebook to the beer and pretzel games, where kids drop everything breakable and adults spill beer on the rest.
I believe the author and you the GW advertising text, call me stubborn.

And even if Apocalypse formations belonged into a Codex (they don't), should I celebrate GW for omitting Sororitas from all official Apocalypse books?

If GW decides, it is worth printing in German, I will have a look at it. If GW thinks it is not worth it, ....

If you have an ebook reader app you can open the BL version on the computer, and you're even allowed to print a copy for personal excuse.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Locrian wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

What really kills the army is the price of everything else over that (save for the Immolator, that kit is awesome and is the same cost as the Rhino)..

Yet the majority of folks are able to buy Space Marines at a discount, which you cannot with sisters, unless buying used. The 10 Sisters Squad with the same load out as the Space Marine tactical box (1 Sergeant, 1 Heavy, 1 Special, 7 Bolters) is more than double the cost =/ ($34 or even cheaper, vs $74 +tax/shipping for the sisters squad).

Discounts from 3rd party sellers don't count unless you want me to bring up how cheap Sisters get on eBay.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
You can like them all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that I have zero reason to buy any of the pin-up models produced in the RagingHeroes line for either my Sisters of Battle or my Imperial Guard army.

 Kroothawk wrote:
You forgot the one-click bundles!

Sadly, I think the only good thing to come out of those is that it revealed to non-players just how fething the army actually is. It's really ridiculous.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I priced my collection recently, and despite the complaints about how expensive Sisters are, the majority of the army is made of models that only charge a little over $5 a model, that's only $1 more/model than the current Space Marine box.

You miscalculated then, or you paid less than GW is currently charging.

It costs twice as much to purchase a battle sister squad of 10 as compared to a tactical marines squad of 10. And the tactical squad gets more out of its box than the Sisters do.

That's 7.98 dollars per Sororitas (79.80 per squad) model and 4 dollars per Marine (40 per squad) model-- and that's while getting LESS.

I said that it's a little over $5 for the BASIC Sister. 17.25/3 is 5.75. I also said that the other models are where Sisters are really getting price screwed.

Again, that's misleading, because Marines get more stuff in their sets than Sisters do.

 Kroothawk wrote:
Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

What, would you prefer they have nothing, until their real update? Before this digital codex, the SoB rules were not obtainable from GW. There was no official way to get their rules. At least now there's a way for people to once again purchase the SoB codex from GW. And we got a lot of extra stuff in there too, which is nice.

 Melissia wrote:
Sadly, I think the only good thing to come out of those is that it revealed to non-players just how fething the army actually is. It's really ridiculous.

It's been odd seeing people complaining about the price of SoB models. I thought it was common knowledge that they're expensive to collect, but apparently not.

 Troike wrote:

It's been odd seeing people complaining about the price of SoB models. I thought it was common knowledge that they're expensive to collect, but apparently not.

Shouldn't be odd, even if they knew they complain

 Troike wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:
Still waiting for a full Codex release, you know, with new miniatures, and not just taking half the units away.

What, would you prefer they have nothing, until their real update?

He's talking about a full Codex: Witchhunters release. Which will never happen now.

 Melissia wrote:
Again, that's misleading, because Marines get more stuff in their sets than Sisters do.

On the flip side it still means a tact Marine with bolter is only a 1.75 cheaper than a bolter Sister.

Does it split off from there? Yes, but the basic Sisters aren't that out of sync with other models which was the point.

Well... 5.75 is 144% of 4. So Sisters are just shy of half again as expensive for the very basic troop models. Basic troops with zero upgrades like special weapons etc. on the sprue.

Prices 44% higher are significantly higher, and seems fairly out of synch to me.

Then again, I haven't bought anything new from GW in probably 3 years, so their other prices might have gotten more insane. But 44% more money for a model which you probably will need more of in an army is pretty salty. I am glad I got my mountain of sisters a little over a decade ago :(

No it doesn't mean that, because you're misusing the statistic in order to prove a false point. The Space Marines are sold as a group and gain a ton of extra stuff, including a gravgun, flamer, meltagun, plasmagun, missile launcher, equipment for their sergeant, and includes back banners, various spare hands, ammo pouches, auspex, and etc etc etc.

The Space Marines are cheaper than you suggest quite simply because they get more stuff with each purchase. You get less stuff and pay more with sisters.

 pretre wrote:

He's talking about a full Codex: Witchhunters release. Which will never happen now.

My point still applies. He seems to be critical of the concept of this digital codex itself. I say it's a vast improvement over our previous situation.

Better a proper digital codex than a codex spread out over two magazine issues.

Agreed - thats why I bought it.