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We don't think associating "liking miniatures that depict sexualised female characters" and "being a loser who can't talk to real women" is kind of low-hanging fruit, then? We're going for it?

xruslanx wrote:

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

How quaintly heteronormative of you.

 Crimson wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

How quaintly heteronormative of you.

I can only assume he's from the planet where LGBT people don't exist

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

I guess every single marketing exec is wrong and you are right.


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 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

True enough, if you are sexually orientated straight and you are male, you obviously do like looking at birds bodies, were just evolved apes after all... I don't like looking at little gakky plastic models for their allure though!

I think that they should make the 40k women look like the 40k men, and thats dog rough, covered in scars, grimy, and wincing, like that picture I posted from the cover of Red and Black, you can hardly tell shes a bird, and having seen plenty of women in body armor and helmets, I can tell you that is indeed the case in real life as well! I couldn't pick the female medic out from the man at 50 yards when I was in Afghanistan, why should they look like slags in miniature form?

I love looking at birds, but proper ones, and if I can't have a proper one because I'm stuck somewhere that there aren't any, then Ill watch one doing explicit X rated things in high definition on my laptop when I feel the urge, but really, whats the point in worry about tiny little plastic soldier models being shapely? Its not like you are going to use them as a sex aid! Why... since laptops and HD screens became so common popular, I even recycled my beloved collection of jazz mags that were handed down to me by an outgoing bloke when I joined 40 commando!

So what the hell use is a leggy model? They seem to occupy that pointless area between not being worth reading and not worth fapping over.. you know.. like how FHM sits in that utterly pointless middle ground because it isn't worth reading like an actual book, and it isn't worth a fap like a jazz mag? Id rather read the back of a bottle of shampoo than a lads mag!

I agree with the posters who want rough looking female soldiers personally, not leggy futuristic prostitutes who take to the battlefield in stilettos, and I dont say that because I dont like tits, I say that because I take my fluff seriously and enjoy reading it all and collecting the novels, so replacing the heavily scarred, thick set, short haired sisters with leggy golden haired pouting slappers holding dainty looking flamethrowers throws the rest of the setting into mockery. I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and I've just been perusing the GW website.... holy fething gak.

I can't actually believe the price they are charging for that stuff.. some third party could make a killing by making some non-slutty stand in soldier girls.

 mattyrm wrote:
I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

 dracpanzer wrote:

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

But maybe they should? Their heavy weapon arsenal is really limited, and Flak Missiles, weak as they are, would still give them some much needed AA. (And then they could have blessed missiles that would gain extra punch against daemons!)

 dracpanzer wrote:

 mattyrm wrote:
I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

You get the point, they look fine as they are, they shouldn't change the aesthetic, juts make more models.

And they definately need some AT, It doesn't make sense for their infantry not to carry some!

Has anyone been watching GW's website change all week?

"1 click collections" Have now come out of the woodwork

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/listProducts.jsp?catId=cat660002a

A regular troop squad is only $101! and is available as a squad for the first time in at least 2 years!

Between not having a current Codex, not getting any support or new models and being twice the price of any other already cost prohibitive army to field GW shouldn't have to wonder why thye don't do well.....

I wonder what flyer they will get access to...

Well this thread went way off topic.

As for prices, yup. That's all I'm going to say a t the moment. Yup.

They aren't the most expensive army you can get from GW however (Krieg and Tallarn seem to take that cake, especially if you go horde).

I'm not going to claim I get why Sisters cost so much. Maybe they're burning through the molds faster because of the small batch runs so it's in the cost, maybe it's just the small batch runs themselves being the culprit, I don't know.

Either way I don't think GW is trying to sell new players on Sisters, I think they're trying to show the army some support and get them rules that you can actually play with and then bring out the real deal next year (yes, I'm still fairly confident that next year is a good time to bring them out in plastic, and until the rumor schedule gets that far out and starts proving me wrong that's what I'll be sticking with).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 logg_frogg wrote:
Has anyone been watching GW's website change all week?

"1 click collections" Have now come out of the woodwork

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/listProducts.jsp?catId=cat660002a

A regular troop squad is only $101! and is available as a squad for the first time in at least 2 years!

Between not having a current Codex, not getting any support or new models and being twice the price of any other already cost prohibitive army to field GW shouldn't have to wonder why thye don't do well.....

I wonder what flyer they will get access to...

They announced a whole list of One-Clicks on Saturday. It really wasn't a surprise to me at least.

Don't know about a flyer, maybe a peice of wargear to upgrade the Retributors to skyfire their weapons or something?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They aren't the most expensive army you can get from GW however (Krieg and Tallarn seem to take that cake, especially if you go horde).

Forge World doesn't count.

I think its amusing that the Immolator is still the same price as the Rhino

All I hope is that the sales numbers from the digital edition and some of the mini's drive them to produce both more mini's and a real print book.

 Breotan wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
They aren't the most expensive army you can get from GW however (Krieg and Tallarn seem to take that cake, especially if you go horde).

Forge World doesn't count.

Why doesn't FW count? Because we want to set arbitrary limits on what counts to prove ourselves right despite it being the same company? Even if you rule out FW because of "reasons" Tallarn is an all metal Guard army made by GW. It's priced at Sisters prices, but can end up being far more expensive to build an army out of (unless you got Vets, then you're about the same).

And just so people can stop wandering in every seven posts and saying stuff is expensive, here are the one clicks:



And yes we get it, they're expensive, okay?

 Mr Morden wrote:
I think its amusing that the Immolator is still the same price as the Rhino

Well, gotta give 'em something. My gut says if you run bare minimum metal troops and then fill out the rest of your army with plastic tanks the army's about the top end of normal price wise... but personally I'd find very little fun in doing that since I'm no treadhead, and if I were I'd probably do IG for the variety. Sisters range is in dire need of updating with plastics. The end.

And those of us htat have been paying attention have been saying this for years now

 Melissia wrote:
And those of us htat have been paying attention have been saying this for years now

*raises hand* I'm in that boat. I bought almost my entire collection from GW or my FLGs (who was paying extra to order them direct from GW (the discount he got as a retailer was smaller)). I don't regret it, but it's amazing how much talk I hear about Sisters being expensive whenever someone wants to start hem only to see so many posts about how expensive they are being posted here. I'm pretty sure it's been said for years and people just weren't paying attention.

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

 mattyrm wrote:

xruslanx wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Ah, so you admit you have no evidence to support your assertion that non-pinup models don't sell because they don't shove tits in everyone's face (instead of the real reason, which is quite simply they're not selling because no one is fething making them)... which is just as good as admitting you are wrong.

I guess every single marketing exec is wrong and you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lockark wrote:

One of the funny things that came out of that was a few people trying to say that the people on DakkaDakka just hate the female body, and that none of us want boobies in our wargames. (Some sort of straw-man argument trying to say we were the ones being sexist...)

Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

True enough, if you are sexually orientated straight and you are male, you obviously do like looking at birds bodies, were just evolved apes after all... I don't like looking at little gakky plastic models for their allure though!

I think that they should make the 40k women look like the 40k men, and thats dog rough, covered in scars, grimy, and wincing, like that picture I posted from the cover of Red and Black, you can hardly tell shes a bird, and having seen plenty of women in body armor and helmets, I can tell you that is indeed the case in real life as well! I couldn't pick the female medic out from the man at 50 yards when I was in Afghanistan, why should they look like slags in miniature form?

I love looking at birds, but proper ones, and if I can't have a proper one because I'm stuck somewhere that there aren't any, then Ill watch one doing explicit X rated things in high definition on my laptop when I feel the urge, but really, whats the point in worry about tiny little plastic soldier models being shapely? Its not like you are going to use them as a sex aid! Why... since laptops and HD screens became so common popular, I even recycled my beloved collection of jazz mags that were handed down to me by an outgoing bloke when I joined 40 commando!

So what the hell use is a leggy model? They seem to occupy that pointless area between not being worth reading and not worth fapping over.. you know.. like how FHM sits in that utterly pointless middle ground because it isn't worth reading like an actual book, and it isn't worth a fap like a jazz mag? Id rather read the back of a bottle of shampoo than a lads mag!

I agree with the posters who want rough looking female soldiers personally, not leggy futuristic prostitutes who take to the battlefield in stilettos, and I dont say that because I dont like tits, I say that because I take my fluff seriously and enjoy reading it all and collecting the novels, so replacing the heavily scarred, thick set, short haired sisters with leggy golden haired pouting slappers holding dainty looking flamethrowers throws the rest of the setting into mockery. I want birds with scars and wolf lean physiques with plenty of thin wiry muscle from yomping across wastelands carrying rocket launchers!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh yeah, and I've just been perusing the GW website.... holy fething gak.

I can't actually believe the price they are charging for that stuff.. some third party could make a killing by making some non-slutty stand in soldier girls.

Hahahah, and there's Matty for ya! Perfectly said. Have an exalt.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
And those of us htat have been paying attention have been saying this for years now

*raises hand* I'm in that boat. I bought almost my entire collection from GW or my FLGs (who was paying extra to order them direct from GW (the discount he got as a retailer was smaller)). I don't regret it, but it's amazing how much talk I hear about Sisters being expensive whenever someone wants to start hem only to see so many posts about how expensive they are being posted here. I'm pretty sure it's been said for years and people just weren't paying attention.

It's been stupid expensive since I got into the hobby many moons ago.

 ClockworkZion wrote:


...

And just so people can stop wandering in every seven posts and saying stuff is expensive, here are the one clicks:



And yes we get it, they're expensive, okay?

It's not the expense that gets me about the one-clicks (as this is not news) but how useless they are. Does anyone field squads like that? They suffer from the one of each weapon syndrome. Do you need stormbolters and melta guns in the same unit? Does anyone field arcoflagelents in a conclave, much less 6 of them? So not only are you not saving any money, but you are getting a unit that sucks. But think of the clicks you save!

I know most of the one-clicks have this problem, but some actually pretend to be useful...

godswildcard wrote:

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

Other than saying you'll need bolter Sisters and some Superiors it's hard to say until the book hits. I think I know just enough to say I don't know what you should get until the book drops.

 Nevelon wrote:

It's not the expense that gets me about the one-clicks (as this is not news) but how useless they are. Does anyone field squads like that? They suffer from the one of each weapon syndrome. Do you need stormbolters and melta guns in the same unit? Does anyone field arcoflagelents in a conclave, much less 6 of them? So not only are you not saving any money, but you are getting a unit that sucks. But think of the clicks you save!

I know most of the one-clicks have this problem, but some actually pretend to be useful...

I run my BSS usually either like the Celestians are done, or by replacing that flamer with a melta, so they aren't all bad.

If arcos went back to the massed packs they used to be available in C:WH, that might be useful. No idea really.

Honestly none of these are bad packs to get a group of models with to flesh out a collection, but if you have something in mind buying the unit in parts might be a better choice.

godswildcard wrote:

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

For my wife's army (her first time playing or even painting) we are going with the following to start:

HQ
Saint Celestine $20

Troops

10 Sister squad (Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum Imperialis) $83.90
Rhino/Immolator $37

10 Sister squad (Melta Gun, Heavy Bolter, Simulacrum Imperialis) $83.90
Rhino/Immolator $37

That is JUST enough to have a legal army, at around $260. We will need to add more as we go, but that will be enough for her to start learning the game

 ClockworkZion wrote:

godswildcard wrote:

So for those newbies out there, I'm going to ask you veterans:

With the new AS codex coming out, if I'm wanting a 1000 point army, maximizing bang for my buck but using GW retail as a base price (which we will then take of from FLGS discounts and ebay) what do I buy? Include the $40 for the codex.

Other than saying you'll need bolter Sisters and some Superiors it's hard to say until the book hits. I think I know just enough to say I don't know what you should get until the book drops.

.

Fair enough! Expect a new thread to open promptly on the 19th!

I really hope they redo them, GW have really upped their game with their plastics lately, and the cultists in DV showed what they can do with smaller scale, more human looking characters covered in chains and gubbins and things.

Its a potential goldmine, even I would consider buying a brand new sisters army if they made some new models.

As has been said many times before, they are just allergic to making money, because I guarantee a few brand new sisters troop options would shift stacks more models than those tired old metals, one click bundles or no.

 Crimson wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:

I like the style of the current line just fine. But I have to put my foot down against this, Sisters don't carry rocket launchers.....

But maybe they should? Their heavy weapon arsenal is really limited, and Flak Missiles, weak as they are, would still give them some much needed AA. (And then they could have blessed missiles that would gain extra punch against daemons!)

Forget Flak Missiles, just let Exorcists ignore the penalty for firing at aircraft.

(Incidentally, I recently found out that my stance on Sisters and aircraft is actually the unofficial motto of the Israeli anti-aircraft unit: ""If I don't get to fly, NO ONE gets to fly.")

 Melissia wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that pin-ups sell better than "professional soldiers of god".

What evidence do you have of this?

I don't have any hard evidence, but I think you really ought to lower your esteem of humanity as a whole .

xruslanx wrote:
Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

Actually, obsessing over plastic T'n'A will likely make you look like some immature little boy, and unwanted attention at some woman's T'n'A will make you an awful jerk. But maybe that's part of what you call being a man .

Mr Morden wrote:Celestian Sqaud - +1 WS, +1I, option to take Blessed blades (Relic blades) or similar

Artificer armor. Definitely. Would we get the cheapest 2+ unit, that would definitely be awesome ! And/or maybe Rosarius for the whole squad.

Crimson wrote:

xruslanx wrote:
Liking T 'n' A doesn't make you a sexist, it makes you a man.

How quaintly heteronormative of you.

If gays don't fantasize about tits^w nipples actually, and asses, then please explain to me the movie Batman & Robin .

(edited down to this because I royally effed up the quotes...)

Marttyrm: Yeaaah... I mean FFS, many of these are the same models they were selling in second edition, almost fifteen years ago! Some of these models are older than the people buying them!

Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl: Please, as if it was possible for me to have a lower opinion of the more machismo aspects of Russian culture. This is the same culture that glorifies rape and sexism and is approaching continental African levels of homophobia.

As for Batman and Robin... I thought most people preferred to deny that movie's existence?

As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

alphaecho wrote:
As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release, but perhaps instead an idea of how strong the interest is already and in turn how much they should probably stock. I'm betting at this point there are numbers for how many codexes they sell, and of those, how many on average (percent wise) are digital. They also have sales figures from a number of previous releases to work backwards from and determine roughly how popular Sisters might be if they got a release, say tomorrow. This would help them set inventory levels and production goals that they don't otherwise have data on for the army in terms of how much they'll need for that update.

But I'm just tossing my own thoughts out there on this, so I remain capable of being wrong.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release, but perhaps instead an idea of how strong the interest is already and in turn how much they should probably stock. I'm betting at this point there are numbers for how many codexes they sell, and of those, how many on average (percent wise) are digital. They also have sales figures from a number of previous releases to work backwards from and determine roughly how popular Sisters might be if they got a release, say tomorrow. This would help them set inventory levels and production goals that they don't otherwise have data on for the army in terms of how much they'll need for that update.

But I'm just tossing my own thoughts out there on this, so I remain capable of being wrong.

Don't we all?

I'm in a lucky situation as I have had a full Sisters army since the original Codex release. I even picked up the Black Library Stern/ Hand limited figures. When Witchunters came out, I splashed for the Exorcist, new Immolator, a Forge World Repressor plus a smattering of new miniatures (Canoness, Sisters Superior and so on). I could be the type of customer Digital Editions are after for this release. I may even treat myself to a new Immolator! I'll be over the moon if I get to use Stern as a Jump Pack Palatine again!

alphaecho wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

alphaecho wrote:
As has been said, it could just be market research.

They know people have Sisters armies. How many are willing to purchase the e-book?

Facebook likes surged by a couple of thousand. If that translates to sales of the Codex, it could lead to resources being allocated to developing Sisters for a full release.

More resources could be allocated if there is a jump in purchasing models from the online store. By that I mean definite evidence of Armies being purchased rather than existing collector's topping up. If customers are willing to pony up for those prices how many would go for a plastic release (assuming a 10-figure Troops choice in the same price range as a SM Tactical Squad)?

I doubt this move will translate to "if" Sisters get a full release, but perhaps instead an idea of how strong the interest is already and in turn how much they should probably stock. I'm betting at this point there are numbers for how many codexes they sell, and of those, how many on average (percent wise) are digital. They also have sales figures from a number of previous releases to work backwards from and determine roughly how popular Sisters might be if they got a release, say tomorrow. This would help them set inventory levels and production goals that they don't otherwise have data on for the army in terms of how much they'll need for that update.

But I'm just tossing my own thoughts out there on this, so I remain capable of being wrong.

Don't we all?

Perhaps, but I like to freely admit that I retain the right to be wrong at all times.

alphaecho wrote:
I'm in a lucky situation as I have had a full Sisters army since the original Codex release. I even picked up the Black Library Stern/ Hand limited figures. When Witchunters came out, I splashed for the Exorcist, new Immolator, a Forge World Repressor plus a smattering of new miniatures (Canoness, Sisters Superior and so on). I could be the type of customer Digital Editions are after for this release. I may even treat myself to a new Immolator! I'll be over the moon if I get to use Stern as a Jump Pack Palatine again!

Congrats! I wasn't playing back then (didn't start until the end of 3rd, missed 4th completely, started again in 5th) and even then I didn't start with Sisters.

If I knew then what I know now, I might have.