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 Troike wrote:
There were also some new quotes (at least I assume they were new). I liked the one where an Immolator fries some Warp Spiders while they were busy being arrogant behind some ruins. The units also had their fluff expanded a bit, a prime example being how Seraphim Superiors are highly respected within their Order.

The Eldar BBQ story is from the 1997 Sisters of Battle Codex, page 47. It's a book worth looking out for.

 Troike wrote:

Regarding the picture, what's amusing is that from a fluff standpoint, it's the opposite way around. 5e Celestine became (and remains) immortal and unkillable in the fluff. Heck, Celestine herself even says that she won't die until the Emperor claims her, in this codex.

You mean people think she is immortal and she haven't died thus far. And obviously if she dies, people will say 'it was Emperor's will.' Now rules-wise she is about as much immortal as Yarrick.

Troike wrote:I dunno, I thought we got quite a meaty helping of fluff.

Not that much. There was more new stuff in WD293UK. Which was a 6-page-long WD article… and the single most interesting source of fluff for the Sisters, with the never-again-mentioned Sabines.

Troike wrote:5e Celestine became (and remains) immortal and unkillable in the fluff. Heck, Celestine herself even says that she won't die until the Emperor claims her, in this codex.

Well, that's what she says, yes. Vandire said he was too busy to die, too, and we know how that ended up. As far as we know, she is just lucky and very willing not to give up, not some magic undead.

 Crimson wrote:
You mean people think she is immortal and she haven't died thus far.

Nah, the fluff still says that she's immortal, IMO. It still talks about her magically showing up at times of need, and even says that every time she is dealt a mortal blow, she miraculously comes back to life.

And as I said, Celestine herself says so this time around, but I'm guessing that you're not going to see her as a reliable source?

 Crimson wrote:
Now rules-wise she is about as much immortal as Yarrick.

I think this was done out of a need for rules balance, though. The fluff still very much has her as unkillable.


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
not some magic undead.

She's very clearly magical. her fluff has her flying around on a "column of divine radiance", and instilling feelings of adoration or terror in people who look at her, depending on the purity of their souls.

And, of course, she is able to spontaneously appear and vanish again. Pretty magical, I'd say.

She is not said to 'magically' appear and vanish. She appears in times of need. That's not necessarily magical. People seem to have this idea that she pops out of thin air like Q in Star Trek but that is just an extrapolation and not actually stated in the fluff.

And even if her fluff, the description of her 'miraculous' resurrection starts with 'it is said...', ie. even the propaganda filled fluff states it as hearsay. Now of course she is described as supernatural, because that's what the people of the Imperium believe, but that in itself is no proof that she actually is. (I'm not saying that she can't be, though.)

 Troike wrote:
She's very clearly magical. her fluff has her flying around on a "column of divine radiance"

That may be the same kind of magical as Vandire's “magic immunity to lasgun shoot to the head” !

We know she has died at least once. She was a Sister Repentia, died. And came back as Saint Celestine (more or less). She's a cross between Mephiston and Jesus.

 Still Standing wrote:
We know she has died at least once. She was a Sister Repentia, died. And came back as Saint Celestine (more or less). She's a cross between Mephiston and Jesus.

You mean they thought she died.

 Crimson wrote:
eople seem to have this idea that she pops out of thin air like Q in Star Trek but that is just an extrapolation and not actually stated in the fluff.

So... What else happens? How else would she suddenly appear in desperate battles, only to vanish again afterwards? I know it's worded vaguely, but I'm not seeing any other explanation beyond magical shenanigans.

The Promethium War is a specific example of this, with her appearing and then vanishing again.

 Crimson wrote:
And even if her fluff, the description of her 'miraculous' resurrection starts with 'it is said...', ie. even the propaganda filled fluff states it as hearsay

Though the newest description for her Act of Faith does outright state that it's death that she's coming back from.


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 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
That may be the same kind of magical as Vandire's “magic immunity to lasgun shoot to the head” !

Though we, the readers, know that he was cheating. With Celestine, I don't think that her abilities can be explained as results of technology or sheer willpower.

My personal theory is she's a "daemon prince" of the Star Child.

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Troike wrote:
The units also had their fluff expanded a bit, a prime example being how Seraphim Superiors are highly respected within their Order.

Erm ... you consider that an expansion of fluff?
Well, maybe considering the lack of respect shown by GW: Seraphim Superiors still not available in Europe.

Very underwhelmed by the fluff in the codex, nothing I haven't seen before. Really like the fact that priests gain a much more important role, just feels right with priests leading Sisters into battle. My biggest gripe is that the codex seems to be based around stock levels. Kyrinov sold out? He gets dropped [leaving us with only 2! special characters]. 'Fine'cast sales not what they should be? Give the option to take 60 arco-flagellants/DCAs/Crusaders. Seraphim superior is, somewhat strangely, an optional upgrade. Is that because again she is sold out? Just leaves a bitter taste that decisions are taken due to whatever is not selling or is out of stock.

 Troike wrote:

So... What else happens? How else would she suddenly appear in desperate battles, only to vanish again afterwards? I know it's worded vaguely, but I'm not seeing any other explanation beyond magical shenanigans.

The Promethium War is a specific example of this, with her appearing and then vanishing again.

She wanders around the galaxy like a crazy person, hitchhiking on starships an occasionally stumbles into battles? I don't know, heroes, 'mysteriously appear and disappear' in fiction all the time, without them having any magical powers. It's a narrative conceit.

Though the newest description for her Act of Faith does outright state that it's death that she's coming back from.

As befits her legend. That doesn't mean that this is what actually happens. Is Yarrick magical undead too?

Though we, the readers, know that he was cheating. With Celestine, I don't think that her abilities can be explained as results of technology or sheer willpower.

Also luck. But I think they can be explained like that just fine, especially as we consider what other individuals in the same setting are capable of. Of course you don't have to. I personally prefer all that Sororita faith stuff, saints included, to be left vague. The Emperor might really be watching over them, or they could be just delusional fanatics.

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Troike wrote:
The units also had their fluff expanded a bit, a prime example being how Seraphim Superiors are highly respected within their Order.

Erm ... you consider that an expansion of fluff?
Well, maybe considering the lack of respect shown by GW: Seraphim Superiors still not available in Europe.

Very underwhelmed by the fluff in the codex, nothing I haven't seen before. Really like the fact that priests gain a much more important role, just feels right with priests leading Sisters into battle. My biggest gripe is that the codex seems to be based around stock levels. Kyrinov sold out? He gets dropped [leaving us with only 2! special characters]. 'Fine'cast sales not what they should be? Give the option to take 60 arco-flagellants/DCAs/Crusaders. Seraphim superior is, somewhat strangely, an optional upgrade. Is that because again she is sold out? Just leaves a bitter taste that decisions are taken due to whatever is not selling or is out of stock.

I had my cynic hat on when I first saw the codex coming out and looking at the bundles I was thinking GW might have been wanting to try and shift some stale product before the new shiny plastics come in...

 tyrannosaurus wrote:

 Kroothawk wrote:

 Troike wrote:
The units also had their fluff expanded a bit, a prime example being how Seraphim Superiors are highly respected within their Order.

Erm ... you consider that an expansion of fluff?
Well, maybe considering the lack of respect shown by GW: Seraphim Superiors still not available in Europe.

Very underwhelmed by the fluff in the codex, nothing I haven't seen before. Really like the fact that priests gain a much more important role, just feels right with priests leading Sisters into battle. My biggest gripe is that the codex seems to be based around stock levels. Kyrinov sold out? He gets dropped [leaving us with only 2! special characters]. 'Fine'cast sales not what they should be? Give the option to take 60 arco-flagellants/DCAs/Crusaders. Seraphim superior is, somewhat strangely, an optional upgrade. Is that because again she is sold out? Just leaves a bitter taste that decisions are taken due to whatever is not selling or is out of stock.

Like I said, Codex: Priests (and their bitches)

Old faq has been pulled. Hopefully that means a new one is incoming.


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 streamdragon wrote:
Like I said, Codex: Priests (and their bitches)

If you were aware of the history of the army, you would know that this is far from the first time that priests and ecclesiarchy were a central part of the list.

Keep flogging that talking point though.

 pretre wrote:
Old faq has been pulled. Hopefully that means a new one is incoming.


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 streamdragon wrote:
Like I said, Codex: Priests (and their bitches)

If you were aware of the history of the army, you would know that this is far from the first time that priests and ecclesiarchy were a central part of the list.

Keep flogging that talking point though.

Some people just fail to understand what "Militant Arm of the Ecclesiarchy" means I suppose.

I think the new option to bring large amounts of Arco-Flagellants is kind of neat. We get a way to provide (relatively) cheap screening units, and the Conclaves give the army some nice combat counter punch without messing with the Sisters themselves too much. Even outside of that the Priests aren't a bad buff to the army either and they're points cost makes sense (10pt model + 15pt Rosarius). They're not too overpowered, provide some nice buffs and fit the army nicely. I think some people just have to be Negative Nancies about everything though.

Now I just need a cheap arcoflagellant counts-as. Hmm. Redemptionists? Or do you think the guns detract from that?

Oh and something I forgot: the Ecclesiarchy employing large numbers of Arco-Flagellants is pretty fluffy. Someone has to punish the damned and we use to only get them through bringing Priests before.


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 pretre wrote:
Now I just need a cheap arcoflagellant counts-as. Hmm. Redemptionists? Or do you think the guns detract from that?

Just use regular Flagellants if you don't want Arco-Flagellants.

 Crimson wrote:
She wanders around the galaxy like a crazy person, hitchhiking on starships an occasionally stumbles into battles?

But I don't see how mere wandering, or hitchhiking, could continually get here right into the heart of an intense warzone, preciesely when she needed to be there.

 Crimson wrote:
As befits her legend. That doesn't mean that this is what actually happens. Is Yarrick magical undead too?

But does Yarrirck's ability say that it's him coming back from death?

 Crimson wrote:
The Emperor might really be watching over them, or they could be just delusional fanatics.

I'm of the opinion that the Emperor either doesn't really have a hand in all of the "miraculous" things that happen to the Sisters, or that he does have some small influence on things. For example, as Still Standing touched upon, it's very easy to view Celestine as a sort of Daemon Prince of the Emperor, if you're so inclined.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I think some people just have to be Negative Nancies about everything though.

I normally try to avoid making points like this... but yes, I think there's some truth in that, some people have gotten into an overly negative mindset regarding the Sisters, IMO. There were some people who were still throwing around "Squat" when this codex came out, and insisted that we only got this because for some reason GW isn't allowed to drop and army ever again and is thus "forced" to make updates for the SoB.

 pretre wrote:
Old faq has been pulled. Hopefully that means a new one is incoming.


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 streamdragon wrote:
Like I said, Codex: Priests (and their bitches)

If you were aware of the history of the army, you would know that this is far from the first time that priests and ecclesiarchy were a central part of the list.

Keep flogging that talking point though.

And if you were a long-time fan of the army, you should know that this is far from the first time that at least some players have had a problem with GW "forcing" priests on players who would rather have a Sisters of Battle army that is composed of, well, Sisters of Battle and not all the other Ecclesiarchy freak show models...

Valete,


JohnS

They aren't forcing them on you. You can make a perfectly legal army without them. It makes sense that an army containing a wider variety of elements of the churches armies would be more powerful than one which is limited to a narrow spectrum.

 cygnnus wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Old faq has been pulled. Hopefully that means a new one is incoming.


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 streamdragon wrote:
Like I said, Codex: Priests (and their bitches)

If you were aware of the history of the army, you would know that this is far from the first time that priests and ecclesiarchy were a central part of the list.

Keep flogging that talking point though.

And if you were a long-time fan of the army, you should know that this is far from the first time that at least some players have had a problem with GW "forcing" priests on players who would rather have a Sisters of Battle army that is composed of, well, Sisters of Battle and not all the other Ecclesiarchy freak show models...

Valete,


JohnS

The Ecclesiarchy has been a part of the army since it was an army. I fail to see how this is something that's being forced when it's something that is such a deeply ingrained part of the army. It's like complaining that Spaces Marines have bolters.

 cygnnus wrote:
And if you were a long-time fan of the army, you should know that this is far from the first time that at least some players have had a problem with GW "forcing" priests on players who would rather have a Sisters of Battle army that is composed of, well, Sisters of Battle and not all the other Ecclesiarchy freak show models...

I'm assuming you're talking about the freak show backlash at C:WH. I'm talking about the fact that C:SOB (2nd edition), Codex Black Book (3rd edition rulebook), Codex Chapter Approved (3rd Edition WHite Dwarf) were all very priest centric and had priests and your 'freak show' models taking a major role.

Know your SOB history.


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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Now I just need a cheap arcoflagellant counts-as. Hmm. Redemptionists? Or do you think the guns detract from that?

Just use regular Flagellants if you don't want Arco-Flagellants.

I don't have 60 flagellants. I do have 60 redemptionists.

 pretre wrote:

 cygnnus wrote:
And if you were a long-time fan of the army, you should know that this is far from the first time that at least some players have had a problem with GW "forcing" priests on players who would rather have a Sisters of Battle army that is composed of, well, Sisters of Battle and not all the other Ecclesiarchy freak show models...

I'm assuming you're talking about the freak show backlash at C:WH. I'm talking about the fact that C:SOB (2nd edition), Codex Black Book (3rd edition rulebook), Codex Chapter Approved (3rd Edition WHite Dwarf) were all very priest centric and had priests and your 'freak show' models taking a major role.

Know your SOB history.


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 ClockworkZion wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Now I just need a cheap arcoflagellant counts-as. Hmm. Redemptionists? Or do you think the guns detract from that?

Just use regular Flagellants if you don't want Arco-Flagellants.

I don't have 60 flagellants. I do have 60 redemptionists.

I'd just make sure your opponent knows what is what then.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And if you were
I'd just make sure your opponent knows what is what then.

That's what I'm asking. If you were my opponent at a local store tournament, would that be cool or annoying.

And I only have 40 without special weapons.

 pretre wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
And if you were
I'd just make sure your opponent knows what is what then.

That's what I'm asking. If you were my opponent at a local store tournament, would that be cool or annoying.

And I only have 40 without special weapons.

Personally I'm pretty laid back about it, but I'd ask your local game store as I don't know what sorts of players they are.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Some people just fail to understand what "Militant Arm of the Ecclesiarchy" means I suppose.

Guess it means that the civilians (priests) accompanying them are the best unit with the most firepower

Funny 1850 List

Uriah
20 SIsters with MM/Flamer, VSS, Simulacrum
5 Priests, 1 With Litanies
Aegis with Quad
3x 8 Arcos/2 Crusaders
1 x 9 Arcos/1 Crusader
2 x 5 BSS with HF/F in TL-MM Immo
Dominions (6) with 4 Melta, VSS, Simulacrum in Rhino
3 x Exorcists

Uriah gives all of the Arcos Fearless and Counter Attack. He chills with the 20 sisters. Pass Priests around to either the arcos or the BSS/Doms. Wall of flesh charging forward.

Still Standing wrote:I'm talking about the fact that C:SOB (2nd edition), Codex Black Book (3rd edition rulebook), Codex Chapter Approved (3rd Edition WHite Dwarf) were all very priest centric and had priests and your 'freak show' models taking a major role.

They had the priests, but as far as I know, they had no freak show, i.e. no arcoflagellants, no DCA, no crusader, but some good old frateris militia instead. They were the Ecclesiarchy, not the Inquisitor The Game residue…

 Kroothawk wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Some people just fail to understand what "Militant Arm of the Ecclesiarchy" means I suppose.

Guess it means that the civilians (priests) accompanying them are the best unit with the most firepower

Guess the squeaky wheel doesn't shut up even when it gets greased.