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Hi guys,

I'm a total newb. I've been an off and on GW collector for about 20 years but have mainly been into fantasy. A friend at work plays 40K and it didn't take him much effort to convince me to get into it. I've promised him I will front up with a 1500pt army within 3 months to face his Tau army.

I have chosen, for better or worse, the Dark Angels. I chose the Dark Angels primarily because I wanted to field a lot of Terminators and liked the colour scheme.

I asked my mate for his Tau 1500pt list for our initial confrontation to give me some chance and because he already knows what I'm likely to field. I'd really like to beat him on my armies first outing and was hoping I could get some tips here.

His list is as follows;

Commander - plasma, iridium, fusion, shield drones, injector
HQ Guard Crisis Suit - shield drones, multispec, command, drone controller, neuroweb jammer
HQ Guard Crisis Suit - gun drones, missile, plasma

Commander - plasma, fusion, gun drones, engram chip

4 x 12 firewarriors - shas'ui

5 x pathfinders - shas'ui

Riptide - plasma, stimulant injector, ion, 2 drones

Hammerhead - submunitions, dispruption pod


At the moment my list looks like this;

Belial

7 x Termis - 4xTH/SS, 2xLC, 1x AC

5 x Deathwing Knights

5 x Termis - CML

Deathwing Land Raider - Multi Melta (Transport for Knights)

Dreadnought - Venerable, Extra Armour, AC, Drop Pod

I'm pretty much convinced that these are the models I want to have but not sure on the weapons / options and the tactics against the Tau list (eg. AC vs CML, TH/SS vs Lightning Claws or regular Land Raider vs Crusader etc). I could drop the dreadnought and 2 terminators out of Belials squad and put in something else instead though. Wanted to keep the model count low to speed up the painting process (which usually takes me a while).

Plan is roughly to get into close combat as quickly as possible. Belial and the 7 assault termis as well as the 5 man Termi squad with CML Deathwing assault into the Tau lines on a flank while the Dreadnought Drop Pods in on turn one to provide a bit of support fire. Meanwhile, the Land Raider moves in to get the Knights into assault as quickly as possible and uses it's heavy weapons to try and take out his hammerhead / riptide.

Any comments, thoughts or advice appreciated. Like I said, I'm a total newb so any advice would be really great.

At this points level, there are not enough models to survive the torrent of overwatch fire. If you want to run the Knights, drop the rest of the Terminators and run tacticals.

You can't count on your Raider making it to the other side with a hammerhead and highly mobile fusion blasters on the table. Both will make a mess of your vehicles.

Like you said, close combat is the way to go. Markerlights will make his other stuff better, but he's not running many. To properly initiate on his lines, you'll need to assault as many units as possible with as many of your units as possible. This reduces the amount of overwatch fire you'll receive. Going in piecemeal will just get your units shredded. Go all in or don't go at all.

Hmm its gonna be tough. Could he run 5 sterguards in a pod loaded up on combi melta to try melt the hammerhead first turn? Otherwise the land raider will get pulped.

scommy wrote:
Hmm its gonna be tough. Could he run 5 sterguards in a pod loaded up on combi melta to try melt the hammerhead first turn? Otherwise the land raider will get pulped.

Dark Angels don't get Sternguard sadly. :(

Dread in a drop pod with Multimelta? It's the only thing I can think of off the bat. That's if you want to Alpha strike it. Past melting vehicles it can't do much.

The problem is you will have those pathfinders light up your landraider with 2-3 markerlights. If he is smart then the riptide and hammerhead will take it out turn 1 (or disable it).

If I was your friend, I would clump all my units together for overwatch - and there is no risk since you have zero templates in your list. If your squad with belial assaulted one of his firewarriors then you would have 96 pulserifle shots incoming: 48 would hit, 32 wounds, and you will fail 5 terminator saves. (If the commander and his guards are closeby it will be even worse since they have ap1 and 2 weapons).

The riptide could always just assault your dreadnought and win which also poses problems.

I really can't see a deathwing army standing a chance against Tau (Terminator heavy builds are almost a free win for me). Deathwing unfortunately isn't a very competitive build - it works much better when mixed with ravenwing or standard dark angel marines to get your body count up.

Graymalkin wrote:

scommy wrote:
Hmm its gonna be tough. Could he run 5 sterguards in a pod loaded up on combi melta to try melt the hammerhead first turn? Otherwise the land raider will get pulped.

Dark Angels don't get Sternguard sadly. :(

Yes we do. They're called Company Veterans.

That looks a lot like my freinds Tau army. And well he almost always beats me. The problem is the Riptide is very hard to kill, the Hammerheard gets it 5+ cover if it moves and the firewarriors get like a million overwatch shots. Oh and don't get me started on markalights.......

agent1320

Sorry to say it, but that DW army is going to get eaten alive. I have played DA for 10 years and right now pure deathwing is just not not going to win. It is 'cool' army don't get me wrong, but competitive they are not. They excel at killing other small elite armies, which are incredibly scarce nowadays because they aren't very good unfortunately.

DW really need backup in the form of Ravenwing or regular green DA. I would suggest whirlwinds for very cheap (75pts each I believe) backup and for some pie plates that ignore his cover and fry fire warriors like none other. For 150 points a pair of them in invaluable against gunlines, especally tau. It will force him to spread out a bit more, preventing him from getting all his bull**** supporting overwatch nonsense.

To deal with the riptide, and something that can actually be fast and survive the trek across the board, I would suggest this squad:

Librarian (level 1 or 2)
- Bike, Power Field Generator, Auspex

Accompanied by:
Ravenwing Command Squad
- Apothecary
- Grenade Launcher
- Ravenwing Banner (for hti and run pass)

It comes out to be pretty expensive, but they will all have a 4++ save because of the PFG librarian, all have plasma talons (glorious), the librarian's auspex will reduce the tau's cover save (good for plasma talons) and the grenade launcher can reduce the T of the riptide to make those plasmas even more effective. Of course, these guys will be a MASSIVE fire magnet. I might suggest putting them behind the land raider, librarian in front to let his PFG also effect the Land Raider. That gives you a 4++ venerable land raider, full of knights that will kick the crap out of tau, backed up by 4++ black knights.

It's a deathstar, but it might be your only chance of gettign everyone there at the same time. Use the whirlwinds to drop tempaltes from afar. He'll want to clump to concentrate fire on the bikes, but get hammered by the templates, or he'll spread out, and you can target one area of his gunline with your whole army.

Keep a few units of deathwing in reserve or use DA tacticals in drop pods for disruption and taking objectives.

Pro tip: if you play kill points Tau will win. They don't have to move, and they can stack up in an impenetrable laser caste that you will never be able to get close enough to in order to actually earn any kill points. :/ I know from experience. And I had all deep striking and bikes. Still didn't get anywhere close it seems.

- VardenV2

Wow, go to sleep for a few hours and wake up to a lot of replies. Thanks a lot.

Pity the situation appears grim for me though lol. It sounds like I'm going to be the one getting limbs removed non-surgically...

VardenV2, I'll look into your suggestion of a Librarian and Ravenwing Command Squad. Thanks. Although my main priority was just getting models that I like and that I want to paint and not to worry about how competitive they will be at this stage I can't deny that I'm very competitive in nature and would really like to have an army at least capable of beating my friends Tau. It sounds like there isn't much hope though.

What should I remove to get the points for the Ravenwing Command Squad and Lib? Going to look at the Codex now.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Graymalkin wrote:

scommy wrote:
Hmm its gonna be tough. Could he run 5 sterguards in a pod loaded up on combi melta to try melt the hammerhead first turn? Otherwise the land raider will get pulped.

Dark Angels don't get Sternguard sadly. :(

Yes we do. They're called Company Veterans.

no, they are cool DA units yes, but sternguard they are not. nor vanguard, they are a slight mix of the two. (no specil rounds, no heroic intervention yada) they are cool, but not -quite- as good as sternguard.

Can those dreads get heavy flamers, x2 like c:sm dreads?

Double flamer dreads dropped on fire warriors or better yet pathfinders can ruin any Tau day. us that to distract as you move up. the land raider should blow up (though if it doesn't it is better) but as long as you get the first 12" move you should be fine.

Ally w/ CSMs and get some blastmasters on the table-STAT

Having both Dark angels and Tau i'd say you are in for a tough ride. Tau have so much ap2, especially that Ion large blast on the riptide. I'm afraid a deathwing army wont fare well. Deathwing just wont be able to get into assault with jetpack infantry and the AP4 of deathwing knights cant even break crisis suit armour. You wanna close the gap between you and tau ASAP so minimise transport and maximise manoeuvrability. Heres a list i think would do well, sorry if you can't run it, maybe proxy :(.

HQ
Sammael - 190
Librarian (Divination Prescience with devastators) - 65
Ravenwing Command Squad (5) + Apoth - 230
HQ Total: 485


Troop:
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 Melta Guns - 100
Troop Total: 430 (915)

Elite
5 Deathwing Terminators + 4 TH/SS + Plasma Cannon - 255
Total: 255 (1170)

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Fast Attack: 180 (1350)

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad + 4 x Lascannons - 150
Heavy Support: 150 (1500)

Scout Move bikes then everything flat out. Ravenwing command squad will go for riptide. get within 9 inches and thats 10 twin linked plasma shots then assault with 20 +1 st rending attacks it will die I promise. Theyre hard to kill too with 3+ cover save on flat out and FNP. Speeders will make short work of pesky fire warriors/pathfinders (squad em up a bit if its kill points). Libby twin link the dev lascannons will instant kill suits, bike troops can whiz around with their plasma cleaning up (focus em on suits first). The only ignore cover he has is the MSSS on the suit which is a small squad so just get that one first with lascannons. Termys on Hammerhead (split fire plasma cannon) and agro (survivable with storm shields) and sammael just being a massive donkey-cave everywhere. I think this has a very good chance to win. Hope it helps. Although you may scatter with DW assault i'd risk it, or just use bikes homing beacons.

If I was your friend, I would clump all my units together for overwatch - and there is no risk since you have zero templates in your list. If your squad with belial assaulted one of his firewarriors then you would have 96 pulserifle shots incoming: 48 would hit, 32 wounds, and you will fail 5 terminator saves. (If the commander and his guards are closeby it will be even worse since they have ap1 and 2 weapons).

Whats the maths for this? overwatch is at BS 1, even markerlights in overwatch can only boost one squads shooting. your having them hit at normal bS. tau overwatch isn't that scary.

I haven't fought Tau, but I tend to run an IG gunline that I keep very immobile, something that my friend (Who runs DA with DW) takes advantage of all the time.

If he is dedicated to a static position, that's how he dies. Drop everything you have on him as soon as you can, get stuck in, where that Tau firepower means absolutely nothing and kill him.

Be prepared to get mauled, but if you want to stick to DW I applaud your decision, and I think you can give him a run for his money. Besides, he's a friend and this is about fun, play the army you want, the way you want. Worry about competitiveness later.

raiden wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Graymalkin wrote:

scommy wrote:
Hmm its gonna be tough. Could he run 5 sterguards in a pod loaded up on combi melta to try melt the hammerhead first turn? Otherwise the land raider will get pulped.

Dark Angels don't get Sternguard sadly. :(

Yes we do. They're called Company Veterans.

no, they are cool DA units yes, but sternguard they are not. nor vanguard, they are a slight mix of the two. (no specil rounds, no heroic intervention yada) they are cool, but not -quite- as good as sternguard.

So a squad of combi-melta/plasma and storm shield armed marines jumping out of a drop pod isn't a nasty unit like sternguard?

I think you need to add some differnt units to your own list. It's going to be like an arms-race. Desin it to specifically kill his stuff. I think you're going to need to drop in close like the others have said, he is counting on ranged shooting. Nothing like melta bombs and such.

calcifer wrote:
Having both Dark angels and Tau i'd say you are in for a tough ride. Tau have so much ap2, especially that Ion large blast on the riptide. I'm afraid a deathwing army wont fare well. Deathwing just wont be able to get into assault with jetpack infantry and the AP4 of deathwing knights cant even break crisis suit armour. You wanna close the gap between you and tau ASAP so minimise transport and maximise manoeuvrability. Heres a list i think would do well, sorry if you can't run it, maybe proxy :(.

HQ
Sammael - 190
Librarian (Divination Prescience with devastators) - 65
Ravenwing Command Squad (5) + Apoth - 230
HQ Total: 485


Troop:
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 Melta Guns - 100
Troop Total: 430 (915)

Elite
5 Deathwing Terminators + 4 TH/SS + Plasma Cannon - 255
Total: 255 (1170)

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Fast Attack: 180 (1350)

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad + 4 x Lascannons - 150
Heavy Support: 150 (1500)

Scout Move bikes then everything flat out. Ravenwing command squad will go for riptide. get within 9 inches and thats 10 twin linked plasma shots then assault with 20 +1 st rending attacks it will die I promise. Theyre hard to kill too with 3+ cover save on flat out and FNP. Speeders will make short work of pesky fire warriors/pathfinders (squad em up a bit if its kill points). Libby twin link the dev lascannons will instant kill suits, bike troops can whiz around with their plasma cleaning up (focus em on suits first). The only ignore cover he has is the MSSS on the suit which is a small squad so just get that one first with lascannons. Termys on Hammerhead (split fire plasma cannon) and agro (survivable with storm shields) and sammael just being a massive donkey-cave everywhere. I think this has a very good chance to win. Hope it helps. Although you may scatter with DW assault i'd risk it, or just use bikes homing beacons.

Bwaaah sorry man didn't see the thing about you liking terminators, i'll try to give more useful help. Try this,

Belial - 190
Librarian - 65
HQ: 255

Troop
DW Terminators + 3 x TH/SS + CML - 260
DW Terminators + 3 x TH/SS + CML - 260
DW Terminators + CML - 245
Troop: 765 (1020)

Elite
5 Ravenwing Black Knights - 210
Elite: 210 (1230)

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Fast Attack: 120 (1350)

Heavy Suppot
Devastators + 4 x lascannons - 150
Heavy Support: 150 (1500)

Same as before, ravenwing knights go riptide, but no FNP now so maximise cover saves. Deepstrike all teminators and flat out land speeders bringing your whole army upon him turn 1! Devs hang back and pop suits/tanks with libby same as before. Hope this helps more and GL! The CML can also instant kill suits and is 2 shots so split fire into them for true pain

You could always field termies inside LRCS with the banner of devastation and find points for a PFG.
Would be funny and he wouldn't expect 2 LRCs with a 4++ and make you reroll your pen chart.

calcifer wrote:
Having both Dark angels and Tau i'd say you are in for a tough ride. Tau have so much ap2, especially that Ion large blast on the riptide. I'm afraid a deathwing army wont fare well. Deathwing just wont be able to get into assault with jetpack infantry and the AP4 of deathwing knights cant even break crisis suit armour. You wanna close the gap between you and tau ASAP so minimise transport and maximise manoeuvrability. Heres a list i think would do well, sorry if you can't run it, maybe proxy :(.

HQ
Sammael - 190
Librarian (Divination Prescience with devastators) - 65
Ravenwing Command Squad (5) + Apoth - 230
HQ Total: 485


Troop:
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 plasma Guns - 110
3 Ravenwing bikes + 2 Melta Guns - 100
Troop Total: 430 (915)

Elite
5 Deathwing Terminators + 4 TH/SS + Plasma Cannon - 255
Total: 255 (1170)

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Fast Attack: 180 (1350)

Heavy Support
Devastator Squad + 4 x Lascannons - 150
Heavy Support: 150 (1500)

Scout Move bikes then everything flat out. Ravenwing command squad will go for riptide. get within 9 inches and thats 10 twin linked plasma shots then assault with 20 +1 st rending attacks it will die I promise. Theyre hard to kill too with 3+ cover save on flat out and FNP. Speeders will make short work of pesky fire warriors/pathfinders (squad em up a bit if its kill points). Libby twin link the dev lascannons will instant kill suits, bike troops can whiz around with their plasma cleaning up (focus em on suits first). The only ignore cover he has is the MSSS on the suit which is a small squad so just get that one first with lascannons. Termys on Hammerhead (split fire plasma cannon) and agro (survivable with storm shields) and sammael just being a massive donkey-cave everywhere. I think this has a very good chance to win. Hope it helps. Although you may scatter with DW assault i'd risk it, or just use bikes homing beacons.

Bwaaah sorry man didn't see the thing about you liking terminators, i'll try to give more useful help. Try this,

Belial - 190
Librarian - 65
HQ: 255

Troop
DW Terminators + 4 x TH/SS + CML - 265
DW Terminators + 4 x TH/SS + CML - 265
Troop: 530 (785)

Elite
5 Ravenwing Black Knights - 210 (same as ravenwing command but 2 extra points each and cant take banner or apothecary)
DW Knights - 235
Elite: 445 (1230)

Fast Attack
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Land Speeder Tornado with 2 x HF - 60
Fast Attack: 120 (1350)

Heavy Suppot
Devastators + 4 x lascannons - 150
Heavy Support: 150 (1500)

Same as before, ravenwing knights go riptide, but no FNP now so maximise cover saves. Deepstrike all teminators and flat out land speeders bringing your whole army upon him turn 1! Devs hang back and pop suits/tanks with libby same as before. Hope this helps more and GL! The CML can also instant kill suits and is 2 shots so split fire into them for true pain. Put Knights with belial for a higher majority toughness and smite mode!!

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

raiden wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:

Graymalkin wrote:

scommy wrote:
Hmm its gonna be tough. Could he run 5 sterguards in a pod loaded up on combi melta to try melt the hammerhead first turn? Otherwise the land raider will get pulped.

Dark Angels don't get Sternguard sadly. :(

Yes we do. They're called Company Veterans.

no, they are cool DA units yes, but sternguard they are not. nor vanguard, they are a slight mix of the two. (no specil rounds, no heroic intervention yada) they are cool, but not -quite- as good as sternguard.

So a squad of combi-melta/plasma and storm shield armed marines jumping out of a drop pod isn't a nasty unit like sternguard?

The fact that both are nasty to have dropped on you does not make veterans into sternguard in the same way a wraithknight is not a rip tide even though both are big robotic MCs.

Also at 38pts a model you better have a very good target for them.

Thanks again everyone.

 Frankenberry wrote:
Besides, he's a friend and this is about fun, play the army you want, the way you want. Worry about competitiveness later.

Well said and it's how I feel too. I don't want to compromise too much on the army I initially wanted as that is a big part of why I was excited to start 40K in the first place; A hard as nails Terminator heavy army with a Land Raider (really like the Deathwing Land Raider) just seems right in my head, regardless of competitiveness. Having said that, I was hoping I could make this at least slightly competitive with the right garnishes (weapons etc). If I move too far away from what I initially wanted I may lose the drive to complete the army altogether.


Calcifer, thanks for the advice and suggestions. Really appreciate it. Not a big fan of bikes for some reason. Do you think Land speeders without the bikes would help or would I be better off with more assault terminators instead? I don't really want to lose the Land Raider; it's just a tough looking model. I would consider dropping the Dread / drop pod and adding 2-3 Land Speeders if you think this would be a good idea. Or maybe a Land Speeder Vengeance? Or drop the dread and 2 terminators and put in another Land Raider?

You could always field termies inside LRCS with the banner of devastation and find points for a PFG.
Would be funny and he wouldn't expect 2 LRCs with a 4++ and make you reroll your pen chart.

Will have a look at the Banner of Devastation. PFG? Two Land Raiders sounds fun. Are you recommending LRCS because of their ability to carry 8 Terminators? Are regular Land Raiders better in terms of firepower generally? I guess I would need to take someone capable of carrying a banner?

Althalus wrote:
Thanks again everyone.

Calcifer, thanks for the advice and suggestions. Really appreciate it. Not a big fan of bikes for some reason. Do you think Land speeders without the bikes would help or would I be better off with more assault terminators instead? I don't really want to lose the Land Raider; it's just a tough looking model. I would consider dropping the Dread / drop pod and adding 2-3 Land Speeders if you think this would be a good idea. Or maybe a Land Speeder Vengeance? Or drop the dread and 2 terminators and put in another Land Raider?

Will have a look at the Banner of Devastation. PFG? Two Land Raiders sounds fun. Are you recommending LRCS because of their ability to carry 8 Terminators? Are regular Land Raiders better in terms of firepower generally? I guess I would need to take someone capable of carrying a banner?

No worries man. Totally understand the apprehension to bikes though, there has to be a natural order to it all. I started out with pure deathwing too, but I eventually realised that they're better than meets the eye. But as I said, it has to come through your own experience. Land Speeders are one of my favourite things ever. Having 2 heavy flamers bypassing fire warrior armor ignoring cover and wounding on 2's, you will wipe a whole squad with just one. But you gotta keep em alive! Just played a game tonight melta bikes popped chimera then HF land speeder just waiting for the guard outside, was glorious! PFG is power field Generator its a 4+ invuln to all models (even enemy) within 3 inches of bearer, good if your stayin far away. And I'd say forget the banner of dev, too much points not worth it for deathwing keep it simple. No vengeance, bad, you have plenty of ap2 from termies, go with Flamers. For the price of one dready with drop pod you could have nearly 3 land speeder tornadoes with 2 heavy flamers each, go that! cause you have no other fast attack you could split em up. I have both but my dready never proved as effective. As far as land raiders go I have never actually used one I always deep strike my terminators turn one so I cannot speak to their effectiveness. sorry for the essay!

Jpat1213 wrote:
You could always field termies inside LRCS with the banner of devastation and find points for a PFG.
Would be funny and he wouldn't expect 2 LRCs with a 4++ and make you reroll your pen chart.

Better to use a power armor command squad, as the Banner of Devastation inexplicably doesn't work on storm bolters...

Ok some advice for running terminators:

1)Try to have fun, because your army won't be in the same competitive tier as your friends tau, and will put you at a severe disadvantage.

2) Take a DW command squad with the FNP banner. It might seem costly at 85 points, but it will most of the time easily earn that back. It is decent vs tau, as thir massed str 5/6/7 fire will allow you to take the save, and will help give your guys some more protection vs plasma rifles.

3) Don't go overboard on TH/SS. They are expensive, and in such a small army you need as many people shooting as you can get. Personally I would run 1 per squad max, however in most cases I don't run any.

4) Consider Belial in a squad with a HF. You will have to be careful of interceptor fire, but if you can land right next to some fire warriors, then you will easily remove the squad with no effort.

5) If you want to use that dread in a pod, then consider the flamers on it as well, so it can land the same time as Belials squad and thereby burn away 2 firewarrior teams in 1 turn.

6) Take CML over assault cannons. Whilst normally this can be debated, the missiles are much better vs battlesuits, once you get those drones out of the way. Their 48 range will help to prevent you from being abused by J-S-J and kiting tactics.

7) DW knights are cool, fluffy and great in friendly games. If you want to be more competitive however, then a normal squad tends to do better.

8) AV14 LRs sure look durable, but they won't last long by themselves, people often take 2 when using them. Alternatively you could use a Techmarine on a bike with a pfg to keep it moving.

9) Lightning claws are pretty poor. Storm bolter and power fist is normally better.

lightning claws are poor? im sorry, I just don't see how costing the same as a power weapon while giving re-roll to wounds is poor, going at int, mind you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lightning claws are poor? im sorry, I just don't see how costing the same as a power weapon while giving re-roll to wounds is poor, going at int, mind you.

 raiden wrote:
lightning claws are poor? im sorry, I just don't see how costing the same as a power weapon while giving re-roll to wounds is poor, going at int, mind you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
lightning claws are poor? im sorry, I just don't see how costing the same as a power weapon while giving re-roll to wounds is poor, going at int, mind you.

Because you are trading those "power weapons" for a power fist, and shooting capability. Both of which are more viable against a wider range of targets. Try holding an objective without a shooting attack or a 3++ save to back you up.
There are a few niche things lightning claws are good against, but most the units in tau are not it. I would rather ID his battle suits and stand a decent chance of taking out a vehicle or a riptide, than get +1 str 4 attack.
Not to mention being able to actually attack as I move up field.

Edit: Also, ap 3 attacks can make LC's a terrible choice vs any other 2+ save units.

you can still have a SS or a shooty attack with a LC if I recall you just don't get the extra attack... LC are good against anything with a 3+ armor, specially those T3 blokes. but on terminators, I would rather take TH/SS 5++ just does not cut it with only one wound.