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I'm not too sure about this. It's probably too early to tell, but I don't see how 14 pt power armor guys get shredded any less than 16 pt power armor guys. Marines are still paying for stats and equipment the Tau/Eldar don't care about. Hopefully, I'm wrong about this.

Stayed the same.

Jimsolo's Dakka Boilerplate #1

For the most part, Games Workshop does a very good job of keeping the armies balanced. Skill with one's chosen army, adaptability, and experience will do more for you than any perceived difference in Codex power.

Some armies are easier to learn how to play than others, however, which leads to faster mastery over the most effective play styles for that codex, and is partially responsible for the misconception that some armies are more powerful. In addition, as a game which constantly grows and changes, 40k frequently sees alterations to an army's play style or to the rules in general, which require adaptation to successfully integrate or combat (as the case may be.) Players who are unable to find the new strategies that they need to use, or unwilling to change their tactics at all, can sometimes come to the erroneous conclusion that their codex is 'underpowered' because it is 'outdated.'

Still don't believe grav guns are ther all cracked up to be. also i don't like bikers as i firmly believe sm are a defense force and that the should be a better gun line

zilka86 wrote:
Still don't believe grav guns are ther all cracked up to be.

You also believed that you had to get rid of all your old models every edition, and you sold off all of your armies multiple times because of that belief. What I am trying to say is that your beliefs and reality don't seem to line up when it comes to wargaming, so maybe you should listen to the people trying to help you rather than take your usual tack when posting and ignoring help or just saying 'you're wrong'. Also, clean up your posts, they are still an absolute trainwreck of spelling mistakes and grammatical errors.

Grav guns are really potent against several problem targets. We'll see how they stand up after nids and orks drop.

I guess my really big probably with sm is you need to be with in 12inch of the enemy to be really good and there's no reliable way to do that with out suicide in ur army with pods


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I can't see how grav guns are that good maybe some can point that out to me. seems like you only use them in list tillering

zilka86 wrote:
If ther was i way to kill mc in go i be happy but you can spend the hole game shooting at them and thers a good chance the will still not die mc are just to tough

Actually most are pretty easy to kill in one turn, even the big Nid ones. 6 wounds, T 6, 3+ armour just asks for krak missiles wounding on 2+, no save, lascannons ditto, melta ditto , plasma on 3+..... if you're having trouble with them maybe invest in more of the above or buy new dice.

DE are the same, but T7, 3 wounds and die far faster. Most MCs are quite killable.

The only ones that are really tough are the ones with T7 + and an inv save, such as a GUO, wraithknight or Riptide, and these are extremely speedy in points, and not that potent for their points in firepower compared to the guns you could have had insteamd.


Riptides are an exception. They take work


#edit for stoopid auto correct errors#

How do wound t6 with krak missiles on 2

zilka86 wrote:
How do wound t6 with krak missiles on 2

Well if you look at the wound chart, you'll find a S8 weapon will wound T6 on a 2.

zilka86 wrote:
Still don't believe grav guns are ther all cracked up to be. also i don't like bikers as i firmly believe sm are a defense force and that the should be a better gun line

Actually they are supposed to be a special forces type surgical strike force that gets up in the enemy's face.

Running them as a gunline and expecting them to do it as well as Tau or IG, which are intended as gunline armies, may be your issue.

You can run them that way, but it's not their intended role.


Edit for auto correct again ... gunline becomes sublime

 Ascalam wrote:
Tau or IG, which are intended as sublime armies

That's an entertaining autocorrect Ascalam
edit: damn ninja'd. And now it's timeline though haha
edit again: there we go. Your phone seems to disapprove of your 40king

True though

How do wound t6 with krak missiles on 2

zilka86 wrote:
How do wound t6 with krak missiles on 2

That was already answered. Read the rulebook, specifically the to wound chart.

zilka86 wrote:
How do wound t6 with krak missiles on 2

Strength 8 versus toughness 6 wounds on a 2+. Check the 'to wound' table. Right there in the rule book.

How have you been resolving attacks on t6 up until now?

Also what's wrong with gunline marines as this. what this ed about so i use 6tac squads and two full dev squads

zilka86 wrote:
Also what's wrong with gunline marines as this. what this ed about so i use 6tac squads and two full dev squads

Marines lack the range and abundance of heavy weapons and artillery to make an effective gunline army in the face of Tau and IG. They are far more effective as a midfield army.

Also, your concerns regarding grav-weapons are unfounded. 3 grav-cannons on Centurions will absolutely murder almost any MC within 24", with the exception being non-Khorne Greater Daemons. They can wipe out a squad of MEQ or TEQ marines per turn. Bikes with grav-guns are almost as effective. So yes, Marines have ways to kill MCs.

 Carnage43 wrote:
The real question is...are Tau bringing marine up by combining in an interesting and unique way, or are marines bringing Tau "down" and you'd be better off with a pure Tau army? I think primary Tau are better personally, so marines would be propped up via the strength of the Tau allies.

IMO, they got better, but the inherent failings of power armor in 6th edition will limit them from seriously challenging the current top tier of Eldar, Tau and Demons/IG/Necrons.

What makes them work is the ability for Tau to fill some roles that marines are lacking.

Broadsides can provide amazing STR 7 support. While cents are good for cracking heavy armor, broadsides are great for throwing lots of wounds on high toughness models.

Tau also can bring buff commanders. Centurians become a lot more dangerous to wave serpents when they are ignoring cover, for example.

The fact that those 2 armies are battle brothers is what makes them work so well.

zilka86 wrote:
Also what's wrong with gunline marines as this. what this ed about so i use 6tac squads and two full dev squads

Why do we keep feeding the troll? Also, how can you guys even understand what he's writing...?

On topic: Space Marines probably aren't at the same level as the top tier books but I guess we'll see in the coming months. If nothing else they're more powerful and cheaper than before (and they were already good before).

I don't think C:SM was good before at all. It was one of the few remaining armies I could beat consistently with the BA.

Codex Space Marine has moved up from where it was, but I don't think it's top tier.

However it does cover all bases now, fliers and anti-air tanks for anti-flier, grav guns for killing monstrous creatures and 2+ armour, tough troops for scoring, although their transports are still fragile.

It can do everything, it can even do them well. What remains to be seen is whether it can do them well enough to be seen as competitive.

I really want Gravturions to work. They are the sleeper OP unit of the codex.

My opinion is White Scars are a very good army now

Scout all your bikes, unleash your gravguns on the big boys whilst your home campers are holding your side.

Only problem is the anti-flyer.

That's what Tau are for.

Boniface wrote:
Only problem is the anti-flyer.

That's what Tau are for.

Honestly? Space Marines get access to flakk missiles, which practically means that even scouts can have some form of AA (even if somewhat unreliable). Then there`s the Stalker and Hunter which can give most flyers (bar perhaps the hellturkey) and even skimmers some pause. On top of that they can bring their own flyer which is also half-decent. Sure, it`s not as effective as having Early Warning Override on a fancy suit, but it`s not like codex marines are still defenseless against air strikes. SW on the other hand...

I still think we got shafted we really needed are owns mc to stand a chance

Boniface wrote:
Only problem is the anti-flyer.

Storm talons.
Storm ravens.
Hunter/Stalkers

zilka86 wrote:
I still think we got shafted we really needed are owns mc to stand a chance

If I had to choose one thing that made me the happiest about the new Space Marines it's that they didn't continue the bull**** of giving them some sort of ridiculously tough, fast, cheap mecha creature.

But that what we needed to be a competitive top tier army with out are own mc we are just a sub par army

 PrinceRaven wrote:

zilka86 wrote:
I still think we got shafted we really needed are owns mc to stand a chance

If I had to choose one thing that made me the happiest about the new Space Marines it's that they didn't continue the bull**** of giving them some sort of ridiculously tough, fast, cheap mecha creature.

Instead, we've got Space Marines inside Space Marines! Yaaaaaaay! But seriously, I would rather choose some random mecha over those Shiturions.

zilka86 wrote:
But that what we needed to be a competitive top tier army with out are own mc we are just a sub par army

Hardly.

Most MCs are ridiculously easy to chumpslap, as discussed upthread.

DE have MC's. They aren't top tier because they have them

Nids are all about MC's. A good player can do well enough with them, but they aren't a passport to victory,

Tau have Riptides, and yes, as discussed before, they are stoopidly tough to kill. That isn't what is making Tau beastly, though it does contribute.

Daemons have MCs, but most are rather meh or grotesquely pricy for what they do

Eldar have MC's. They are tough and shooty. This is an Eldar thing. The Wraithlord was considered beardy when it first dropped too. Until everyone dropped them the same way all MCs get dropped, with plasma, lascannons, melta etc,

Almost every MC in the game is one FW wound from being a very expensive corpse.

Grey Knights got an MC, which i personally think was fething stupid, but aside from that there isn't really any Marine tendency towards MCs in the army (Mephiston excluded ) and they reallly don't need them. They have a dozen varieties of Dreadnought for the same purposes, and the best selection of anti-mc weapons in any book afaik.

Every time someone proposes a SM MC that i've seen the fluff is rabid fanspank and the rules tend to make primarchs look pale, so no thanks.

If you want MCs in your SM play Grey Knights, or ally in someone who has them.