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I really like WHFB, but every time I think about starting a new army the realization that the first thing I'll need to do is build 50+ infantry models, most of which will be from the same kit, really kills my enthusiasm.

I feel like the Fantasy ruleset scales down poorly, so there's not much reason to play a list less then 1.5k points. And the first thing you pretty much need done are your big blocks of core infantry, and your more comparatively fun stuff comes later. Even in a very small points game a small unit of infantry isn't going to do much.

It's not like I have a problem with the idea of assembling and painting a huge number of models, it's the feeling that I need to do it all in one go, before I have a really playable army, that bothers me. I built my 40k orks up largely over time, and did my Empire mostly a a few marathon sessions of overnight "Iron Painter" events. Maybe I'm just disappointed that starting a new army, instead of feeling cool and exciting, involves a lot of drudgework.

I know there are armies that don't really need this many (Ogres, maybe Brets and Chaos).

(Mostly leaving aside issues of price, because there's ten bajillion threads on that already.)

Does anyone have a good way of dealing with this? Has anyone found fantasy to play well in a slow-gro format?

Yes, I actualy always start small when I get around to build myself a new army. Fantasy playes well at 1k and such lvls of points. As for getting the feel of an arm, pick up a box of the core troops and a lord. Paint them up and read the fluff, then decide where to go from there on.

Extensive use of unit fillers could both liven up the assembly and painting woes while also helping out with the cardiac shock your wallet is sure to take.

well you can have someone commisioned to paint your army for you

I have found in smaller games it is hard to keep ' balanced' i.e a lvl 4 mage on one side will do very nasty things if the other side doesn't have it. However i guess the same it true of a gorebeast chariot or anything else tough if the other 1k force doesn't have the right counter.
Having said that it doesn't make it impossible to play.

Low points values do tend to favor magic shenanigans, so watch out for that. You can agree on house rules to lower the impact of magic a bit (cut dice in half, something similar). Fantasy really does play out a lot better at higher points values. As long as you and your opponent don't try to cheese fest it can be plenty of fun, though! Try to limit your magic spam and any super-buff monsters and you should be fine.

That being said, some armies definitely have significantly less models than others. I run WoC and have probably half the model count of my opponents.

Fantasy doesn't really play all that well at lower points values. 1200 is the "standard" low value, and it can be made to work fairly well with a few house rulings. The main one is banning Lord choices. Another is allowing your General to acts as a BSB as well. There are a few other popular ones, but those two are the ones I feel work best and, to be honest, you only really need the first one.

That said, Fantasy is far more enjoyable and far more balanced when you get past 2000 points, so try and up your points value as quickly as you can. Like others have said, there's numerous tips and tricks you can use, such as using movement fillers which save time and money and are a nice deviation from the norm. eBay is a great place to buy already assembled models and you could always start up an elite army like Ogres.

Pick up a copy of sixth edition on the bay and use the skirmish rules in the back of the book. Really great alternative to large army battles when you have only a short time to play.

That should slake your thirst for getting games in while controlling your backlog of minis to be painted while you play.

Gives you the ability to slow grow your army to 3000 point levels.

A good way to nerf magic in smaller games is to only roll a D3 when selecting spells (i.e. can't take purple sun if you can't roll a 6). This only works if you have a small no. of low level casters though.

Interestingly, this is something that my local GW is planning on doing with a system called "Regiments of Renown" which is a Fantasy version of Kill Teams.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Interestingly, this is something that my local GW is planning on doing with a system called "Regiments of Renown" which is a Fantasy version of Kill Teams.

That looks like fun. Thanks for linking it. Will give me something to play while I build up my new force.

1000 points is about the lowest the rules work without significant problems.

And really, 1k isn't going to be that many models. Especially if you buy a Battalion and/or shop online.

Battalions get you a good starting point. A couple characters or a larger model can also suck up the points quickly. Then you can grow from there.


Get a battalion, a couple other boxes, and some characters. Characters can eat up points quickly. at 1000 points, you can spend up to 250 points in Lords and 250 points in Heros. You can easily do that with most armies. There you've just got almost half your points in only a couple models. So you only really have to spends a little over half your points on regular RnF.

Thanks for the advice, all!

Rank fillers are a good idea, and I definitely have enough bitz laying around...and I'm sure I'll get them pretty quickly if I start Dark Elves.

I'm just a little wary because I remember heavily investing in Dwarves as my first WHFB army only to decide that they were kind of dull to play. (Although, now that actually know the game, I can hopefully make a more educated decision about what I want to play...)

Yes. 500 pts at a time is good. Lord & 2 troops. Then add from there.

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
Yes. 500 pts at a time is good. Lord & 2 troops. Then add from there.

That is not a legal army. you must have at least 3 units and characters don't count.

Low points is very possible in fantasy, the old Border Patrol rules (with a few tweaks) still work very well in 8th edition. Yes some armies will struggle (WoC are a good example) but for the most part you should be able to produce a decent list.

 Flashman wrote:
A good way to nerf magic in smaller games is to only roll a D3 when selecting spells (i.e. can't take purple sun if you can't roll a 6). This only works if you have a small no. of low level casters though.

Unless playing in a tournament, simply agree with your opponent that max magic caster level is 2 for 1K and below. Major problem solved.

Our escalation league started at 500 points with relatively no rough patches.

My girfriend and game club actually love 1K matches; they are fast and fun.

 bu11etmagn3tt wrote:
Yes. 500 pts at a time is good. Lord & 2 troops. Then add from there.

That's 40k.

You need 3 non character units and 1 character to be the general. Percentages still apply.

bu11etmagn3tt wrote:Yes. 500 pts at a time is good. Lord & 2 troops. Then add from there.

Looking at the latest poster on a lot of threads, it looks like someone wants to get their post count up fast.

Nick Ellingworth wrote:Low points is very possible in fantasy, the old Border Patrol rules (with a few tweaks) still work very well in 8th edition. Yes some armies will struggle (WoC are a good example) but for the most part you should be able to produce a decent list.

This isn't really Fantasy though, is it? Border patrol is very different to normal fantasy, in the same way that Regiments of Renown is.

Definitely would recommend 1k battles with house rules with your friends. Like lvl 2 wizards only and such and whatever tweaks you and your opponent feels is fair. The old border patrol rules work nicely to as mentioned. So yeah. buy small. Experiment and see what you want to do from there is a completely workable option.

Where are the rules for using rank fillers , I tried to find them in my small rulebook , but couldn't find them .

There are no rules on fillers.

Makumba wrote:
Where are the rules for using rank fillers , I tried to find them in my small rulebook , but couldn't find them .

Fillers are just a conversion convention. There are no official rules on them.

So how do people use them , were they added in WD or FW ?

Its just a gaming aid/visual bonus/money saver.

The thread underneath this has some good info on fillers.

Ah so they are illegal , Was so happy I wouldn't have to buy all those warriors and crossbowers. :(

"Illegal" in the sense that they're not officially in the rules, but I've never met anyone that's been actually bothered by a tastefully done filler.

You can easy play at 500 or 1000 point just remember setting some house rules in place like no lord choices (or atleast no lvl 3 and 4 wizards). Also see if you cna find a copy of warhammer skirmish, it's made for 6th edition but I think you could use it decently with 8th too.

Makumba wrote:
Ah so they are illegal , Was so happy I wouldn't have to buy all those warriors and crossbowers. :(

there is no legality or illegality about them.

Given that GW has showcased armies which included fillers they have at least tacit approval. And GW doesn't matter anyway.

No tournament i have ever seen has disallowed them. they are basically a feature in the competitive scene.