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Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

He should totally bring it up for a vote then! Hooray! Get this slowdown/shutdown/whateverFoxiscallingit fixed up and get them back to work!

Wait...
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
18 GOP house members ready to pass a clean CR, more than enough for it to pass if Bohner would bring it up for a vote.

We'll see after the "summit meeting" at the WH this evening.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
18 GOP house members ready to pass a clean CR, more than enough for it to pass if Bohner would bring it up for a vote.

Actually, just enough members if all of the democrats vote for a clean CR.

DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

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Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Leerstetten, Germany

If he brings it up he is toast. He's a hostage to the fringe of his party.
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

I for one welcome our new Speaker Cantor.

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Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Overland Park, KS

 Alfndrate wrote:
 daedalus-templarius wrote:
18 GOP house members ready to pass a clean CR, more than enough for it to pass if Bohner would bring it up for a vote.

Actually, just enough members if all of the democrats vote for a clean CR.


Yes, it requires 17 GOP votes and all Dem votes. Although I do believe the dems would vote for a clean CR.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
I for one welcome our new Speaker Cantor.

Eh... he's in the same mold... isn't he?

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Old Sourpuss






Lakewood, Ohio

 daedalus-templarius wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
 daedalus-templarius wrote:
18 GOP house members ready to pass a clean CR, more than enough for it to pass if Bohner would bring it up for a vote.

Actually, just enough members if all of the democrats vote for a clean CR.


Yes, it requires 17 GOP votes and all Dem votes. Although I do believe the dems would vote for a clean CR.

A 217 count in the House would give exactly a 49%. The current "simple majority" in the house is 218 because 50% of the house would be 217.5 votes, and since you cannot split a vote in half (yet ) 17 votes for a clean CR would fail, but 18 would pass.

DR:80+S++G+M+B+I+Pwmhd11#++D++A++++/sWD-R++++T(S)DM+

Ask me about Brushfire or Endless: Fantasy Tactics 
   
Made in us
Devestating Grey Knight Dreadknight





Overland Park, KS

 Alfndrate wrote:
 daedalus-templarius wrote:
 Alfndrate wrote:
 daedalus-templarius wrote:
18 GOP house members ready to pass a clean CR, more than enough for it to pass if Bohner would bring it up for a vote.

Actually, just enough members if all of the democrats vote for a clean CR.


Yes, it requires 17 GOP votes and all Dem votes. Although I do believe the dems would vote for a clean CR.

A 217 count in the House would give exactly a 49%. The current "simple majority" in the house is 218 because 50% of the house would be 217.5 votes, and since you cannot split a vote in half (yet ) 17 votes for a clean CR would fail, but 18 would pass.


I believe they hit 18 a short time ago.

Not like Bohner would bring it up for a vote.

   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 whembly wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
I for one welcome our new Speaker Cantor.

Eh... he's in the same mold... isn't he?


From what I've heard, he might actually be worse (this can go several ways, depending on ones perspective).

At a glance he seems to have been acting as Starscream to Boehner's Megatron for a while.
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

I live in his district. He's a big fan of the Tea Party.

Here's what the RTD (a conservative paper) has to say about him today:
This is at least the third time in his two years as majority leader that Cantor has been at the center of a federal fiscal calamity. These are not episodes from which a politician — certainly not a national figure — emerges stronger, better respected or taken more seriously.

We are witnessing the trivialization of Eric Cantor.

This is what happens when parochialism, magnified by partisan redistricting, prevents a politician from doing anything that might anger the narrow slice of the electorate or — in Cantor’s case, the minority within a partisan caucus — on which viability depends.

[...]

For a politician at the peak of his power — and presumably interested in amassing more by becoming speaker — Cantor has been rendered powerless by his ambition. To remain the Republican second-in-command and a viable alternative to Boehner, Cantor’s first priority is to accommodate the deciding votes within his party’s caucus: younger, confrontational, anti-hierarchical conservatives.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/state-regional/government-politics/jeff-schapiro/schapiro-the-trivialization-of-eric-cantor/article_b57adf35-eb0c-5fee-91be-6a067aeb42e2.html

Schaprio argues that Cantor would make a great moderate Republican but faces a climb to power on a Tea Party ticket that actually leads nowhere. It's a microcosmic portrait of the ongoing GOP decline.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/02 20:49:28


   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 Forar wrote:
At a glance he seems to have been acting as Starscream to Boehner's Megatron for a while.


But just think - if Cantor does get elected speaker, we can look forward to the newly revitalized Boehnertron swooping it at Cantor's coronation, declaring it to be bad comedy, melting him to ashes, and then stomping his crown.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






But just think - if Cantor does get elected speaker, we can look forward to the newly revitalized Boehnertron swooping it at Cantor's coronation, declaring it to be bad comedy, melting him to ashes, and then stomping his crown.


Rewatching Supernatural or something?

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

You've got the touch, Jihadin.

   
Made in us
Hangin' with Gork & Mork






He has the power.

Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 whembly wrote:

Has nothing to do with the IRS to regulate taxes...


Not true. He's not just suing the Pres for failure to enforce, he's suing the IRS who created the regulation that changed how the tax would be collected. See, the president didn't use 'executive power' he used the Sec of the Treasury to create a regulation to that effect. Which is legal, it's just a back door way of doing it. All sorts of bodies over the years have been empowered by Congress to issue regulations that have weight of law, but are not laws issued by Congress. The IRS can regulate the collection of Taxes. So they did.


 whembly wrote:

Has everything to do with the PPACA being the law of the land that needs to be faithfully executed.


You stop your car every mile and fire a rocket when driving at night? That's the law of the land too. Still on the books. I have not in my life seen it enforced.









Autobots... ROCK OUT!


This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 22:14:21



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 BaronIveagh wrote:
See, the president didn't use 'executive power' he used the Sec of the Treasury to create a regulation to that effect. Which is legal, it's just a back door way of doing it.
The Baron is correct here -- just want to point out that "back door" cannot mean "irregular" in this case. Regulation always arises from legislation and regulation is a matter of the executive branch.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Has nothing to do with the IRS to regulate taxes...


Not true. He's not just suing the Pres for failure to enforce, he's suing the IRS who created the regulation that changed how the tax would be collected. See, the president didn't use 'executive power' he used the Sec of the Treasury to create a regulation to that effect. Which is legal, it's just a back door way of doing it. All sorts of bodies over the years have been empowered by Congress to issue regulations that have weight of law, but are not laws issued by Congress. The IRS can regulate the collection of Taxes. So they did.

You have a point there... he wouldn't even have standing on that. On this line of thought, a judge could throw out the whole case.

 whembly wrote:

Has everything to do with the PPACA being the law of the land that needs to be faithfully executed.


You stop your car every mile and fire a rocket when driving at night? That's the law of the land too. Still on the books. I have not in my life seen it enforced.









Autobots... ROCK OUT!



I...
o.O

Need to pull out my firework stash...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 23:12:54


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 whembly wrote:
You have a point there... he wouldn't even have standing on that. On this along, a judge could throw out the whole case.
Precisely. But the case is not about striking at the ACA directly anyway. It's about cranking up the volume, mobilizing the troops, stirring the pot, making a scene, etc, etc. It's like when the Birthers went to court. Or any time Sarah Palin speaks.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/02 22:27:26


   
Made in ca
Depraved Slaanesh Chaos Lord





Jihadin wrote:
But just think - if Cantor does get elected speaker, we can look forward to the newly revitalized Boehnertron swooping it at Cantor's coronation, declaring it to be bad comedy, melting him to ashes, and then stomping his crown.


Rewatching Supernatural or something?

Hang your head in shame, Jihadin
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Az.....your making fun of my age eh? You just had to go there......

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
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Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

Mitch McConnell is Astrotrain in this scenario, right?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Nihilistic Necron Lord




The best State-Texas

 Ouze wrote:
 Forar wrote:
At a glance he seems to have been acting as Starscream to Boehner's Megatron for a while.


But just think - if Cantor does get elected speaker, we can look forward to the newly revitalized Boehnertron swooping it at Cantor's coronation, declaring it to be bad comedy, melting him to ashes, and then stomping his crown.



This is so beautiful...


Honestly, I think Cantor as speaker would be significantly worse than Boehner.

4000+
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Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
So the individual mandate, which is part of the same piece of legislation, is somehow different and is illegal to defer - but the business mandate, which is also part of the ACA, can legally be deferred?


Legally? This is congress passing laws revising laws they've already put in place. Talking about changes they might make in terms of legality makes no fething sense.

I'm talking about what makes the laws work, and what doesn't. The business requirement can be delayed without upsetting the rest of the ACA. It could be abandoned entirely and the rest of the ACA wouldn't be impacted.

But the individual mandate is an essential part of ACA. Without a requirement for young, healthy people to get insurance, then they'll just wait until they get sick. Then premiums go up on those in the system, which encourages more people to drop out, forcing up premiums on the ones that and that's pretty much the situation with the New York insurance market right now.

The Republicans know this, of course, which is why they've targeted the mandate in their list of demands.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
Eh... he's in the same mold... isn't he?


More or less. They're both basically hard liners, but not insane.

Cantor has been more willing to play to the crazies, though. But whether that's because he has had more freedom to play to the crazies because he hasn't actually had to lead and make deals as Boehner has, or whether its because he's figured the only way to usurp Boehner is with the rising tide of crazies, or because Cantor is a just lot more mercenary in where he seeks support we will find out if he ever does gain power. Hopefully, and I suspect most likely, it's just been the former.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/03 02:50:02


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 sebster wrote:
 Dreadclaw69 wrote:
So the individual mandate, which is part of the same piece of legislation, is somehow different and is illegal to defer - but the business mandate, which is also part of the ACA, can legally be deferred?


Legally? This is congress passing laws revising laws they've already put in place. Talking about changes they might make in terms of legality makes no fething sense.

I'm talking about what makes the laws work, and what doesn't. The business requirement can be delayed without upsetting the rest of the ACA. It could be abandoned entirely and the rest of the ACA wouldn't be impacted.

But the individual mandate is an essential part of ACA. Without a requirement for young, healthy people to get insurance, then they'll just wait until they get sick. Then premiums go up on those in the system, which encourages more people to drop out, forcing up premiums on the ones that and that's pretty much the situation with the New York insurance market right now.

The Republicans know this, of course, which is why they've targeted the mandate in their list of demands.

Great! So... since the administration can arbitriarily change the ACA law... they can also arbitrarily raise the Debt Ceiling. Right? Because, just like you said, it's what "makes the law works, and what won't". Amirite?

Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
Eh... he's in the same mold... isn't he?


More or less. They're both basically hard liners, but not insane.

Cantor has been more willing to play to the crazies, though. But whether that's because he had the freedom as Boehner still had to actually, you know, lead and be responsible, or whether it's because Cantor is a little more mercenary is something we'll find out if he ever does usurp power.

I recant my previous statement. Cantor is even worse that Boehner.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in au
The Dread Evil Lord Varlak





 Sasori wrote:
This is so beautiful...


So beautiful.

Biden as Ultra Magnus (he's notionally got a position of authority, but he never does anything).

Pelosi as Arcee the token girl.

Who's Unicron?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
You have a point there... he wouldn't even have standing on that. On this line of thought, a judge could throw out the whole case.


Yeah, to have standing you'd have to be an individual who under the new law should be given healthcare.

There would be quite a few people out there in that situation, but I guess they've probably got bigger priorities than engaging in political grandstanding.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 whembly wrote:
Great! So... since the administration can arbitriarily change the ACA law... they can also arbitrarily raise the Debt Ceiling. Right? Because, just like you said, it's what "makes the law works, and what won't". Amirite?


Come on, you know that's not what I'm saying.

The question asked was why, if the president can delay the business mandate, why can't congress revise a law to delay the individual mandate. And the answer is that the business mandate pretty much stands alone, you can delay it or cut it and the rest of the ACA will continue to work just fine. But the individual mandate... well cut that and the whole system stops working.

As to whether the delay on the business mandate was illegal, that's a whole other matter. I have no clue, personally, on the legality, but it does strike me as poor practice from Obama to just ignore a deadline written in to law. But whether it is illegal or not, good practice or not, delaying the mandate is a thing that can be done without impacting the rest of the ACA. The same can not be said for the individual mandate.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/03 03:14:33


“We may observe that the government in a civilized country is much more expensive than in a barbarous one; and when we say that one government is more expensive than another, it is the same as if we said that that one country is farther advanced in improvement than another. To say that the government is expensive and the people not oppressed is to say that the people are rich.”

Adam Smith, who must have been some kind of leftie or something. 
   
Made in us
Lord of the Fleet





Seneca Nation of Indians

 whembly wrote:

Great! So... since the administration can arbitriarily change the ACA law... they can also arbitrarily raise the Debt Ceiling. Right?


Well, actually, according to the Supreme Court.. yes, he can, if Congress becomes deadlocked or otherwise will not act.


POTUSmus Prime?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/03 03:24:39



Fate is in heaven, armor is on the chest, accomplishment is in the feet. - Nagao Kagetora
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 BaronIveagh wrote:
 whembly wrote:

Great! So... since the administration can arbitriarily change the ACA law... they can also arbitrarily raise the Debt Ceiling. Right?


Well, actually, according to the Supreme Court.. yes, he can, if Congress becomes deadlocked or otherwise will not act.

I'm honestly curious... which case was that?


POTUSmus Prime?


Nice!

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant





Believeland, OH

Who's Unicron?
The National Debt, it will eat us all if its not dealt with, but the Decepticons and Autobots are to busy fighting amongst each other to deal with it. This would however make Boehner Galvatron.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/03 03:56:00


"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
Decrepit Dakkanaut






Someone remind me again why I spent 23 years, last year was involuntary, in uniform. Please tell me not for Congress to have a brain fart and goat rope session....please....pretty please...

Side note. Dangit Az you have wanting me to look for the Battletech cartoons now....since I already own all of Robotech.

Proud Member of the Infidels of OIF/OEF
No longer defending the US Military or US Gov't. Just going to ""**feed into your fears**"" with Duffel Blog
Did not fight my way up on top the food chain to become a Vegan...
Warning: Stupid Allergy
Once you pull the pin, Mr. Grenade is no longer your friend
DE 6700
Harlequin 2500
RIP Muhammad Ali.

Jihadin, Scorched Earth 791. Leader of the Pork Eating Crusader. Alpha


 
   
 
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