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 Ouze wrote:

 Jihadin wrote:
Unbelievable. I hate it when Veterans are used to paint which side with a black eye.

What's this in reference to?

I'm guessing it could be a mix of the whole "Veterans storm the Memorial because evil park police" and the "pass a piece-meal budget that covers the VA...because veterans".

Is that funding because the GOP is just bleeding in their hearts for these guys, or is this just the Republican version of "Obama talks about guns surrounded by kids".


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 Jihadin wrote:
Funding for VA. VA announce they had enough fund to run operations for three weeks at current rate a couple days before Obama said that Veterans are taking a hit due to lack of funding from Congress. VA is now tap dancing. Either someone can't do math in VA financial office, Shinseki boloed out his arse like the black beret, or someone playing games

edit

Some odd reason I like it when single budget bill per Department goes through. Cuts down on the pork barrel projects mayhem.

VA is hard because there are so many different areas of it, and I think parts get funded by different bills.

I think the actual hospital side where I work is pretty safe, except that the people handling new claims and new patients are hit (maybe they should use that time to catch up on the year long backlog...wishful thinking I know). Veterans Health Administration seems in better shape than the offices handling GI Bills and VA Loans I think.

It's a cluster feth. At least nobody has thought about kicking patients out of the hospital in front of TV cameras though.

Its the processing the Disability claims by vets. They have mandatory overtime to complete as many as they can to cut down on the backlog. Medical side of the house is safe. Its the Admin side that's getting effected I believe.

 whembly wrote:

Nah... just haven't seen/read previous shutdowns where one side actually said "we're not going to negotiate with you" in this fashion.

But the article you cited as evidence didn't make that claim, and you repeatedly refused to answer a direct question which would have forced you to admit as much. You could very easily have said "No, it didn't. But it illustrates the larger point that I cannot find evidence that this has happened before."

 whembly wrote:

Why must it always be a CR?

Couldn't the House pass, ya know, budget bills in a normal fashion? You know, the way they used to do it before Reid became Senate Leader.

What does the Senate Majority Leader have to do with the bills considered by the House?

But yeah, the House could pass appropriations bills which offered concessions to the relevant party in the Senate, and the relevant party in the Senate could pass, or amend, those bills. The problem in this instance is that the GOP has demonized Obamacare so effectively that many of its House members cannot do anything save aggressively attack it; as it is the foundation of their electoral viability. As such that issue is conflated with other issues, issues like funding the government.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I have a solution guys! We execute every member of the U.S. Congress then call for elections. Each new member of congress will have to swear the oath of office on the gallows their predecessor died on.



I can't see how that WON'T ensure positive growths in duty to the people and standards of behavior in our elected representatives in the future.

OK there's something I can get behind, if its extended to the executive.

 KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I have a solution guys! We execute every member of the U.S. Congress then call for elections. Each new member of congress will have to swear the oath of office on the gallows their predecessor died on.

You know, that second sentence has... almost a poetry about it.

 sebster wrote:
They don't want to have to negotiate just to keep basic government running. Who the feth would?

I mean, consider if a year from now the Democrats decide they want to do the same. They say they're going to block any continuing funding resolution unless Republicans agree to give free puppies to all illegal immigrants. Are you going to sit there insisting that Republicans need to negotiate, that in order to just keep basic government running they have to concede things to the Democrats? No, it's ridiculous. Absolutely fething ridiculous.

Yet it's how the system's set up. If CRs were automatically supposed to pass, there would be a mechanism for that. Instead, there's the option of voting no.

 Seaward wrote:

 sebster wrote:
They don't want to have to negotiate just to keep basic government running. Who the feth would?

I mean, consider if a year from now the Democrats decide they want to do the same. They say they're going to block any continuing funding resolution unless Republicans agree to give free puppies to all illegal immigrants. Are you going to sit there insisting that Republicans need to negotiate, that in order to just keep basic government running they have to concede things to the Democrats? No, it's ridiculous. Absolutely fething ridiculous.

Yet it's how the system's set up. If CRs were automatically supposed to pass, there would be a mechanism for that. Instead, there's the option of voting no.

Except that right now there actually is no vote at all...

PhantomViper wrote:
Except that right now there actually is no vote at all...

True indeed! But there was a vote for Speaker.

 dogma wrote:

 whembly wrote:

Why must it always be a CR?

Couldn't the House pass, ya know, budget bills in a normal fashion? You know, the way they used to do it before Reid became Senate Leader.

What does the Senate Majority Leader have to do with the bills considered by the House?

But yeah, the House could pass appropriations bills which offered concessions to the relevant party in the Senate, and the relevant party in the Senate could pass, or amend, those bills. The problem in this instance is that the GOP has demonized Obamacare so effectively that many of its House members cannot do anything save aggressively attack it; as it is the foundation of their electoral viability. As such that issue is conflated with other issues, issues like funding the government.

That's actually a great point.

If the House GOP can ever get their act together and coordinate better, I'd be in favor of them passing a clean CR (yes, even ACA) AND raise the debt ceiling... IF... the GOP says, this is it. No more CR. State that the House will ONLY pass funding for individual department via the normal appropriation method.

But, unfortunately... that'll never happen.

 Seaward wrote:
Yet it's how the system's set up. If CRs were automatically supposed to pass, there would be a mechanism for that. Instead, there's the option of voting no.

Yes, it is how the system is set up, and when used for it's original purpose it's a good mechanism to review and control expenditure. But in this case a mechanism for controlling government spending is clearly being used by one side to extort concessions from the other side on entirely unrelated legislation.

And you may well say that they can use it for such a purpose and you'd be right, but it's pretty obvious that they shouldn't be doing so. It means any party that holds one house of congress can decide to stop government unless the other side concedes on some issue - any issue. It turns government in to a game of chicken, where legislation isn't decided by voting power or negotiation, but just on who blinks first on each government shutdown.

Well when one house of congress has refused to pass a budget for five years, this is what we are left with.

According to David Weigel, some of these House Whips counts taht are going on aren't as accurate as you would think...

http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2013/10/08/here_s_why_republicans_who_say_they_support_a_clean_cr_actually_don_t.html

Pennsylvania Rep. Lou Barletta, who is also often placed on the whip lists, had the same stance as Nunes. "I'm not in favor of a clean CR," he told me. "I'm past that. There haven't been several whip counts -- it was at 1 a.m. after we'd taken three shots at keeping the government open. At the time, I was in favor of a clean CR for a week or two weeks so we could keep negotiating. Since then I've found a group of Democrats who are willing to repeal the Medical Device Tax, which I think would be a great compromise, since it seems very obvious that the Senate and the president are not going to deal away Obamacare. If we can dismantle Obamacare piece by piece, I think that's another step forward."

For all the Jon Steward haters, this was a good interview yesterday:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/08/jon-stewart-accuses-kathleen-sebelius-of-lying-to-him-about-obamacare/

We probably take away different things from it (is business getting a year stupid or is it stupid that people don't), but I think both sides can agree that she did not look good or even honest.

Edit: Just realized I didn't actually post the link...

There's a lot of truth in that.

 d-usa wrote:
For all the Jon Steward haters, this was a good interview yesterday:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/08/jon-stewart-accuses-kathleen-sebelius-of-lying-to-him-about-obamacare/

We probably take away different things from it (is business getting a year stupid or is it stupid that people don't), but I think both sides can agree that she did not look good or even honest.

Edit: Just realized I didn't actually post the link...

If you're going into an interview about a system with such a glaring flaw, you'd think you'd at least have a competent lie to cover it. She didn't. I was kind of surprised.

Side note, just found out over the weekend that many government employees, while 'back to work,' aren't actually being paid.

 Jimsolo wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
For all the Jon Steward haters, this was a good interview yesterday:

http://dailycaller.com/2013/10/08/jon-stewart-accuses-kathleen-sebelius-of-lying-to-him-about-obamacare/

We probably take away different things from it (is business getting a year stupid or is it stupid that people don't), but I think both sides can agree that she did not look good or even honest.

Edit: Just realized I didn't actually post the link...

If you're going into an interview about a system with such a glaring flaw, you'd think you'd at least have a competent lie to cover it. She didn't. I was kind of surprised.

Side note, just found out over the weekend that many government employees, while 'back to work,' aren't actually being paid.

That was passed yesterday...

Federal Worker Pay Fairness Act (H.J. Res. 89): ensures that federal employees who are still on the job during Democrats' shutdown are paid on time. (Passed in the House 420-0)

Reid/Senate has yet to take it up...

Reid's a total douche. I'm not a Republican or a Democrat but I will say that Democrats like Reid have never respected the men and women that served in the armed forces. (The Republicans just like to send them off to die for useless wars.) I'm a vet and Reid makes me want to punch him. Even worse, he's the same religion as me. (Facepalm.)

 whembly wrote:

That was passed yesterday...

Federal Worker Pay Fairness Act (H.J. Res. 89): ensures that federal employees who are still on the job during Democrats' shutdown are paid on time. (Passed in the House 420-0)

Reid/Senate has yet to take it up...

Because some Republican already said he is going to add stuff and filibuster it.

And "Democrats' shutdown"? Giving away your biased sources there...

 d-usa wrote:

 whembly wrote:

That was passed yesterday...

Federal Worker Pay Fairness Act (H.J. Res. 89): ensures that federal employees who are still on the job during Democrats' shutdown are paid on time. (Passed in the House 420-0)

Reid/Senate has yet to take it up...

Because some Republican already said he is going to add stuff and filibuster it.

Really? Where/When? o.O What is Reid going to add to it?

And "Democrats' shutdown"? Giving away your biased sources there...

Hey... gotta fight this meme that it's all the House's fault, all-the-time.

When you got a letter signed by a bunch of house republican saying that they will do this, an admission by the speaker that they had an agreement for a clean CR months ago between him and Reid that he decided to ignore to push for this, and enough votes for a clean CR that the speaker will not allow to be voted on...

Then you have to have some pretty partisan blinders on to think it's not their fault.


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And Reid was adding nothing, the Rep said he would filibuster it until he could add stuff to it.

 d-usa wrote:
When you got a letter signed by a bunch of house republican saying that they will do this, an admission by the speaker that they had an agreement for a clean CR months ago between him and Reid that he decided to ignore to push for this, and enough votes for a clean CR that the speaker will not allow to be voted on...

Then you have to have some pretty partisan blinders on to think it's not their fault.

I don't think it's not their fault... there's enough pox to hand out on both sides. It's YOU who thinks it all lies with the House.

I just think what Reid/Obama is doing is more ridiculous...

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And Reid was adding nothing, the Rep said he would filibuster it until he could add stuff to it.

O.o who?

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
When you got a letter signed by a bunch of house republican saying that they will do this, an admission by the speaker that they had an agreement for a clean CR months ago between him and Reid that he decided to ignore to push for this, and enough votes for a clean CR that the speaker will not allow to be voted on...

Then you have to have some pretty partisan blinders on to think it's not their fault.

I don't think it's not their fault... there's enough pox to hand out on both sides. It's YOU who thinks it all lies with the House.

Because it does.

 whembly wrote:
It's YOU who thinks it all lies with the House.

I just think what Reid/Obama is doing is more ridiculous...

Which of these things is more ridiculous:

1) Get a law passed that is unpopular with one party. Sign it into law. Be told by the party that voted against it that they would like businesses to have an extra year to implement. Throw them a bone and agree to it.


2) Fail to muster enough votes to repeal a law unpopular with your constituents but popular with the majority of the US. Refuse to do anything, until the law is repealed and take the country hostage in the process. Blame the other guy for not giving in to your demands, and whine about the ones they did. Ignore the fact that the entire plan was your party's to begin with under a previous administration, and baldly similar to the one implemented by your former candidate for President, who already proved it could work.

 BaronIveagh wrote:

 whembly wrote:
It's YOU who thinks it all lies with the House.

I just think what Reid/Obama is doing is more ridiculous...

Which of these things is more ridiculous:

1) Get a law passed that is unpopular with one party. Sign it into law. Be told by the party that voted against it that they would like businesses to have an extra year to implement. Throw them a bone and agree to it.


2) Fail to muster enough votes to repeal a law unpopular with your constituents but popular with the majority of the US. Refuse to do anything, until the law is repealed and take the country hostage in the process. Blame the other guy for not giving in to your demands, and whine about the ones they did. Ignore the fact that the entire plan was your party's to begin with under a previous administration, and baldly similar to the one implemented by your former candidate for President.

I choose option C) Believing politicians will actually work.

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
When you got a letter signed by a bunch of house republican saying that they will do this, an admission by the speaker that they had an agreement for a clean CR months ago between him and Reid that he decided to ignore to push for this, and enough votes for a clean CR that the speaker will not allow to be voted on...

Then you have to have some pretty partisan blinders on to think it's not their fault.

I don't think it's not their fault... there's enough pox to hand out on both sides. It's YOU who thinks it all lies with the House.

I just think what Reid/Obama is doing is more ridiculous...

Again:

-80something House Republicans said that their goal is to shut down the government.
-Boehner is on record during an interview admitting that he negotiated a clean CR with Reid a few months ago during which the Democrats conceded $70 billion in requested spending and that the House Republicans then decided that instead of honoring the negotiated deal they would favor shutting down the government if they don't get a new deal.
-The Speaker of the House, at the urging of his party, is refusing to allow a vote that would open the Government up today.

But not only do you claim that htis is "both sides" fault, you think that Obama is more at fault for this that the group of people who took 100% ownership of this shutdown right until the moment it happened.

You know, the really awesome thing about this is that due to gerrymandering, our government is certain to stay unworkable and broken for a long, long time.

 Ouze wrote:
You know, the really awesome thing about this is that due to gerrymandering, our government is certain to stay unworkable and broken for a long, long time.

We will fix that problem as well as soon as we get new people elected into office!

 d-usa wrote:

 Ouze wrote:
You know, the really awesome thing about this is that due to gerrymandering, our government is certain to stay unworkable and broken for a long, long time.

We will fix that problem as well as soon as we get new people elected into office!

Who will, of course, be completely different from the current batch.

I'm surprised no one's gotten shot over this mess.(Can I say that? I'm not sure if I can say that.)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/eric-cantor-divided-government-requires-bipartisan-negotiation/2013/10/08/98f6b7e6-3062-11e3-bbed-a8a60c601153_print.html

House Majority Leader has some words to say.