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My suits have Flamers and TL Meltas on them. SUUUPER flexible that way. GREAT when charged too. I throw a shield drone in there as well. It pays off when people start thinking "hmm... I need to kill those and I cant afford not to...so i need to insta-gib them with something STR 8...". The shield drone can be all the diff in the world between getting to fire them off a second time and NOT.

Ovesa star vs jotww.

What do you do to survive it? Pretty sure it's auto-lose when a our deathstar dies turn 1 to 3x drop podding rune priests spamming jotww.

Please no "no one does that" replies. Because at my locals some do and it's one of the very few things I fear facing... talisman hardly helps even with 4d6 when you need to take th test 3x times...

How about fielding an army of crisis suits and firewarriors for a couple of games, yes??

Bring someone with the Talisman, its still a deny the witch on a 6+ but with 4 tries it basically makes it slightly worse than 50-50 if i remember right.

How many units do you have to bubblewrap around the deathstar in deployment? A bunch of Kroot and starting near a table edge can do a decent job, if you're using Piranhas for positional play shenanigans then this is another great opportunity for that, their footprint per point value is pretty crazy given their speed and drones.

How many EWO units do you have? It's probably a good idea to risk the IA blast without markerlight or buffmander support depending on what the Rune Priest is coming out of the pod with.

I think if you devote your terrain placement and deployment to it you can make getting in JotWW range difficult, and if he makes it, but the Rune Priest has to be near the front for range, intercept-bombard the hell out of that unit.

If it's really a problem you could put the deathstar in reserve I guess, get a Comm Relay so they don't waste the entire game in Limbo, and get some use out of Farsight's warlord trait.

Naw wrote:
How about fielding an army of crisis suits and firewarriors for a couple of games, yes??

Huh?

@Everyone else: Looks like there is really no reliable way to block off a drop podding JotWW Rune Priest attack into an Ovesa star. With 3x Rune Priests all shooting off JotWW, even with the Talisman, having to take the test 3x times = dead deathstar for sure.

Reserving + Comms relay is probably the only answer to keep the Ovesa star alive in any sort of reliable way.

What I mean is to mix your list, don't bring the same all the time. It is clear that your opponent has tailored against lists such as yours. If you brought a different list for the next a couple of games, something that is equally effective against pod wolves, he just might modify his list also.

With Jotww's range, it is not that easy to bubblewrap.

With three or four decent sized units of kroot (12+ strong), you should be able to give yourself a decent buffer zone against JOTWW. It limits your deployment severely, but if it's that or watch half your army get killed in one turn, I know which I'd choose. Between that and intercepting riptides you should be able to minimise the effects of the drop pods.

Ally a farseer into the star and combined with the Talisman its a 4+ on 4d6 DtW.

Think he has the buffmander allied in since the ovesa star kinda wants it.

Have to admit tho i think the other guy is right that you should shift your list around. That definitely sounds like a very specific tailoring, no idea why someone would think thats a legit strat if they didnt already know there were a ton of tough I2 things to devour.

Ah, got it. Thanks guys!

Played tau behind an aegis. His list:
Skyray
3missile sides
Hammerhead w longshanks
2 fw squads
2 8 man pathfinder squads
2 Rip tides
2 3 elf windryders squads
Farseer

My list:
Sniper drones
2 9fw squads
2 10 kroot squads+5hounds +3 krootox
2riptides
3 crisis team w shield drone.
Dark strider
Utility Commander plus two marker drones
5 marker drones
2 units 6 pathfinders plus drones in devilfish

Key was killing troop choices first. Also, he used his early warning to kill the crisis team but that allowed me to approach him unfettered and to kill his troops without fear of retribution w markerlights. Overall, satisfying. Lost a riptide andcrisis unit, plus one pathfinder unit, but otherwise it went well. His broadside range did him no favors.

Wow... okay big news now...

New non-foc attachment of 1x RipTide and 2x 3 Broadside teams means you get Tank Hunter and PE: Space Marines.

What are your thoughts?

I think it's a huge point investment as far as the additional Broadside team. I usually run 2 RipTides and 1x 3 man Broadside team in almost all my lists. I can always take them out of my regular list and just say they are part of the detachment. However another 3x man Broadside team, the way I like to run them, will be another 200+ points... Tank Hunter and PE: SM worth it? I'm on the fence...

It's hard to go wrong with more Broadsides, especially ones with Tank Hunter. The Prefferred Enemy is really almost inconsequential for them though.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
Think he has the buffmander allied in since the ovesa star kinda wants it.

Have to admit tho i think the other guy is right that you should shift your list around. That definitely sounds like a very specific tailoring, no idea why someone would think thats a legit strat if they didnt already know there were a ton of tough I2 things to devour.

That isn't that much of a stretch; most units of tau and nearly all of necrons match that particular limitation. Both reasonably popular armies, at least where I play.

Where did you get that non-foc attachment with tankhunter? Giving broadsides tankhunter is nuts, only reason i never put a buffmander with them to get it is because he usually brings more death if hes with an HBC riptide or a crisis bomb.

It's in the Black Library. New Data Slate.

Pretty much everyone cant take it since Tau allies into so many people fairly easily. I kind of don't like where GW is going with this. Would be cool if it was JUST for Tau like Enclaves are. But to make it fair, have a new data slate for everyone.

I use zero Broadsides. Strange right? But that 36" range turns me OFF. I bought two of the models cause I love the models... and stopped.

To protect them is quite expensive and is it ultimately worth it if theres other things that can do the same job more often? Tau sufferno shortage of fire volume.

I combat the range issue by putting them with a large blob of Firewarriors to justify an Ethereal. Zephyr's Grace and the FNP will affect the broadsides, so i can turn 1 get them in range of stuff and still fire (snaps but theyre snapping anyway) if im against an army that has a lot of guns as well. If im against an assaulty army i dont zephyr's grace, i rarely need to move more than 6" anyway in that case with this blob.

Ethereal also fixes the leadership problems of all the units. I buy character upgrades for all FW/Broadside units because their leadership is crap (also bond them just in case). With an ethereal i dont need to do that, and actually SAVE points because i have 5 units without a character now plus the Invoke the Elements bonus.

Right but the added expense to keep them upright is really why I struggle with it because its so possible not to get much out of them.

I am not one who sniffs at synergy. I dont talk a lot about "points efficiency" either, because Im too busy beating bean counters to notice. But even I have a limit, and IF i am spending 100 points to overcome a fairly obvious vulnerability, and then more on drones to help with it, it starts to look like i might just wanna diffuse that enormous clump of points into less vulnerable pools.

For example, You're out about 250 points on that unit. Add an Aegis. 50. Add an ethereal to help out that you might not otherwise have chosen to use (and thats a maybe/maybe not, I realize that). that's 100 points,. Add in the drones. It becomes a VERY large clump of pointys and if the enemy does geometry, and gets the angle on those suits, the two riptides I own can take the Broadsides out in one round. The drones die if the controller does. So the morale MAY become a moot point anyways Each suit is also killing off its drones when it dies.

Another example: My eldar army uses Horrify and terrify in conjunction with one another. There again, I have run multiple Broadside units off the board with a whisper using that list. The War walkers come in and trash the drones, and quite possibly the Broadsides themselves; and/or the Terrify power sends them screaming away (re-rolling successful morale checks of course, thank you Mr. Hemlock fighter, at -3 due to horrify).

Broadsides are SOOOOO good against some armies. SO good. But they are SUCH a risk against others. My Warhammer bone twinges a little too rapidly at the possibility of that in a true tourney setting, where people aren't just taking the Two Riptides i have. they are taking the silliness that is 4, plus a Wraithknight just cause. People are showing up with other insanities as well.

Now these are armies I actually field, not theoretical threats that someone MIGHT bring. I am sure I'm not the only one whose thought of it or brings them.

I'm not saying to never take them. i just am not sure that range allows me to be comfortable doing it very often with Missilesides unless ti is as a hard to kill lone decoy, or perhaps a reserve to bring massive force equalization later when the enemy can less easily afford to use their heavy firepower on them. I want to be able to REALLY stay away from the enemy with those things and saturate them, which means Heavy Rail Rifles still have a very real advantage. I can stay away from the planes a round longer, I can stay out of a Riptides range (potentially) for a round, i can get my shots in and be productive. Centering them behind the Aegis line still leaves too much of a blind spot... Or at least, those are the thoughts I have when i face them as the enemy. I have not seen Missile Broadsides do well against other Tau.

Agreed against some armies therye a bit of a risk, since therye T4 and lascannons are quite common to find randomly and Eldar have those gayass 48" S8 AP2 guns (whatever theyre called, they reliably take out my riptides thats how nuts they are)

Though the cost to overcome the weakness i was speaking of is really not there to me, outside losing a commander (but i usually ally in farsight anyway). 4 groups of 10 bonded firewarriors is normal for me, under 2k no matter the points thats what i bring because thats the magic number for me between overkill and well...they did jack squat lol. The way i play tau im literally paying whatever the broadsides cost (285pts w/ drones and CF) to get them, as the Ethereal costs what my character upgrades cost i would be bringing otherwise lol.
What i DONT justify is putting commander buffy in with them. That is a ton of points to prevent 3 models from getting pasted by S8/9 attacks, and what is he bringing otherwise? not much. way way too expensive, commander buffy with iridium armor combo runs me around 230pts w/ drones (usually with crisis bombs) lol.

Ive actually never seen a horrify + terrify combo, actually never seen those spells at all lol. Local eldar players prefer divination spells.

Maybe ill send you the eldar list. It hasn't lost yet (though it did tie once. Tau are particularly unhappy to se it, mine included.

I have the same feeling with Broadsides. For the point costs, I feel like they can be taken out too easily...

This sums it up:

 Jancoran wrote:
I am not one who sniffs at synergy. I dont talk a lot about "points efficiency" either, because Im too busy beating bean counters to notice. But even I have a limit, and IF i am spending 100 points to overcome a fairly obvious vulnerability, and then more on drones to help with it, it starts to look like i might just wanna diffuse that enormous clump of points into less vulnerable pools.

After buying them Missile Drones to protect them for a turn, hopefully, they start dropping fairly easily. The point costs investment just to keep them alive is so much... I take them at 1500 and below in groups of 1x though and they are perfect. At 1750/1850+ I've been taking them in 2's with 4x Missile Drones.


But the question is... what do we replace them with that can still dish out that much firepower? Missilesides are insane with how much firepower they can dish out, if they get the chance to do it...

Riptides do heinous damage when markerlights are involved...and they're always involved.

I replaced Broadsides in my list with Riptides. The ROLE I used Broadsides for is still valid, albeit the riptide does it better. I use Firesight Marksmen and a Drone swarm to mark my targets and obliterate them with dead on shots. they instakill anything that isn't a bike (essentially) and they remove my worries about cover. Getting hot and Nove Reactor wounds are just a cost of doing business in my mind.

My list, as i mentioned earlier, is an ultramobile army that uses reserves. I whittle the heavy threats to my important units using disposable riptides and their unwillingness to allow it to continue draws the enemy into 4 clumps. the mobility allows me to attack the clumps singularly with overwhelming firepower at the point of attack and then to move that firepower to its next target. The clumps effectively can't back each other up and end up dying for lack of support, or shrinking away wisely to mitigate the damage.

The broadsides can do something similar with Heavy Rail rifles. I did it for years before Riptides arrived and could still do it if i were looking for a slight downgrade in mass killing power in exchange for an upgrade in singular firepower (plus freeing up more of my drones for other targets). So there is some value to the Heavy Rail Broadsides. You dont NEEd the Riptides, but ifyou have none, you need the Broadsides. My take on it is that the Heavy Rail Range is important. The Missilesides do copious damage if you'r in range , but being in range is not such a given. Deploying first? Even harder.

 Jancoran wrote:
Riptides do heinous damage when markerlights are involved...and they're always involved.

I replaced Broadsides in my list with Riptides. The ROLE I used Broadsides for is still valid, albeit the riptide does it better. I use Firesight Marksmen and a Drone swarm to mark my targets and obliterate them with dead on shots. they instakill anything that isn't a bike (essentially) and they remove my worries about cover. Getting hot and Nove Reactor wounds are just a cost of doing business in my mind.

My list, as i mentioned earlier, is an ultramobile army that uses reserves. I whittle the heavy threats to my important units using disposable riptides and their unwillingness to allow it to continue draws the enemy into 4 clumps. the mobility allows me to attack the clumps singularly with overwhelming firepower at the point of attack and then to move that firepower to its next target. The clumps effectively can't back each other up and end up dying for lack of support, or shrinking away wisely to mitigate the damage.

The broadsides can do something similar with Heavy Rail rifles. I did it for years before Riptides arrived and could still do it if i were looking for a slight downgrade in mass killing power in exchange for an upgrade in singular firepower (plus freeing up more of my drones for other targets). So there is some value to the Heavy Rail Broadsides. You dont NEEd the Riptides, but ifyou have none, you need the Broadsides. My take on it is that the Heavy Rail Range is important. The Missilesides do copious damage if you'r in range , but being in range is not such a given. Deploying first? Even harder.

What about Grav Guns? I like the multitude of RipTides and own 3 already, but the increase in Grav Guns in the meta will really wreck Tide Spam pretty hard.

I just fought a bike army full of them. They didn't kill a riptide until 4th turn. Seemed like killing the grav guns with outflankers worked.

Grav guns really arent THAT big of a threat unless you send your riptides down the enemy's throat. The guns are so long you should never be getting hit by them, even on bikes, until turn 2-3 which is PLENTY of time to shoot them down. Outflankers? Intercepter spam. My broadsides and riptides always have interceptor and my opponents always underestimate it because i dont get marker support during it.

The one time i faced the new marines he brought some to outflank with. It was either come in right behind my entire army, or come in on a side were they were worse off than deploying normally it was so far. Naturally he got the side with all my stuff, and my 2 riptides and 3 broadsides devoured them. Both actually, had 2 units lol.

Saying you have until T3 before biker grav guns get in range is dreaming. Many of these bike lists are running Khan (which gives them all Scout). Between that and ignoring all difficult terrain, they can be literally on the edge of your deployment zone T1, before you've even taken a turn.

Yes, you can run a Kroot screen, but then they can just run Servo Skulls.

Outflankers are admittedly less of a threat, but depending on terrain density I wouldn't count on Interceptor spam really hindering them.

I guess the only way to really protect against them because realistically they will be shooting you 1st turn with those Grav Guns is to reserve or Bubble Wrap better...

Back to Broadsides...
I've been thinking of converting 2x of my Broadsides to Railsides and keeping my other 2x Missile Sides in my list or just outright replacing Broadsides. They are in too soft a shell with the increase of S8 and AP2 weaponry being used...

What have you guys been thinking about replacing them with? I'm thinking of actually just allying Eldar instead of my regular Farsight Enclave and getting some WS spam going

I think some people are bringing an inquisitor and servo-skulls to prevent bikes from scouting up and gunning things down turn one.

This is probably something to consider if this is common in your area.