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So i had my devilish get a crew shaken result and on my turn i had used some marker lights to lite up a target. If i use the seeker missile ability for marker lights and use the 1 seeker missile on the devil fish will the missile have to roll a 6 (snap snot) in order to hit? and can i use the increase bs ability of marker lights to improve that?

If a markerlight is used to launch a seeker missile it is resolved at BS5 no matter what.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And yes you can use the Pinpoint ability to raise the BS of snapshots

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
If a markerlight is used to launch a seeker missile it is resolved at BS5 no matter what.

That's not actually what the rule says...

rigeld2 wrote:

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
If a markerlight is used to launch a seeker missile it is resolved at BS5 no matter what.

That's not actually what the rule says...

It Says it is resolved at BS5. So besides him not qouting the rule word for word i don't see how he is wrong.

 Lemartes12 wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

 IXLoiero95XI wrote:
If a markerlight is used to launch a seeker missile it is resolved at BS5 no matter what.

That's not actually what the rule says...

It Says it is resolved at BS5. So besides him not qouting the rule word for word i don't see how he is wrong.

Because it doesn't override the Snap Shot requirement without specific exception.

It doesn't say it is being fired as a snap shot either. It only states its being rolled at BS5. Which is a different profile than the vehicle itself.
So are you saying that a Tau vehichle that has moved flat out cannot shoot a seeker missle, though the only real stipulation with the vehicle states that it must be fired at the same target as the Seeker.

If so i would have to disagree on that point.

 Lemartes12 wrote:
It doesn't say it is being fired as a snap shot either. It only states its being rolled at BS5. Which is a different profile than the vehicle itself.
So are you saying that a Tau vehichle that has moved flat out cannot shoot a seeker missle, though the only real stipulation with the vehicle states that it must be fired at the same target as the Seeker.

If so i would have to disagree on that point.

You can disagree with what the rules say, but you'd be incorrect in a rules based discussion.
And unless the Seeker rules specifically allow flat out and firing! no you can't do that either. It's like rules matter or something...

not this garbage argument again. The same crap happened with firing at flyers.

 davou wrote:
not this garbage argument again. The same crap happened with firing at flyers.

i haven't seen that one.

I have to agree with Rigeld 2 here,

On the matter of snap shots:
Multiple FAQ's have come forth and shown that snap shots are a specific rule that always over-writes any 'set to' or 'resolve at' rule-sets. If it did follow the normal order of events, then it would be nothing more then a set to command. While this would mean it is applied last too, it would be applied at the same time as other set to commands, allowing the player whom turn it is to decide which order the set to commands work at. Effectively, you would have permission fifty percent of the time to always over-write the snap shot BS if it was treated as a standard set to modifier.

Therefore a Set To or Resolve At Modifier does not over-ride Snap Shot unless it specifically states it does.

Disabled firing:
I would also have to say the unit firing needs to fill the requirements to fire a weapon before it can use the seeker function of a marker light. This is because the rule uses words such as 'the model immediately fires' and we use all the other rules related to firing a weapon to resolve said shooting attack. There is nothing in the rule set granting us the ability to ignore one of the largest limitations that is put in place before any model can fire a weapon, being eligible to shoot in the first place.

Therefore any situation which causes the model to lose the ability to fire would also prevent them from being able to fire a seeker missile using a marker light.

JinxDragon wrote:

Disabled firing:
I would also have to say the unit firing needs to fill the requirements to fire a weapon before it can use the seeker function of a marker light. This is because the rule uses words such as 'the model immediately fires' and we use all the other rules related to firing a weapon to resolve said shooting attack. There is nothing in the rule set granting us the ability to ignore one of the largest limitations that is put in place before any model can fire a weapon, being eligible to shoot in the first place.

Therefore any situation which causes the model to lose the ability to fire would also prevent them from being able to fire a seeker missile using a marker light.

Except that Seeker Missiles are very different from any other weapon. There are no restrictions on the number of them that you can fire, so a skyray can fire it's whole payload if you want. This clearly identifies something unusual about Seekers which (as I believe) could allow it's BS profile to be different than the vehicles.

 BlueRift wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:

Disabled firing:
I would also have to say the unit firing needs to fill the requirements to fire a weapon before it can use the seeker function of a marker light. This is because the rule uses words such as 'the model immediately fires' and we use all the other rules related to firing a weapon to resolve said shooting attack. There is nothing in the rule set granting us the ability to ignore one of the largest limitations that is put in place before any model can fire a weapon, being eligible to shoot in the first place.

Therefore any situation which causes the model to lose the ability to fire would also prevent them from being able to fire a seeker missile using a marker light.

Except that Seeker Missiles are very different from any other weapon. There are no restrictions on the number of them that you can fire, so a skyray can fire it's whole payload if you want. This clearly identifies something unusual about Seekers which (as I believe) could allow it's BS profile to be different than the vehicles.

Any vehicle sitting still can fire their whole payload - that's not new.

rigeld2 wrote:

 BlueRift wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:

Disabled firing:
I would also have to say the unit firing needs to fill the requirements to fire a weapon before it can use the seeker function of a marker light. This is because the rule uses words such as 'the model immediately fires' and we use all the other rules related to firing a weapon to resolve said shooting attack. There is nothing in the rule set granting us the ability to ignore one of the largest limitations that is put in place before any model can fire a weapon, being eligible to shoot in the first place.

Therefore any situation which causes the model to lose the ability to fire would also prevent them from being able to fire a seeker missile using a marker light.

Except that Seeker Missiles are very different from any other weapon. There are no restrictions on the number of them that you can fire, so a skyray can fire it's whole payload if you want. This clearly identifies something unusual about Seekers which (as I believe) could allow it's BS profile to be different than the vehicles.

Any vehicle sitting still can fire their whole payload - that's not new.

Except that Seeker missles do not count toward the number of weapons fired. So a hammerhead that moves its maxium allowed distance to still be able to fire 1 weapon can still fire off both seeker missles.

 Lemartes12 wrote:
Except that Seeker missles do not count toward the number of weapons fired. So a hammerhead that moves its maxium allowed distance to still be able to fire 1 weapon can still fire off both seeker missles.

Thanks for the clarification - but that still doesn't mean anything with respect to the question at hand.

JinxDragon wrote:


Multiple FAQ's have come forth and shown that snap shots are a specific rule that always over-writes any 'set to' or 'resolve at' rule-sets.

Not that it is applicable anymore, but the old Tau faq said that a vehicle could snapshot a missile at bs5 (other than shooting a flyer), which did set a precedent.

And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:


Multiple FAQ's have come forth and shown that snap shots are a specific rule that always over-writes any 'set to' or 'resolve at' rule-sets.

Not that it is applicable anymore, but the old Tau faq said that a vehicle could snapshot a missile at bs5 (other than shooting a flyer), which did set a precedent.

And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

^ Good arguement

 Lemartes12 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:

JinxDragon wrote:


Multiple FAQ's have come forth and shown that snap shots are a specific rule that always over-writes any 'set to' or 'resolve at' rule-sets.

Not that it is applicable anymore, but the old Tau faq said that a vehicle could snapshot a missile at bs5 (other than shooting a flyer), which did set a precedent.

And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

^ Good arguement

Old rules from an old Codex.
They normally incorperate FAQ's into newer versions of the rules, the fact that they didn't is telling.

or GW just forgets to inlcude alot of things in their new books. But I guess it all really matters on two things now
1) Players in a friendly game agreeing on the rule
and
2) What the TO says is the rule.

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Where is the conflict? There is no rules that Seekers make snap shots at BS5 - only that they're fired at BS5. Snap Shot says that they must resolve at Bs1.

rigeld2 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Where is the conflict? There is no rules that Seekers make snap shots at BS5 - only that they're fired at BS5. Snap Shot says that they must resolve at Bs1.

Except the rules say that snapshot are treated as bs1 and seeker missiles are resolved as bs5.

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Where is the conflict? There is no rules that Seekers make snap shots at BS5 - only that they're fired at BS5. Snap Shot says that they must resolve at Bs1.

Except the rules say that snapshot are treated as bs1 and seeker missiles are resolved as bs5.

And FAQ trumps Codex:

Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

Unless Seeker Missiles specifically say it's BS5 for Snap Shots, it isn't (and it doesn't).

It is long argued:

It is a matter of order of events, an issue of timing, which brings us the the answer of Ballistic Score 1. The resolved as rule is a set modification which is normally applied last. Snap shots are an advanced rule that are also resolved last. Thanks to FAQ's we are informed that the Snap Shot set modification is of higher priority then any other set modifications, that no modifications can occur afterwards. Therefore it goes last in the order of events, even when those events are simultaneous, in order to ensure that it is not modified further.

So marker light sets the BS to 5 then snap shots lowers it to 1.

 grendel083 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Where is the conflict? There is no rules that Seekers make snap shots at BS5 - only that they're fired at BS5. Snap Shot says that they must resolve at Bs1.

Except the rules say that snapshot are treated as bs1 and seeker missiles are resolved as bs5.

And FAQ trumps Codex:

Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

Unless Seeker Missiles specifically say it's BS5 for Snap Shots, it isn't (and it doesn't).

Could you tell me where it says that faqs trump codices? I can't find it anywhere. Also, that faq that you quoted is for the main rulebook. The Tau codex explicitly says that marker lights can increase the bs on a snapshot. So you are saying that a BRB faq overrides the codex? It seems to me that it would have to be a codex faq for it to. Though, this is a different argument entirely.

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
Could you tell me where it says that faqs trump codices? I can't find it anywhere.

If they didn't, they wouldn't actually work, would they?
And as with all things, a conflict is needed.

The Tau codex explicitly says that marker lights can increase the bs on a snapshot.

It does indeed! Does the Seeker missile rules also say this?

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
The Tau codex explicitly says that marker lights can increase the bs on a snapshot.

But it does not say that for Seeker Missiles.

 grendel083 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Where is the conflict? There is no rules that Seekers make snap shots at BS5 - only that they're fired at BS5. Snap Shot says that they must resolve at Bs1.

Except the rules say that snapshot are treated as bs1 and seeker missiles are resolved as bs5.

And FAQ trumps Codex:

Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

Unless Seeker Missiles specifically say it's BS5 for Snap Shots, it isn't (and it doesn't).

Which does not apply, we are not modifying the BS1, we are resolving an attack at a different BS.

Modifying would be +/- 1 or more, Doubling, halving, or setting the value. You are doing none of these, you are resolving an attack at a set value(you are still being treated as BS 1). The same would be true for a Stalker using the split-fire profile against non-skimmer/flyer/FMC targets; it must snapshot and therefore is treated as BS1, but the shots are resolved at BS2 via the rule.

I appreciate you guys taking what I said out of context.

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
I appreciate you guys taking what I said out of context.

Context has no place in YMDC.

Trust me, I know

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 grendel083 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:

Schrodingers_Kitty wrote:
And considering page 7 of BRB: "On rare occasions, a conflict will arise between a rule in this rulebook, and one printed in a codex. Where is occurs, the rule printed in the codex always takes precedence." I'd have to say, right now, that the missiles snapshot at bs5.

Where is the conflict? There is no rules that Seekers make snap shots at BS5 - only that they're fired at BS5. Snap Shot says that they must resolve at Bs1.

Except the rules say that snapshot are treated as bs1 and seeker missiles are resolved as bs5.

And FAQ trumps Codex:

Q: Can the BS1 of a Snap Shot ever be modified by special rules that modify the BS of a model’s Shooting attack (such as Space Marine Signums or Sergeant Telion’s Voice of Experience)? (p13)
A: No.

Unless Seeker Missiles specifically say it's BS5 for Snap Shots, it isn't (and it doesn't).

Which does not apply, we are not modifying the BS1, we are resolving an attack at a different BS.

Modifying would be +/- 1 or more, Doubling, halving, or setting the value. You are doing none of these, you are resolving an attack at a set value(you are still being treated as BS 1). The same would be true for a Stalker using the split-fire profile against non-skimmer/flyer/FMC targets; it must snapshot and therefore is treated as BS1, but the shots are resolved at BS2 via the rule.

You are setting a value. Just like the Signum does, just like Telion does.

See my understanding is i can use marker light "pinpoint" to increase the seeker missiles snapshot bs 1 skill to say 5 (depending on how many markerlights) that part i can understand (if its true). But its if a seeker missile has the 5 bs even tho in BRB it says snapshots are resolved at bs 1, but seeing that the codex says "is resolved at BS 5" would make me believe no matter what it always uses bs 5.