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Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 whembly wrote:
To be honest, I still think it's the wrong tactic for the GOP... but, what I object is you constant labeling that it's the GOP faults all the time... because you guys... the GOP are icky.
This shut down is 100% the GOP's fault. Or, looking at it from a Tea Party perspective, the shut down is 100% a GOP success.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Alfndrate wrote:
having 25 republicans voting against the spending bill with the added provisions does give House Democrats the simple majority needed to shoot down anything from House Republicans with this, that's fine. But isn't that simply so the government can stop being shut down? Or does it actually solve anything?
Doesn't solve anything? It solves the problem of the GOP's brinksmanship politics deadlocking Congress. Yes, the point is to keep the government from shutting down. It's not like King and Dent support the ACA -- they just understand that their party can't keep running to the nuclear option.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 18:25:27


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Manchu wrote:
 ironicsilence wrote:
umm the tea party folks are doing exactly what they got elected to do.
Absolutely correct. Just want to add that "what they got elected to do" is not just "stop Obamacare" but also "destroy the federal government."


Only in the fairie dust unicorn dreamland where lefties and the NY Times hangs out.

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Frazzled wrote:
 Manchu wrote:
 ironicsilence wrote:
umm the tea party folks are doing exactly what they got elected to do.
Absolutely correct. Just want to add that "what they got elected to do" is not just "stop Obamacare" but also "destroy the federal government."
Only in the fairie dust unicorn dreamland where lefties and the NY Times hangs out.
As opposed to reality -- where we stock up on ammunition and decades' worth of canned goods, learn to make water purifiers to get rid of that fluoride threatening our precious bodily fluids, deny our children vaccinations on the advice of chiropractors, protect them from the lies of climate change and evolution, and always always always make sure our tinfoil hats are pulled down securely over our eyes and ears.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/01 18:33:40


   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 DogofWar1 wrote:
 whembly wrote:

So... what about the Employer Mandate delay. What about putting the Congress Critters on the same exchange calculus as us Plebs?


Mentioned in the other thread, but the employer mandate is not as integral to keeping costs down, as compared to the individual mandate. The employer mandate may help, but it isn't guaranteed to put more people into the system, while the individual mandate is specifically designed to ensure that.

That's where you're incredibly wrong. Those with 50 or more employers would be REQUIRED to office plans that fit the ACA regulations or face the TAX. As in... either revenue come's in that is earmarked for the public exchange, or the Big Business offers the plans themselves.

Also, while Congress has good healthcare, it's not the "free super duper healthcare for Congress only NO PEASANTS ALLOWED" version many think it is. It can be changed, and I wouldn't be opposed to some changes, but I think the whole Congressional Healthcare issue is overblown, and used more because it looks good politically to bang the table about than anything else.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/08/health-care-for-members-of-congress/

Update the date search dude.

The point is... the ACA was the law of the land...eh? Well the OMB "changed the rules" arbitrarily. Just like Obama did for the Employer Mandate.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/01 19:01:58


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

Manchu wrote:]As opposed to reality -- where we stock up on ammunition

Define "stock up"


and decades' worth of canned goods

You're thinking preppers, not a political party. The way I eat, you'd need the Alamodome for that kind of food.


, learn to make water purifiers to get rid of that fluoride threatening our precious bodily fluids,

SHhh....the first rule of OPE is we don't talk about OPE!!!


deny our children vaccinations on the advice of chiropractors

You're thinking lefty wackjobs now.



, protect them from the lies of climate change and evolution,


The climate is always changing. I hope you protect your kids from evolution, thats why we're no longer afraid of large cats in the night.


and always always always make sure our tinfoil hats are pulled down securely over our eyes and ears.

Tin foil can be recycled. Whats your pboelm? You don't like Mother Nature? What are you some kind of greedy corporate devil?

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Frazzled wrote:
You're thinking preppers, not a political party.
Yep, just like the Tea Party isn't a political party.

   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Manchu wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
You're thinking preppers, not a political party.
Yep, just like the Tea Party isn't a political party.


Its agroup of people that go to a party and like tea. works for me. Please define political party then, or should I use your dictum to the New Black Panther Party into the Democrat Party, or maybe the KKK into the Democratic Party.

After all, the Democrats wwere the only one to have a KKK Wizard in Congress...

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

Have you ever heard of a Venn diagram? Or a history book, while we're at it?

EDIT: Also, I don't want to hear any whining in response from you, Frazz. At this point, I'm taking the exchange exactly as seriously as you are. Womp womp.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2013/10/01 19:30:30


   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

Cross posted from the other thread:

People were asking about congress being a part of the exchanges and whatnot? I found this interesting.

With the federal government nearing shutdown, House Speaker John Boehner stood on the House floor Monday and called on his colleagues to vote for a bill banning a “so-called exemption” that lawmakers and staffers receive for their health insurance.
“Why don’t we make sure that every American is treated just like we are?” Boehner asked, seeking to prohibit members of Congress and Capitol Hill aides from getting thousands of dollars in subsidies for their health insurance as they join Obamacare-mandated insurance exchanges.

Yet behind-the-scenes, Boehner and his aides worked for months with Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.), House Minority Whip Steny Hoyer (D-Md.), and others, to save these very same, long-standing subsidies, according to documents and e-mails provided to POLITICO. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) was also aware of these discussions, the documents show.

During a five-month period stretching from February to July, Boehner and his aides sought along with Reid’s office to solve what had become a big headache for both of them. They drafted and reviewed a possible legislative fix, as well as continued to push for an administrative one from the Office of Personnel Management.

Boehner and Reid, in fact, went so far as to ask to meet with President Barack Obama to lobby him personally for help — using a cover story in order to protect the secrecy of the discussions, according to these documents.


Keep at it Boehner, doing a great job there! *jazz hands*
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran





 whembly wrote:

That's where you're incredibly wrong. Those with 50 or more employers would be REQUIRED to office plans that fit the ACA regulations or face the TAX. As in... either revenue come's in that is earmarked for the public exchange, or the Big Business offers the plans themselves.


The employer mandate has a blind spot, namely everyone working for companies smaller than 50 people. That's a lot of people.

In addition, large companies are required to offer coverage, but there is no requirement that people take it. The company provides the opportunity to enroll, it does not actually enroll them or require people to take it. With purely the employer mandate, a 25 year old who doesn't want healthcare coverage who works for a large company does not have to take the offer the company provides.

The result is that people not currently enrolled in healthcare plans by choice may choose to remain off said rolls. The employer mandate would likely increase the people covered, but it provides no guarantee of it, as I said.

And that is why the individual mandate is necessary. Joe 25 year old Schmoe may still choose to not have insurance under the employer mandate (keeping the pool small enough that prices increase when you take other ACA changes like pre-existing conditions into account, while he is simultaneously still liable to increase costs for the system if he suddenly requires major medical attention). Under the individual mandate, he must have insurance.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 19:34:32


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Manchu wrote:
Have you ever heard of a Venn diagram? Or a history book, while we're at it?

EDIT: Also, I don't want to hear any whining in response from you, Frazz. At this point, I'm taking the exchange exactly as seriously as you are. Womp womp.

1. Are these both directed at me?
2. Not only have I read one history book, I've read almost a history book and a half. I'll have you know I've also watched not only The Patriot, but also almost all of the Simpson Episode with the Declaration of Independence. So take that YankeeDog!

-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in us
[MOD]
Solahma






RVA

 Frazzled wrote:
So take that YankeeDog!
This again?

   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

Both sides are not acting like idiots this time. The Dems acted like idiots LAST time and let the R's think they could extort them THIS time.

This time around, the Dem's are just saying no. We will not negotiate with extortionists. This is what they should have done last time, but the pres wanted some Grand Bargain and got snubbed.... again.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
Both sides are not acting like idiots this time. The Dems acted like idiots LAST time and let the R's think they could extort them THIS time.

This time around, the Dem's are just saying no. We will not negotiate with extortionists. This is what they should have done last time, but the pres wanted some Grand Bargain and got snubbed.... again.

So who's the party of "no" again?


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Yea'rly!)




The Great State of Texas

 Manchu wrote:
 Frazzled wrote:
So take that YankeeDog!
This again?


Dude you're north of me, and therefor a Yankee. Dog is a compliment (see the avatar derp).

But now that I recollect I read Killer Angels too. As thats historical fiction, I'm going to count it. So thats two and half history books. nananana YankeeDog!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Easy E wrote:
Both sides are not acting like idiots this time. The Dems acted like idiots LAST time and let the R's think they could extort them THIS time.

This time around, the Dem's are just saying no. We will not negotiate with extortionists. This is what they should have done last time, but the pres wanted some Grand Bargain and got snubbed.... again.


Yep. Works for me.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 19:44:29


-"Wait a minute.....who is that Frazz is talking to in the gallery? Hmmm something is going on here.....Oh.... it seems there is some dispute over video taping of some sort......Frazz is really upset now..........wait a minute......whats he go there.......is it? Can it be?....Frazz has just unleashed his hidden weiner dog from his mini bag, while quoting shakespeares "Let slip the dogs the war!!" GG
-"Don't mind Frazzled. He's just Dakka's crazy old dude locked in the attic. He's harmless. Mostly."
-TBone the Magnificent 1999-2014, Long Live the King!
 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 whembly wrote:
So who's the party of "no" again?


There is a difference between "We will not support a single thing the other side offers up for consideration unless they give us EVERYTHING we want, and I mean everything, happy ending and all" and "What you are suggesting would be to throw away the notion of compromise and simply let you run the show".

This isn't exactly subtle nuance here.
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Forar wrote:
 whembly wrote:
So who's the party of "no" again?


There is a difference between "We will not support a single thing the other side offers up for consideration unless they give us EVERYTHING we want, and I mean everything, happy ending and all" and "What you are suggesting would be to throw away the notion of compromise and simply let you run the show".

This isn't exactly subtle nuance here.

Read up on the House's Power of the Purse. It isn't a new precedent here...

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

I'm starting to wish this bill would die just so both parties would quit fighting each other tooth and nail over it.

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'm starting to wish this bill would die just so both parties would quit fighting each other tooth and nail over it.


Nah, it would just be something else, as long as History's Greatest Monster© remains in the White House.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
Battlefield Tourist




MN (Currently in WY)

 whembly wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Both sides are not acting like idiots this time. The Dems acted like idiots LAST time and let the R's think they could extort them THIS time.

This time around, the Dem's are just saying no. We will not negotiate with extortionists. This is what they should have done last time, but the pres wanted some Grand Bargain and got snubbed.... again.

So who's the party of "no" again?





Good line.

However, it doesn;t change the truth of the matter. Compromise is not giving the other guy everything they want or else bad things happen. Their is another word for that.

Support Blood and Spectacles Publishing:
https://www.patreon.com/Bloodandspectaclespublishing 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Easy E wrote:
 whembly wrote:
 Easy E wrote:
Both sides are not acting like idiots this time. The Dems acted like idiots LAST time and let the R's think they could extort them THIS time.

This time around, the Dem's are just saying no. We will not negotiate with extortionists. This is what they should have done last time, but the pres wanted some Grand Bargain and got snubbed.... again.

So who's the party of "no" again?





Good line.

However, it doesn;t change the truth of the matter. Compromise is not giving the other guy everything they want or else bad things happen. Their is another word for that.

Sure... reading on my twittah feed... looks like the R's are blinking. Go figure...

Look... E... What the Republicans are doing is dumb... I agree. What I'm objecting to this whole crazy pants thing that it's ALL REPUBLCIAN'S FAULT ALL THE TIME defence. Both parties are absolutely refusing to compromise.... so both are culpable.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 whembly wrote:
Look... E... What the Republicans are doing is dumb... I agree.


Wow, we actually agree on something! Let this be a new era of peace and understanding between our peoples!

What I'm objecting to this whole crazy pants thing that it's ALL REPUBLCIAN'S FAULT ALL THE TIME defence.


Dealing is absolutes is rarely (lol) a good idea, however in this case...

Both parties are absolutely refusing to compromise.... so both are culpable.


So ends that era.
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Ouze wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I'm starting to wish this bill would die just so both parties would quit fighting each other tooth and nail over it.


Nah, it would just be something else, as long as History's Greatest Monster© remains in the White House.

I don't know if I'd call Obama our worst president, but I definitely think the complete inability of our Congress to agree on almost anything is definitely affecting his run.

Of course, I'm one of those evil "Libertarians" that is allied with the Tea Party and want the federal government to collapse into the depths of hell, so what do I know?

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 whembly wrote:
Sure... reading on my twittah feed... looks like the R's are blinking. Go figure...


You see that thing with the WW2 vets at the memorial? That was pretty sweet.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 20:36:51


 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Forar wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Look... E... What the Republicans are doing is dumb... I agree.


Wow, we actually agree on something! Let this be a new era of peace and understanding between our peoples!

YEAH!

What I'm objecting to this whole crazy pants thing that it's ALL REPUBLCIAN'S FAULT ALL THE TIME defence.


Dealing is absolutes is rarely (lol) a good idea, however in this case...

Both parties are absolutely refusing to compromise.... so both are culpable.


So ends that era.



Seriously... what is it you're not getting that the House has the power over the purse? The House and Senate are co-equal to one another.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Last Remaining Whole C'Tan






Pleasant Valley, Iowa

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I don't know if I'd call Obama our worst president, but I definitely think the complete inability of our Congress to agree on almost anything is definitely affecting his run.

Of course, I'm one of those evil "Libertarians" that is allied with the Tea Party and want the federal government to collapse into the depths of hell, so what do I know?


Clearly you are a Republican In Name Only, and the faithful must see that a primary challenge is mounted for you, infidel.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.

 Flinty wrote:
The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Ouze wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Sure... reading on my twittah feed... looks like the R's are blinking. Go figure...


You see that thing with the WW2 vets at the memorial? That was pretty sweet.

No...

*google-fu*

Woah... that's touching. Kudos for those Park Rangers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Ouze wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I don't know if I'd call Obama our worst president, but I definitely think the complete inability of our Congress to agree on almost anything is definitely affecting his run.

Of course, I'm one of those evil "Libertarians" that is allied with the Tea Party and want the federal government to collapse into the depths of hell, so what do I know?


Clearly you are a Republican In Name Only, and the faithful must see that a primary challenge is mounted for you, infidel.

Yeah... that ugly purity strain will rear it's ugly head... one of the major problems with the GOP.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 20:40:08


Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
Made in us
Heroic Senior Officer





Western Kentucky

 Ouze wrote:
 MrMoustaffa wrote:
I don't know if I'd call Obama our worst president, but I definitely think the complete inability of our Congress to agree on almost anything is definitely affecting his run.

Of course, I'm one of those evil "Libertarians" that is allied with the Tea Party and want the federal government to collapse into the depths of hell, so what do I know?


Clearly you are a Republican In Name Only, and the faithful must see that a primary challenge is mounted for you, infidel.

Clearly

'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader

"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell  
   
Made in ca
Grizzled MkII Monster Veteran




Toronto, Ontario

 whembly wrote:
Seriously... what is it you're not getting that the House has the power over the purse? The House and Senate are co-equal to one another.


I understand it fine.

However trying to paint both parties and both the house and the senate as equally culpable for this shutdown is unrealistic. Asking for the same thing a half dozen times (or 40+ times) and getting told "no" is not unreasonable. What's unreasonable is an inability to take that original "No" and do something constructive with it.

An old cliche is that doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is one sign of insanity.

Now apply that to a group of people continually asking another to just do what they want because reasons. They've already said no. Asking again (and again and again and again and again) isn't cooperating in good faith, it's running out the clock.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/01 20:44:11


 
   
Made in us
5th God of Chaos! (Ho-hum)





Curb stomping in the Eye of Terror!

 Forar wrote:
 whembly wrote:
Seriously... what is it you're not getting that the House has the power over the purse? The House and Senate are co-equal to one another.


I understand it fine.

However trying to paint both parties and both the house and the senate as equally culpable for this shutdown is unrealistic. Asking for the same thing a half dozen times (or 40+ times) and getting told "no" is not unreasonable. What's unreasonable is an inability to take that original "No" and do something constructive with it.

A cliche is that doing the same thing and expecting a different outcome is one sign of insanity.

Now apply that to a group of people continually asking another to just do what they want because reasons. They've already said no. Asking again (and again and again and again and again) isn't cooperating in good faith, it's running out the clock.

And the big hammer is that PURSE. It's not different than if the President vetoes a hypothetical law, Congress can still pass it by overriding it because they feel it's necessary. The House feels strongly about doing something about the ACA (as its one of the things they campaigned on)... they sent numerous proposals, in many variations to no avail. The PURSE is their hammer.

Live Ork, Be Ork. or D'Ork!


 
   
 
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