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I'm just going to pay the fine tax for now. It's too cheap not to and they gotta give me health care anyway should I need it.

Or don't pay it. They can't come take it from you.

No such luck, Seaward. They take it out of your income tax refund. :/

Actually, the major component of healthcare.gov is that at the end when you see all the available plans, if you don't pick one, prompts you to enroll in W2 witholdings out of your paycheck for the penalty.

Also, most employers if you are not enrolled in your company's complaint plan, you have to provide evidence of another plan or else they will report it and have it taken out of your paycheck. We just went through this and our employees had to provide evidence of spouse plans or other insurance. Our insurance provider is 'complaint' now even though they don't have to be yet, and a major component is a framework to get penalties ASAP.

Relapse wrote:

I love the way the Democrats and media were trying to say Obamacare was a Republican concept once everything to do with it started going to gak. Interesting statements considering every Republican voted against it.

People, members of the Democrat Party and the "media", have been saying that for years. It is not an argument that sprung up because of the roll-out.

 Dreadclaw69 wrote:

So remind me again of the legal basis for this delay. After all before the shutdown the Republicans were told that any delay would be illegal and unconstitutional, and it was the refusal to consider a delay that caused the shutdown. It is looking more like the SS Obamacare has been holed below the waterline and it's all Democrat hands bailing her out so she stays afloat and limps to shore.

To wit, members of the GOP and some of its hangers on, argued that the delay of the employer mandate was illegal and if the employer mandate was being delayed, then the individual mandate should also be delayed.

I do not recall members of the GOP, or its hangers on, being told that any delay to the implementation of the individual mandate would be illegal, or Unconstitutional. I do recall similar arguments being made during the shutdown of the Federal government, but they were not specific to the individual mandate.

nkelsch wrote:
Actually, the major component of healthcare.gov is that at the end when you see all the available plans, if you don't pick one, prompts you to enroll in W2 witholdings out of your paycheck for the penalty.

Also, most employers if you are not enrolled in your company's complaint plan, you have to provide evidence of another plan or else they will report it and have it taken out of your paycheck. We just went through this and our employees had to provide evidence of spouse plans or other insurance. Our insurance provider is 'complaint' now even though they don't have to be yet, and a major component is a framework to get penalties ASAP.

That's interesting... there's no current mechanism to force employers to do that. I think this is a "cover your ass" thing by your company (smart), since much of the PPACA is confusing as all hell.

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

I love the way the Democrats and media were trying to say Obamacare was a Republican concept once everything to do with it started going to gak. Interesting statements considering every Republican voted against it.

People, members of the Democrat Party and the "media", have been saying that for years. It is not an argument that sprung up because of the roll-out.
.

It became a far bigger talking point, though, when everything went to pieces. The fact that not a single Republican voted for this version says to me they didn't think it was a good thing. Given everyone was trying to opt out, from government employees to unions, who said, "It would break the back of labor". Should have been some form of warning that this legislation was bad.

The Democrats are currently worried about getting politically burned by this and are trying to include Republicans in Obamacare despite the fact it was passed along party lines

If you want Health Insurance. Willing to go outside the box thinking......

Prime Enrollment Fees

All TRICARE Prime enrollees are required to pay enrollment fees, except:
•Active duty service members
•Active duty family members
•Transitional survivors
•Beneficiaries under age 65 who have both Medicare Part A and B

Annual Enrollment Fees

October 1, 2013 - September 30, 2014
•Individual: $273.84 per year
•Family: $547.68 per year

Might want to join a NG or Reserve unit of any branch....just saying....do two-three years and your good to go afterwards. Sign up during training....

Relapse wrote:

It became a far bigger talking point, though, when everything went to pieces.

It was a major topic of conversation during the passage of the law so it is hardly surprising that Democrats, and their hangers on, in defense of the law's enaction, would make the same argument.

Relapse wrote:

The fact that not a single Republican voted for this version says to me they didn't think it was a good thing. Given everyone was trying to opt out, from government employees to unions, who said, "It would break the back of labor". Should have been some form of warning that this legislation was bad.

It is bad, but it is bad due in large part to the GOP deciding that any healthcare reform sponsored by the Democrats would be bad*.

But which government employees were trying to opt out? And who said "It would break the back of labor"? I cannot find that quote by way of a cursory Google search.



*Because, for members of the GOP, it would be. Successfully reforming US healthcare would be really good for the party that sponsored the reform.

I do believe Boehner and Reid were both trying to opt themselves out or at least those individuals who work with them in both the Senate and the House.

 dogma wrote:

It is bad, but it is bad due in large part to the GOP deciding that any healthcare reform sponsored by the Democrats would be bad*.

But which government employees were trying to opt out? And who said "It would break the back of labor"? I cannot find that quote by way of a cursory Google search.



*Because, for members of the GOP, it would be. Successfully reforming US healthcare would be really good for the party that sponsored the reform.

when dems are in power, and dems pass a law, that the GOP unanimously works against, and goes so far as the shut down the government over, then its not their law.

Blaming the GOP for a law made by the other side is a cop out, give credit where credit is due.

and basically a lot of the people making the law are the people who want to get out of being under that law...

that was one of the big red flashing warning signs a lot of people have been trying to get through to people, in this very thread its been mentioned.

You've entered the Dogma semantic wordgame zone Easysauce, there is nothing you'll say that he won't worm his way around.

Hold one. I do not view Dogma the same as I view..Brass Scorpian....and....WTH is his name in Raliegh, NC,,,that view the Dem who can do no wrong. I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

 dogma wrote:

Relapse wrote:

It became a far bigger talking point, though, when everything went to pieces.

It was a major topic of conversation during the passage of the law so it is hardly surprising that Democrats, and their hangers on, in defense of the law's enaction, would make the same argument.

Relapse wrote:

The fact that not a single Republican voted for this version says to me they didn't think it was a good thing. Given everyone was trying to opt out, from government employees to unions, who said, "It would break the back of labor". Should have been some form of warning that this legislation was bad.

It is bad, but it is bad due in large part to the GOP deciding that any healthcare reform sponsored by the Democrats would be bad*.

But which government employees were trying to opt out? And who said "It would break the back of labor"? I cannot find that quote by way of a cursory Google search.



*Because, for members of the GOP, it would be. Successfully reforming US healthcare would be really good for the party that sponsored the reform.

It was all over the news a couple of months back and links are buried somewhere in the thread, but unions were begging to get special treatment from the law they helped foist on the rest of us. From a few months ago:


http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2013/07/15/labor-leaders-obamacare-will-shatter-their-health-benefits-cause-nightmare-scenarios/


Here's a transcript of the letter sent to Obama:


http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2013/07/12/union-letter-obamacare-will-destroy-the-very-health-and-wellbeing-of-workers/

As a further note, the unions got what they asked for and left the rest of us in the gak hole they helped dig:


http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2013/11/07/the-obamacare-bailout-for-unions-is-here-n1742210


Here's some of what is going on with congress trying to opt out or get substantial subsities others won't:


http://www.nationalreview.com/article/358550/congresss-exemption-obamacare-john-fund


Once again, this was all over the news a few months back and there are links buried in the threads on Obamacare about it.

 easysauce wrote:

when dems are in power, and dems pass a law, that the GOP unanimously works against, and goes so far as the shut down the government over, then its not their law.

Blaming the GOP for a law made by the other side is a cop out, give credit where credit is due.

I'm not blaming the GOP for passing the law, I am blaming the GOP for contributing to the nature of the law.

 easysauce wrote:

and basically a lot of the people making the law are the people who want to get out of being under that law...

that was one of the big red flashing warning signs a lot of people have been trying to get through to people, in this very thread its been mentioned.

Do you know the names of those people.?

Relapse wrote:

It was all over the news a couple of months back and links are buried somewhere in the thread, but unions were begging to get special treatment from the law they helped foist on the rest of us.

I still cannot find the quote "It will break the back of labor". Perhaps this is what you felt was said, but not what was actually said?

It talks about destroying the foundation of the 40 hour work week which they say is the "backbone" of the middle class.

From the letter:

"When you and the President sought our support for the Affordable Care Act (ACA), you pledged that if we liked the health plans we have now, we could keep them. Sadly, that promise is under threat. Right now, unless you and the Obama Administration enact an equitable fix, the ACA will shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class."

Labor got what they wanted, and the rest of us got thrown under the bus. Pardon me for not rememebering the exact words but esentially, that is what they are saying in the letter.

Good, you're actually using real quotes.

 dogma wrote:
Good, you're actually using real quotes.

I bow in gratitude to your applause, but I want my Orson Welles slow clap, dammit!

 dogma wrote:

 easysauce wrote:

when dems are in power, and dems pass a law, that the GOP unanimously works against, and goes so far as the shut down the government over, then its not their law.

Blaming the GOP for a law made by the other side is a cop out, give credit where credit is due.

I'm not blaming the GOP for passing the law, I am blaming the GOP for contributing to the nature of the law.

right, you are taking a democrat written, drafted, created, law, that the GOP wanted nothing to do with, and didnt actually write, and didnt actually have much of a say it.... and blaming the GOP for the CONTENT of a democrat law.

still a total cop out, and still, totally untrue. the content of a democrat law is 100% on the democrats, blaming the GOP for a democrat law is the height of this deflection blame game that seems to be the DEM's modis opperandi now.

and when congress writes itself out of the law, you should be damn well able to google that yourself, reid, and other big names are in the list of people saying "this law is GREAT for you!... just not for me"

"Congress already is taking heat from the public over the sequester and other issues. By writing themselves and exemption to Obamacare, Politico noted that lawmakers could be seen as holding themselves to a different standard than the people who elected them."

yet another article about congress exemption from obamacare, and how OPM and obama "swooped in" (likely illegal, definitely immoral) and made the congress "version" of OB care way better, so that they dont have the same crappy health care as the rest of the people, but still get to lie and say they have the same plans.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/358550/congresss-exemption-obamacare-john-fund

even a cursory search shows the people making the law are the ones trying to get out of it..... are you just trying to not notice the hypocrisy?

 dogma wrote:
Good, you're actually using real quotes.

If you're going to be pedantic about semantics, the correct (plural form of the) noun is "quotations".

 Jihadin wrote:
Hold one. I do not view Dogma the same as I view..Brass Scorpian....and....WTH is his name in Raliegh, NC,,,that view the Dem who can do no wrong.

First of all, it's "Raleigh".
Second of all, I don't believe that "Dems can do no wrong". I do however believe that the Republicans in the state of North Carolina are absolutely nothing but party stooges. Pat McCrory(the sitting Republican governor) was talking in a local interview about how he was going to sign the Voter ID law as "it was a well written piece of legislation" before the damn thing was even being written.
I'm sure you can dig around and find some notable instance of Democrats doing something similar. I really do not care if you can find such a thing(although I would be interested to see it).
The point is that for something which has been bandied about constantly as a "measure done to prevent a well documented problem in the state of North Carolina", to put forward no supporting evidence beyond a Republican/Tea Party organization which refuses to actually disclose their research methods and to have such a brilliant moment like bragging about how well written the law is before the law is even written.

I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

Not really. The whole point being made is about the hypocrisy. It is such a great thing that RomneyCare does great--but when a similar program is being called ObamaCare? NOPE! Can't have that!

 Kanluwen wrote:

I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

Not really. The whole point being made is about the hypocrisy. It is such a great thing that RomneyCare does great--but when a similar program is being called ObamaCare? NOPE! Can't have that!

And yet Romneycare has not experienced the catastrophic failure that Obamacare has. In fact, detractors aside, you can even argue that Romneycare is working as intended. Can you honestly say Obamacare is working as we were told it was intended?

 Breotan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

Not really. The whole point being made is about the hypocrisy. It is such a great thing that RomneyCare does great--but when a similar program is being called ObamaCare? NOPE! Can't have that!

And yet Romneycare has not experienced the catastrophic failure that Obamacare has. In fact, detractors aside, you can even argue that Romneycare is working as intended. Can you honestly say Obamacare is working as we were told it was intended?

Of course not. But let's not pretend that Obamacare should have been done solely at the federal level without the involvement of the states into ensuring that things worked.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

Not really. The whole point being made is about the hypocrisy. It is such a great thing that RomneyCare does great--but when a similar program is being called ObamaCare? NOPE! Can't have that!

And yet Romneycare has not experienced the catastrophic failure that Obamacare has. In fact, detractors aside, you can even argue that Romneycare is working as intended. Can you honestly say Obamacare is working as we were told it was intended?

Of course not. But let's not pretend that Obamacare should have been done solely at the federal level without the involvement of the states into ensuring that things worked.

Um... wat?

The underlining issues is more than just the websites Kan. It's a deeply flawed lawed and would still be flawed had even all states participated in the exchange.

 whembly wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

Not really. The whole point being made is about the hypocrisy. It is such a great thing that RomneyCare does great--but when a similar program is being called ObamaCare? NOPE! Can't have that!

And yet Romneycare has not experienced the catastrophic failure that Obamacare has. In fact, detractors aside, you can even argue that Romneycare is working as intended. Can you honestly say Obamacare is working as we were told it was intended?

Of course not. But let's not pretend that Obamacare should have been done solely at the federal level without the involvement of the states into ensuring that things worked.

Um... wat?

The underlining issues is more than just the websites Kan. It's a deeply flawed law and would still be flawed had even all states participated in the exchange.

Sorry, where did I say "the website"?

I didn't say "the website" anywhere now did I? Correct me if I am wrong however, were there not other measures of help available to states for participation in the exchanges?

 -Shrike- wrote:

 dogma wrote:
Good, you're actually using real quotes.

If you're going to be pedantic about semantics, the correct (plural form of the) noun is "quotations".

The plural form of the word "quotation" is indeed "quotations" but, as many have recognized that "quote" and "quotation" can be used interchangeably (to some degree), there is no issue with my usage of the word "quotes"

Also, my objection was not over semantics, but attribution. There is a damning quote from the Union Letter which Relapse could have used:

Right now, unless you and the Obama Administration enact an equitable fix, the ACA will shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 whembly wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Breotan wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

I do believe that the people are saying that the Republicans that went for ACA are confused with RomneyCare that is going on in Mass. That was designed for just that state.

Not really. The whole point being made is about the hypocrisy. It is such a great thing that RomneyCare does great--but when a similar program is being called ObamaCare? NOPE! Can't have that!

And yet Romneycare has not experienced the catastrophic failure that Obamacare has. In fact, detractors aside, you can even argue that Romneycare is working as intended. Can you honestly say Obamacare is working as we were told it was intended?

Of course not. But let's not pretend that Obamacare should have been done solely at the federal level without the involvement of the states into ensuring that things worked.

Um... wat?

The underlining issues is more than just the websites Kan. It's a deeply flawed law and would still be flawed had even all states participated in the exchange.

Sorry, where did I say "the website"?
I didn't say "the website" anywhere now did I?

You didn't... but, that is what's dominating the news cycle.

Correct me if I am wrong however, were there not other measures of help available to states for participation in the exchanges?

Nope... the HHS were horrible in defining the regulations need for these implementation. Therefore, many states had to "guess", which compounded the implementation issues.

 easysauce wrote:

right, you are taking a democrat written, drafted, created, law, that the GOP wanted nothing to do with, and didnt actually write, and didnt actually have much of a say it.... and blaming the GOP for the CONTENT of a democrat law.

still a total cop out, and still, totally untrue. the content of a democrat law is 100% on the democrats, blaming the GOP for a democrat law is the height of this deflection blame game that seems to be the DEM's modis opperandi now.

It isn't a cop-out. The Democrats should receive the majority of blame/credit for the passage of PPACA, but the GOP cannot entirely wash their hands of it either. If you did not gather that from my post, then I am at fault.

 easysauce wrote:

even a cursory search shows the people making the law are the ones trying to get out of it..... are you just trying to not notice the hypocrisy?

Ok, name those people.

You type something Kan?

 dogma wrote:


Also, my objection was not over semantics, but attribution. There is a damning quote from the Union Letter which Relapse could have used:

Right now, unless you and the Obama Administration enact an equitable fix, the ACA will shatter not only our hard-earned health benefits, but destroy the foundation of the 40 hour work week that is the backbone of the American middle class.

So what....you're fact checking and confirming? On an Internet forum?

Man, I know I can get ridiculous sometimes, but you, sir, take the cake.