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 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

How does needing to have an id constitute an unnecessary or heavy burden.

I like how you sum up your position -- the government can do whatever it wants and as long as you are not personally put out by it that's fine.

Not what I said, nobody is put out by it. If getting an ID is such a burden to you, them I'm sure registering and voting must be astronomically difficult!

Oh and I assure you, who is allowed and not allowed to vote is certainly a real issue.

Oh it absolutely is. I never said it wasn't. And next time the Repubs try to get some other voter issue through the dems can say that they approved the ID bill that cost nothing to implement and guarantees people are who they say they are, what more do you want good sirs? Can we move on to something that matter?

 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

What burden?

If you're talking about things like in NC about no early voting or assistance in registry in HS... then, yeah you'd have a point.

But flashing an ID? Ludacris.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

How does needing to have an id constitute an unnecessary or heavy burden.

I like how you sum up your position -- the government can do whatever it wants and as long as you are not personally put out by it that's fine.

Not what I said, nobody is put out by it. If getting an ID is such a burden to you, them I'm sure registering and voting must be astronomically difficult!

I tell you what.

You tell me how incredibly easy it was for me to get my ID and show to me that being poor would not have prevented me from getting it unless I was just lazy, and I will believe you.

I'm sure you already know everything I had to do in order to get it, or you wouldn't insist that it wasn't a burden or would have been an even bigger burden if I was poor.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 whembly wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

What burden?

If you're talking about things like in NC about no early voting or assistance in registry in HS... then, yeah you'd have a point.

But flashing an ID? Ludacris.

It's getting the fething ID.

It's been explained to you in particular over and over again. If you want to play ignorant about it, then be my guest.

I tell you what.

You tell me how incredibly easy it was for me to get my ID and show to me that being poor would not have prevented me from getting it unless I was just lazy, and I will believe you.

I'm sure you already know everything I had to do in order to get it, or you wouldn't insist that it wasn't a burden or would have been an even bigger burden if I was poor.

Oh why don't you tell me of your story of whooo and how monumentally difficult it was for you to get an ID. By the way it sounds like you got one...so it wasn't impossible or too difficult for you.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

I tell you what.

You tell me how incredibly easy it was for me to get my ID and show to me that being poor would not have prevented me from getting it unless I was just lazy, and I will believe you.

I'm sure you already know everything I had to do in order to get it, or you wouldn't insist that it wasn't a burden or would have been an even bigger burden if I was poor.

Oh why don't you tell me of your story of whooo and how monumentally difficult it was for you to get an ID. By the way it sounds like you got one...so it wasn't impossible or too difficult for you.

Nope, you tell me. You already said that the only way I would have been a burden was if I was lazy. So since you know how easy or hard it is for everybody to get an ID you should be able to tell me how easy it was for me and how a poor person would not have had any problems.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

How does needing to have an id constitute an unnecessary or heavy burden.

Because maybe, just maybe, it isn't just a case of going to your neighbourhood ID shop and going "Hey, I'd like one of those free IDs please".

People may have to go to a specific government building to sort out the process, on a certain day, and if they have work that day, tough. They can't get that ID.

Maybe they can go during the week? I'm sure their manager won't mind them missing the entire day to travel however many miles to get there, via public transport because they don't have a car.
Obviously there is no chance of their manager not giving them the time off, but maybe they can't afford to miss that shift, because they get paid by the hour, and missing out on $50 for a days work might mean the difference between them being able to eat or not.

But sure, it's easy to get an ID.

 Goliath wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

How does needing to have an id constitute an unnecessary or heavy burden.

Because maybe, just maybe, it isn't just a case of going to your neighbourhood ID shop and going "Hey, I'd like one of those free IDs please".

People may have to go to a specific government building to sort out the process, on a certain day, and if they have work that day, tough. They can't get that ID.

Maybe they can go during the week? I'm sure their manager won't mind them missing the entire day to travel however many miles to get there, via public transport because they don't have a car.
Obviously there is no chance of their manager not giving them the time off, but maybe they can't afford to miss that shift, because they get paid by the hour, and missing out on $50 for a days work might mean the difference between them being able to eat or not.

But sure, it's easy to get an ID.

And maybe you need to cross vast oceans to get it and maybe you have to do complex euclidean equations to get it and maybe, but, but, but.... Maybe you just have to go to the DMV. Maybe if you are so poor that you are on government assistance you can get the ID there. Oh wait you don't even have to go to an office anymore, these guys that want to make your life so hard will actually direct deposit the amount in your bank or mail you a check......BOTH OF WHICH YOU NEED AN ID FOR ANYWAY!

I love the super exceptional and hypothetical excuses.

Really. Um I have an ID, in fact I have about 7 drivers licenses from 4 different states sitting in my desk, My 2 year old daughter has ID and my foreign born wife has ID. But maybe I'm special,l So tell me how hard it is to get an ID. I would love to hear how it is an odyssey!

 Frazzled wrote:
I criticize government intrusion but oppose the ultrasound legislation as being both expensive and stupid.
I also want voter id and other protections on suffrage put into place. Our voting system is declining in its veracity, and with multimillion illegal alines, its ripe for corruption.

To repeat my question, would you support a government initiative to ensure all registered voters have sufficient ID in order to vote?

 sebster wrote:

 Frazzled wrote:
I criticize government intrusion but oppose the ultrasound legislation as being both expensive and stupid.
I also want voter id and other protections on suffrage put into place. Our voting system is declining in its veracity, and with multimillion illegal alines, its ripe for corruption.

To repeat my question, would you support a government initiative to ensure all registered voters have sufficient ID in order to vote?

Make sure they have sufficient ID or access to sufficient ID? I don't think we need to pick people up at their houses and hold their hands through the process.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 Goliath wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 d-usa wrote:
Except it causes a burden.

But you have all the answers, and everybody else is lazy, so why bother even dealing with you.

How does needing to have an id constitute an unnecessary or heavy burden.

Because maybe, just maybe, it isn't just a case of going to your neighbourhood ID shop and going "Hey, I'd like one of those free IDs please".

People may have to go to a specific government building to sort out the process, on a certain day, and if they have work that day, tough. They can't get that ID.

Maybe they can go during the week? I'm sure their manager won't mind them missing the entire day to travel however many miles to get there, via public transport because they don't have a car.
Obviously there is no chance of their manager not giving them the time off, but maybe they can't afford to miss that shift, because they get paid by the hour, and missing out on $50 for a days work might mean the difference between them being able to eat or not.

But sure, it's easy to get an ID.

And maybe you need to cross vast oceans to get it and maybe you have to do complex euclidean equations to get it and maybe, but, but, but.... Maybe you just have to go to the DMV. Maybe if you are so poor that you are on government assistance you can get the ID there. Oh wait you don't even have to go to an office anymore, these guys that want to make your life so hard will actually direct deposit the amount in your bank or mail you a check......BOTH OF WHICH YOU NEED AN ID FOR ANYWAY!

I love the super exceptional and hypothetical excuses.

Really. Um I have an ID, in fact I have about 7 drivers licenses from 4 different states sitting in my desk, My 2 year old daughter has ID and my foreign born wife has ID. But maybe I'm special,l So tell me how hard it is to get an ID. I would love to hear how it is an odyssey!

So are you going to tell my story of what I had to do to get mine, or are you going to keep on pretending that you know how easy it is for everybody?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
Meanwhile, I am sure that the DMV will accept my hand-written note saying "I'm d-usa, I can haz ID please?"...

This thread has seriously degraded my already fairly tenuous belief that useful discourse can occur on these fora.

Oh no, I'm sure you have some rare once in a century Shakespearean story to share that means every bill written EVER should take your tale of misfortunate events into account! I'm sure its an epic tale that 99.9 percent of the people in America go through....but oh do enlighten me with your mythic adventure.

I've already expressed my multiple experiences with getting IDs while moving from state to state including for a 2 year old child and a foreign born wife. I'm sure my difficulty is on a level much higher than your average person. Of course I'm sure it has nothing near the breadth and depth of the story you are going to tell me. I'm sure some mythic creature ate your IDs and all of your birth-certificates and social security cards while government agents thwarted your every effort to prove your identity.

Just get on with it already.

Meanwhile, I am sure that the DMV will accept my hand-written note saying "I'm d-usa, I can haz ID please?"..

I'm sure they wont...nor should they.

If you don't know what I went through, then don't spew garbage pretending to know that it is easy for everybody to get an ID and that the only reason they wouldn't have one was because they are lazy.

I've told my story. It doesn't matter because I'm not the one in this thread pretending to know that it is easy enough for everybody except lazy people. I'm tired of repeating it everytime we get the same thread in which elitist jerks pretend that it is no problem at all for anybody to get one.

And why doesn't the DMV accept my hand-written note? You said all anybody had to do was to head on over to the DMV to pick one up. Did you make that up as well?

 d-usa wrote:
If you don't know what I went through, then don't spew garbage pretending to know that it is easy for everybody to get an ID and that the only reason they wouldn't have one was because they are lazy.

I've told my story. It doesn't matter because I'm not the one in this thread pretending to know that it is easy enough for everybody except lazy people. I'm tired of repeating it everytime we get the same thread in which elitist jerks pretend that it is no problem at all for anybody to get one.

And why doesn't the DMV accept my hand-written note? You said all anybody had to do was to head on over to the DMV to pick one up. Did you make that up as well?

That would defeat the purpose of an ID wouldn't it. I mean you do need to have some paperwork that proves who you are, which I'm sure you will come up with some rare circumstances as to why that is such a hardship for a large segment of society.

I honestly don't care what your sad Dickens like story is. I've gotten plenty of IDs so have Billions of people. If you had some freak occurrence that happened to make it difficult for you to get an ID I'm sure the government should take that lightning bolt of a story into account every time they make policy. I'm sure based on your story we should all run around with helmets because meteors might land on my head, unless you story happens less often than people get hit by meteors.....I don't want to hear it.


Actually I'll be fair about it. The voter fraud stat was something like 138 counts in 5.6 million votes. If your situation happens to 139 out of every 5.6 million people....then I'll care about your story.

135 cases of fraud occurred out of 5.6 million ballots cast in 2012).

Sorry make that 136 out of 5.6 million

So you lied twice?

Once when you said the only way anybody would have problems was if they were lazy.

And the second time when you said that all anyone had to do was to head on down to the DMV.

 d-usa wrote:
So you lied twice?

Once when you said the only way anybody would have problems was if they were lazy.

And the second time when you said that all anyone had to do was to head on down to the DMV.

I guess if you want to call that lying. Sure why not.

If you want to nit pic, then I'll rephrase it for you.

In general the only way legal voters have a problem getting an ID is if they are lazy yes.

In general all you have to do is go to the DMV.

I mean I'm sure again there are exceptions and I'm sure you will point them out to me.

HAPPY?

I'm good. Your admitting that you have a very simplistic additude that basically amounts to "just get an ID you lazy bum, the DMV has all your paperwork that you need to bring already there and ready for you" is enough.

 d-usa wrote:
I'm good. Your admitting that you have a very simplistic additude that basically amounts to "just get an ID you lazy bum, the DMV has all your paperwork that you need to bring already there and ready for you" is enough.

Yep, because in real life that is how it works for most everybody. (Well except for the DMV has your paperwork, I always have to bring my own ID to the DMV to get a new one.) As long as you can admit that we are golden!

Again its not that hard to get an ID if you really want one. I mean you had some sort of galaxy shattering event that changes the alignment of the stars and yet after all that you were able to bet an ID. So I'm sure Bob Smith who works two jobs and has no car, yet lives 200 miles form the DMV and whose paperwork sank on the titanic when his parents brought him over can get one too.

It's notoriously hard to get replacements of your birth certificate or your social security card. And it takes a considerable amount of time.

 cincydooley wrote:
It's notoriously hard to get replacements of your birth certificate or your social security card. And it takes a considerable amount of time.

Nope. Already there waiting on everyone at the DMV. They got all the paperwork there, you just gotta stop by!

 cincydooley wrote:
It's notoriously hard to get replacements of your birth certificate or your social security card. And it takes a considerable amount of time.

Its not. I've had to do it. I've had to get those documents multiple times. You want to know whats hard to get? Grade school, High school and Medical school records, births certificates, immunization, medical records and government cards not to mention letter of recomendation from former staff at the medical school who were not even there anymore..........from INDIA so that I could get my wife a green card. Yeaah, thats difficult especially in a corrupt as country like India. You know what, it was kind of important for me to get those, .....so I did. Its funny what priorities can accomplish.

No offence D-usa, but I'm pretty sure that was more of an ordeal than you had to go through or most anybody else.

They got all the paperwork there, you just gotta stop by!

When did I say that? In fact I said you always have to bring your paperwork.

 Andrew1975 wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
It's notoriously hard to get replacements of your birth certificate or your social security card. And it takes a considerable amount of time.

Its not. I've had to do it. I've had to get those documents multiple times. You want to know whats hard to get? Grade school, High school and Medical school records, births certificates, immunization, medical records and government cards not to mention letter of recomendation from former staff at the medical school who were not even there anymore..........from INDIA so that I could get my wife a green card. Yeaah, thats difficult especially in a corrupt as country like India. You know what, it was kind of important for me to get those, so you know what .....I did.

No offence D-usa, but I'm pretty sure that was more of an ordeal than you had to go through or most anybody else.

Yeah, Birth Certificates are freaking easy.

Especially if you don't live anywhere near where you were born.
Or if you don't have the means to drive there (because you are lazy).
Or if you don't have an ID, which you cannot get without the birth certificate, which you cannot get without your ID, which you cannot...you get the picture.
Or if your birth certificate does not exist anywhere on this planet. Because it became a pile of ashes during a warehouse fire after the military base where you were born shut down and every record got moved to that warehouse.
It's freaking easy to get an ID if there is zero proof that you even exist.

And I take it that if you were poor and working a job that doesn't let you take any time off and without any means of transportation you would have zero difficulty getting all your crap done, right? Unless you were lazy.

They got all the paperwork there, you just gotta stop by!

When did I say that. In fact I said you always have to bring your paperwork.

In general you said that you don't. Actually you said "in general, all somebody has to do is go to the DMV".
So it seemed like you implied that the majority of people don't have to go to other agencies to get supporting paperwork, they just show up there.

Yeah, Birth Certificates are freaking easy.

Especially if you don't live anywhere near where you were born.
Or if you don't have the means to drive there (because you are lazy).
Or if you don't have an ID, which you cannot get without the birth certificate, which you cannot get without your ID, which you cannot...you get the picture.
Or if your birth certificate does not exist anywhere on this planet. Because it became a pile of ashes during a warehouse fire after the military base where you were born shut down and every record got moved to that warehouse.
It's freaking easy to get an ID if there is zero proof that you even exist.

And I take it that if you were poor and working a job that doesn't let you take any time off and without any means of transportation you would have zero difficulty getting all your crap done, right? Unless you were lazy.

Like I said, priorities! You got it done didn't you? Are you superman or Hercules, because obviously a mear mortal would never be able to accomplish this task, right? And again Im sure there was no bizarre circumstance that put you in that situation, I mean its obviously an everyday occurrence that happens to everybody!

Or is it more likely that most people who don't have IDs don't have them for some much more mundane reason!

Oh and Zero difficulty? You know who only does things when there is zero difficulty...lazy people. I'm sorry but I must have missed Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, easy living and fairness in my version of the declaration of independence, must not be updated 2.0 version!

So it seemed like you implied that the majority of people don't have to go to other agencies to get supporting paperwork, they just show up there.

Right because that is how it works for most people. You bring your paper work to get your first ID and then from then on you don't. I renewed my license a few times by just surrendering the old one, no other paper work was needed besides what I had in my wallet.

If it was such a Olympian task to get an ID I'm pretty sure less people would have them. But seeing as an ID is basically a pre requisite to being a functioning human being in this country I'm pretty sure its not that hard...in general.

So everybody has their paperwork, it's very rate that somebody doesn't have it.

And nobody ever looses their ID, that's totally rare. Hardly ever happens to anyone.

And everyone has a job that gives them the time, the means to travel, and the financial means to do everything that you had to do to get your wife's paperwork in order.

I'm sticking with my assessment of an elitist talking out his rear, who doesn't really want to admit that gak can actually be a lot more difficult for people other than himself and who has convinced himself that there is no political attempt to feth people over and who loves to blame the victim.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Its not. I've had to do it. I've had to get those documents multiple times

I'm glad it was easy for you. When I lived in NYC, getting your birth certificate was a giant pain in the ass - You had to spend all day at the department of vital statistics, which had hours that guaranteed you also had to take a day off work.

Now you can do it online. I just ran through it again for the most current info, and the copy is $15, the Vital-Chek fee is $7.50, and it's required to be sent via UPS Air signature required, which is $15. So, for a mere $38.50, you can have your birth certificate, which of course you need to get the drivers license (with it's attendant fees as well - In IA, it's $32 but it varies depending on what you need, and there is a reduced fee ID only one for $8 - don't know the details on that).

I can't imagine a single person in this country who would have a hard time justifying spending 40 bucks so they can get to vote, and I'm sure you can't either, right?

White privilege refers to the set of societal privileges that white people are argued to benefit from beyond those commonly experienced by people of color in the same social, political, or economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc.). The term denotes both obvious and less obvious unspoken advantages that white individuals may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal. It can be compared and/or combined with the concept of male privilege.

 Ouze wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Its not. I've had to do it. I've had to get those documents multiple times

I'm glad it was easy for you. When I lived in NYC, getting your birth certificate was a giant pain in the ass - You had to spend all day at the department of vital statistics, which had hours that guaranteed you also had to take a day off work.

Now you can do it online. I just ran through it again for the most current info, and the copy is $15, the Vital-Chek fee is $7.50, and it's required to be sent via UPS Air signature required, which is $15. So, for a mere $38.50, you can have your birth certificate, which of course you need to get the drivers license (with it's attendant fees as well - In IA, it's $32 but it varies depending on what you need, and there is a reduced fee ID only one for $8 - don't know the details on that).

I can't imagine a single person in this country who would have a hard time justifying spending 40 bucks so they can get to vote, and I'm sure you can't either, right?

I'm sure that $40 included lost wages for actually going to the DMV right? It couldn't possibly cost more!

 d-usa wrote:

And nobody ever looses their ID, that's totally rare. Hardly ever happens to anyone.

And everyone has a job that gives them the time, the means to travel, and the financial means to do everything that you had to do to get your wife's paperwork in order.

I'm sticking with my assessment of an elitist talking out his rear, who doesn't really want to admit that gak can actually be a lot more difficult for people other than himself and who has convinced himself that there is no political attempt to feth people over and who loves to blame the victim.

Dude, I win. You said blame the victim. That's like goodwining.

So everybody has their paperwork, it's very rate that somebody doesn't have it.

True statement. I mean I don't know what you consider rare as, but yeah.

And everyone has a job that gives them the time, the means to travel, and the financial means to do everything that you had to do to get your wife's paperwork in order.

Absolutely not. But most people wouldn't need to do it. Most people just have to go to the DMV

there is no political attempt to feth people

Oh there are plenty of political attempts to feth people over all the time. Requiring that someone have an ID is not one of them. Agreeing to allow those to be the terms for someone to vote is a win because it gets rid of the actual attempts to feth people over by placing more stringent limits on potential voters. Then politicians can go about actual issues that matter like funding a government, the results of not getting the important work done is fething people over.

Oh and yes I'm obviously an elitist because I expect people to have an ID! You are obviously a member of the 1% if you have a duh duh duh ......passport.

I can't imagine a single person in this country who would have a hard time justifying spending 40 bucks so they can get to vote, and I'm sure you can't either, right?

If voting is important to you, $40 is nothing. Especially in NYC what is that Lunch money?

White privilege refers to the set of societal privileges that white people are argued to benefit from beyond those commonly experienced by people of color in the same social, political, or economic spaces (nation, community, workplace, income, etc.). The term denotes both obvious and less obvious unspoken advantages that white individuals may not recognize they have, which distinguishes it from overt bias or prejudice. These include cultural affirmations of one's own worth; presumed greater social status; and freedom to move, buy, work, play, and speak freely. The concept of white privilege also implies the right to assume the universality of one's own experiences, marking others as different or exceptional while perceiving oneself as normal. It can be compared and/or combined with the concept of male privilege.

YES THATS IT! Because only rich white males have IDs right?

I'm sure that $40 included lost wages for actually going to the DMV right? It couldn't possibly cost more!

Look if the only reason you are getting you vital info and ID is to vote....You are doing it wrong.

Keep making up excuses guys. Seriously how many people in the US don't have IDs? You make it sound like there are these giant pockets of wasteland where people have no access to IDs or paperwork......ewww THE FORBIDDEN ZONE! If you do not have an ID in this country for the most part you can't function. I've lived in the ghetto, look up 55th and Euclid in Cleveland, people there had IDs. Hell some of them even had....drivers licenses.

It's actually sort of fascinating to see someone so clearly incapable of imagining the plight and circumstances of someone else might not be the same as their own.

A passport costs $55. If you are making minimum wage, that means you have to work 7.5 hours - an entire day - to be able to afford it.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
If voting is important to you, $40 is nothing.

Congratulations. You have just justified a poll tax. Suddenly, the derp throttle has gone forward considerably.

Congratulations. You have just justified a poll tax. Suddenly, the derp throttle has gone forward considerably.

No I didn't, don't put words in my mouth or jump to derpy conclusions.

It's actually sort of fascinating to see someone so clearly incapable of imagining the plight and circumstances of someone else might not be the same as their own.

A passport costs $55. If you are making minimum wage, that means you have to work 7.5 hours - an entire day - to be able to afford it.

Exactly, which is why I said anybody with one is obviously part of the proletariat right? Nowhere did I say people need to have passports, in fact we have been talking about free voter ID cards, you just have to be motivated enough to get one.