Majority of House now wants clean funding bill while Cruz castigated by Senate Republicans

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**Maddermax**

From Politico:

Ted Cruz blasted by angry GOP colleagues

Spoiler:

Ted Cruz faced a barrage of hostile questions Wednesday from angry GOP senators, who lashed the Texas tea party freshman for helping prompt a government shutdown crisis without a strategy to end it.

At a closed-door lunch meeting in the Senate’s Mansfield Room, Republican after Republican pressed Cruz to explain how he would propose to end the bitter budget impasse with Democrats, according to senators who attended the meeting. A defensive Cruz had no clear plan to force an end to the shutdown — or explain how he would defund Obamacare, as he has demanded all along, sources said.

Things got particularly heated when Cruz was asked point-blank if he would renounce attacks waged on GOP senators by the Senate Conservatives Fund, an outside group that has aligned itself closely with the Texas senator.

Cruz’s response: “I will not,” according to an attendee.

.......
“It was very evident to everyone in the room that Cruz doesn’t have a strategy – he never had a strategy, and could never answer a question about what the end-game was,” said one senator who attended the meeting. “I just wish the 35 House members that have bought the snake oil that was sold could witness what was witnessed today at lunch.
........

Spoiler:

At the Wednesday lunch, Cruz was asked what he would have done had GOP senators united to filibuster the House bill.

“He kept trying to change the subject because he never could answer the question,” the senator said. “It’s pretty evident it’s never been about a strategy – it’s been about him. That’s unfortunate. I think he’s done our country a major disservice. I think he’s done Republicans a major disservice.”

In the run-up to the Tuesday deadline to fund the government, Cruz continued to press the anti-Obamcare fight, lobbying House conservatives to stiffen Boehner’s spine despite the prospects of a government shutdown. The speaker responded with bill after bill taking aim at pieces of the health care law. But Senate Democrats rejected each one up until the final hours of Monday night, prompting the first government shutdown since 1996.

Many Senate Republicans publicly and privately scoffed at the Cruz tactics, arguing that he was making a false and politically damaging promise that he could use the funding bill to gut Obamacare — since the law moved forward anyway on Tuesday despite the government shutdown. They argued President Barack Obama would never agree to gut his signature law. And they took great exception by Cruz and his allies in outside groups like the Senate Conservatives Fund to portray them as weak on Obamcare even though the party has furiously battled the law since the beginning of the president’s term in office.

“The entire effort has been totally disingenuous,” the senator said.

A spokesman for SCF rejected the criticism.

“If these senators had pledged to oppose funding for Obamacare, we wouldn’t have had to run ads against them,” said Executive Director Matt Hoskins. “They only have themselves to blame.”

Meanwhile in the House:
From Huffington Post:

House Now Has The Votes To End Government Shutdown, But It Won't

Spoiler:

WASHINGTON -- Less than two days after the government shut down, there are now more than 17 Republicans who say they're ready to pass a bill to fund the government with no strings attached, giving the House the votes it needs to pass a clean funding bill.

All 200 Democrats would need to stick together and team up with those Republicans to pass the bill, but House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) would have to be willing to put it to a vote, which so far he has given no indication he will do. But if he does, the votes appear to be there. The Senate would pass the bill in no time, sending it to be signed by President Barack Obama and ending the shutdown.

Read the tally here to see who those House Republicans are, and why they say they're done with trying to force through provisions on Obamacare before agreeing to keep the government running.

And From Forbes:

17 House Republicans Ready To Jump Ship And Re-Open Government -- Boehner Not Budging

Spoiler:

As the second day of the government shutdown nears its end, it now appears that 17 House Republicans have had enough and are prepared to vote for a ‘clean’ resolution that would get things up and running once again—all without the GOP challenges to Obamacare.

In the event the 200 House Democrats hold together to vote for the clean bill sent back to the House from the Senate, the 17 GOPers would be enough to pass the legislation and get the doors to the government open for business once again.

UPDATE 1: The number is now 18. Rep. Bill Young of Florida now says that he is prepared to vote for a clean bill.

UPDATE 2: We are up to 19 and, possibly 20 as Rep. Mario Diaz-Balart, Republican of Florida, has told the Miami Herald that he would vote for a clean bill if it is put on the floor. There are also indications that Illinois Rep. Rodney Davis is ready to join those who would jump ship based on what one of his aides told a constituent. However, his office is not prepared to confirm it as of yet, saying they would not speculate on what he might or might not do.
.....

They also have a list of the Republican house members who would vote for a clean bill.

So, seems like they're cracking. Any bets on how long they keep the government shut down? I'm thinking at least a week anyway, just so republicans can play to their base for a while, as cracking completely too early would create a huge backlash from them.

**Mr. Burning**

I just don't get the republican position on Obamacare.

They were flat out against all of it when it first came up.

Tried to amend it and fought an election based partly on defending and stopping "the evilz".

They have tried to force a rethink and a delay even though the courts have passed the act good to go as it were

And now the shutdown has come about because they didn't want a clean bill going through.

Just what is the republican message on the act?

**Barfolomew**

Mr. Burning wrote:

Just what is the republican message on the act?

The ultimate Republican position is that they would repeal Obamacare in full. However, due to the Democrat controlled Senate they won't be able to pass that bill. Even if they did control the Senate, they don't have the 2/3 majority in either house to override Obama's veto. Due to this, the Republicans can't really do anything about Obamacare directly because it has already passed.

This means they need to attach riders to important legislation to delay or defund portions of the law so that is basically non-functional. Obama has already decided he is going to delay the corporate mandate (even though the law says it goes into affect in 2014). The Republicans are currently trying to delay the individual mandate, but Obama doesn't want to do that as it basically delays his whole law for a year.

**Ouze**

I'm not going to buy that they have enough votes to pass a clean CR, and aren't, just because. They know it hurts them way worse than it hurts the Democrats. I can't believe Boehner wants to prolong this a minute longer than he has to.

The only possibility is that, when you have 10% approval rating, if you can chop off 5% off both you and the guy with a 50% rating, that's... kind of a victory, I guess. But that's just stupid and I don't see that being the situation, especially when Obama does not have to get re-elected and most of these guys are looking at an election in about a year.

My guess, they don't have the votes but are saying they do to pressure the Ted Cruz Party to come to the table.

**Seaward**

I believe it. The candidates in favor of prolonging this aren't going to not get reelected because they were in favor of prolonging it. They can have 100% of the country outside their district hate their guts, for all they care.

**Frazzled**

Ouze wrote:
I'm not going to buy that they have enough votes to pass a clean CR, and aren't, just because. They know it hurts them way worse than it hurts the Democrats. I can't believe Boehner wants to prolong this a minute longer than he has to.

The only possibility is that, when you have 10% approval rating, if you can chop off 5% off both you and the guy with a 50% rating, that's... kind of a victory, I guess. But that's just stupid and I don't see that being the situation, especially when Obama does not have to get re-elected and most of these guys are looking at an election in about a year.

My guess, they don't have the votes but are saying they do to pressure the Ted Cruz Party to come to the table.

I could see that. Boehner doesn't want to be kicked out as speaker. The Democrats aren't going to vote for him as speaker.

The one positive is if they could wrap both into a piece of legislation extending the CR and the debt cap.

A nice follow on piece of legislation would adjust "full time" back to 37.5 hours and remove the tax on medical products. The ACA is a monster, and like such,should probably have several years of modifying legislation to improve it to a more efficient system (just like Canada's...)

Would it be wrong to merge the USA and Canada, keep the Canadian government but the US Bill of RIghts (and of course open a nice chain of fusion restaurants featuring Tex Mex and Maple syrup related cuisine)?

**Maddermax**

Ouze wrote:
I'm not going to buy that they have enough votes to pass a clean CR, and aren't, just because. They know it hurts them way worse than it hurts the Democrats. I can't believe Boehner wants to prolong this a minute longer than he has to.

The only possibility is that, when you have 10% approval rating, if you can chop off 5% off both you and the guy with a 50% rating, that's... kind of a victory, I guess. But that's just stupid and I don't see that being the situation, especially when Obama does not have to get re-elected and most of these guys are looking at an election in about a year.

My guess, they don't have the votes but are saying they do to pressure the Ted Cruz Party to come to the table.

Boehner is completely under the control of the Tea Party fringe because he's vulnerable to losing his speakership (to Cantor or someone similar), and he's very vulnerable to far right challengers in his 100% safe republican seat. And half of his Caucus are either Tea Party people or can be strong armed by Tea Party members and outside groups because of their own vulnerabilities.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/10/01/why-boehner-doesnt-just-ditch-the-right/

So, even if there are the votes to pass it, Boehner will never bring it to the floor. But Boehner has all the power as speaker to decide which votes get called, unless he's deposed, which would cause a Republican civil war, which the moderate republicans in favor of a clean resolution don't want either, because they'd either be beholden to the Tea Party crowd and get someone worse, or they'd be beholden to the Democrats.

Honestly, I'm thinking either Boehner will crack eventually, or possibly the bill that strips Obamacare will be voted down in the house by the moderates (at which point, he'll have political cover to introduce a clean bill, while blaming the moderates and saving his own hide).

**Spacemanvic**

Boner is NOT under Tea Party control, he is a progressive Repubeican. Same with John McLaim and Linda Graham.

**cincydooley**

Frazzled wrote:

Would it be wrong to merge the USA and Canada, keep the Canadian government but the US Bill of RIghts (and of course open a nice chain of fusion restaurants featuring Tex Mex and Maple syrup related cuisine)?

I'd vote for that latter part. How do we make that happen?

**Frazzled**

Sign this letter of Marque right here...

Oh wait, first we kill all the lawyers.

**Experiment 626**

Frazzled wrote:
Sign this letter of Marque right here...

Oh wait, first we kill all the lawyers.

Don't forget to add the Fiberals, NDP & Green Party to that list...

We can keep the Bloc-heads around for sheer entertainment value however! (might also want to do away with the Tea Party and just merge our fiscal Conservatives with your moderate Republicans, and keep the Democrats for the most part...)

Oh, and we keep O Canada because it really pisses off Russia having to listen to it when we kick their arse on the ice, but maybe replace the stars on your flag with mini-maple leafs? (and then add an additional one for every year that the Make-ya-Laughs yet again fail to win a Stanley Cup!

)

Then we can join our combined military might, re-build the Avro Arrow program and conquer the world!

**daedalus**

I... oh.

Castigated.

**Crazy_Carnifex**

Frazzled wrote:

Would it be wrong to merge the USA and Canada, keep the Canadian government but the US Bill of RIghts (and of course open a nice chain of fusion restaurants featuring Tex Mex and Maple syrup related cuisine)?

Last time the US tried to merge with Canada, someone burned the Whitehouse down. Incidentally, I really like the new one. It's very nice.

**Frazzled**

Experiment 626 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Sign this letter of Marque right here...

Oh wait, first we kill all the lawyers.

Don't forget to add the Fiberals, NDP & Green Party to that list...

We can keep the Bloc-heads around for sheer entertainment value however! (might also want to do away with the Tea Party and just merge our fiscal Conservatives with your moderate Republicans, and keep the Democrats for the most part...)

Oh, and we keep O Canada because it really pisses off Russia having to listen to it when we kick their arse on the ice, but maybe replace the stars on your flag with mini-maple leafs? (and then add an additional one for every year that the Make-ya-Laughs yet again fail to win a Stanley Cup!)

Then we can join our combined military might, re-build the Avro Arrow program and conquer the world!

I am down with a red white and blue flag with maple leaves. How many provinces are there?

PLus your dollars are cool. Dude your money is like plastic with a hole in the $20!

**KalashnikovMarine**

I'm up for burning the White House down again if we merge with Canada. Followed by the pillaging of Quebec and the parceling out of it's lands to people who speak English instead of that lame attempt at French that the actual French despise.

**Experiment 626**

Frazzled wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Sign this letter of Marque right here...

Oh wait, first we kill all the lawyers.

Don't forget to add the Fiberals, NDP & Green Party to that list...

We can keep the Bloc-heads around for sheer entertainment value however! (might also want to do away with the Tea Party and just merge our fiscal Conservatives with your moderate Republicans, and keep the Democrats for the most part...)

Oh, and we keep O Canada because it really pisses off Russia having to listen to it when we kick their arse on the ice, but maybe replace the stars on your flag with mini-maple leafs? (and then add an additional one for every year that the Make-ya-Laughs yet again fail to win a Stanley Cup!)

Then we can join our combined military might, re-build the Avro Arrow program and conquer the world!

I am down with a red white and blue flag with maple leaves. How many provinces are there?

PLus your dollars are cool. Dude your money is like plastic with a hole in the $20!

10 Provinces, and we recently cut the big Territory in half so we have 3 of those now.

Our new bills are a plastic polymer actually, so you can light them on fire and melt them into your enemy's flesh! You could torture someone by making them the richest dead guy, burning in agony while covered in like $10k of flaming wealth!

(it's how I'd vote to get rid of useless, money-wasting politicians - burn them on a pyre of taxpayer cash, it's at least a more worthwhile 'investment' of wasted tax dollars...)

**juraigamer**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'm up for burning the White House down again if we merge with Canada.

Lots of nice space up in canada, as global warming continues, so does the value of that land. Might as well get it cheap now!

**Dr. What**

KalashnikovMarine wrote:
I'm up for burning the White House down again if we merge with Canada. Followed by the pillaging of Quebec and the parceling out of it's lands to people who speak English instead of that lame attempt at French that the actual French despise.

We've suggested war with Canada before.

**d-usa**

Do we need this many partisan threads on the same subject?

We got the "Reid is an ass and some negotiate" thread.
We got the "The Tea Party is happy" thread
We got this "moderates want to move on" thread.

Can't we all talk past each other in a single thread instead?

**Alfndrate**

d-usa wrote:
Do we need this many partisan threads on the same subject?

We got the "Reid is an ass and some negotiate" thread.
We got the "The Tea Party is happy" thread
We got this "moderates want to move on" thread.

Can't we all talk past each other in a single thread instead?

I agree, also most of these new threads were started by the same person. It's like BrassScorpion has a cousin down under.

**Ouze**

Alfndrate wrote:
It's like BrassScorpion has a cousin down under.

Nah, Maddermax participates in the threads actively, as opposed to a Poop N Scoot.

**d-usa**

So more like a down-under Relapse?

**feeder**

Frazzled wrote:

Would it be wrong to merge the USA and Canada, keep the Canadian government but the US Bill of RIghts (and of course open a nice chain of fusion restaurants featuring Tex Mex and Maple syrup related cuisine)?

Good lord no. No, no, no. Noooooooooooooooo thank you. No.

**Rotary**

Meanwhile working people with family's and house payments are going under. My brother in law works for the army core of engineers, apparently that is non essential. I know we need to fix things in our government but good people are hurting because of it.

**sebster**

Ouze wrote:
I'm not going to buy that they have enough votes to pass a clean CR, and aren't, just because. They know it hurts them way worse than it hurts the Democrats. I can't believe Boehner wants to prolong this a minute longer than he has to.

While it is hurting the Republicans in general polls, it isn't really causing a dip in support among the Tea Party faction. Whereas its expected that if the party were to cave, the Tea Party would call for heads.

Now, the Tea Party faction isn't massive, but they are the guys that turn up to vote in primaries, and thanks to the current make up of districts, those are the most competitive elections many Representatives will face.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spacemanvic wrote:
Boner is NOT under Tea Party control, he is a progressive Repubeican. Same with John McLaim and Linda Graham.

One's own politics don't mean gak when we're talking about who holds power over you.

Boehner could be left of Ghandi for all it matters, because the reality is that right now, in his party, he and every other Republican is afraid to piss off the Tea Party, for fear of them turning out in large numbers at a primary election and ousting them.

**whembly**

sebster wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I'm not going to buy that they have enough votes to pass a clean CR, and aren't, just because. They know it hurts them way worse than it hurts the Democrats. I can't believe Boehner wants to prolong this a minute longer than he has to.

While it is hurting the Republicans in general polls, it isn't really causing a dip in support among the Tea Party faction. Whereas its expected that if the party were to cave, the Tea Party would call for heads.

Now, the Tea Party faction isn't massive, but they are the guys that turn up to vote in primaries, and thanks to the current make up of districts, those are the most competitive elections many Representatives will face.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spacemanvic wrote:
Boner is NOT under Tea Party control, he is a progressive Repubeican. Same with John McLaim and Linda Graham.

One's own politics don't mean gak when we're talking about who holds power over you.

Boehner could be left of Ghandi for all it matters, because the reality is that right now, in his party, he and every other Republican is afraid to piss off the Tea Party, for fear of them turning out in large numbers at a primary election and ousting them.

Is this fear legitimate?

I don't see the established GOPs being primaried.

**Ouze**

whembly wrote:
I don't see the established GOPs being primaried.

Neither did Dick Lugar, I suppose.

**sebster**

whembly wrote:
Is this fear legitimate?

I don't see the established GOPs being primaried.

Plenty of established GOP candidates have already been primaried. Not that that's Boehner's main concern - he's worried about keeping his place as speaker - if other House Republicans start looking vulnerable to getting ousted by a Tea Party candidate in a primary, they'll offer up Boehner quite happily.

**Seaward**

I think a lot fewer of them are worried about Tea Party primary challenges than were in 2010 or even 2012. The Tea Party's made a lot of noise, but its influence has shrunk, and you don't hear much about all the TP candidates who tried a primary challenge but got their asses handed to them.

Everyone's pretty much got a feel for their district in this fight, and knows where their constituents stand. They're going to play accordingly.

**Steve steveson**

Frazzled wrote:
Experiment 626 wrote:
Frazzled wrote:
Sign this letter of Marque right here...

Oh wait, first we kill all the lawyers.

Don't forget to add the Fiberals, NDP & Green Party to that list...

We can keep the Bloc-heads around for sheer entertainment value however! (might also want to do away with the Tea Party and just merge our fiscal Conservatives with your moderate Republicans, and keep the Democrats for the most part...)

Oh, and we keep O Canada because it really pisses off Russia having to listen to it when we kick their arse on the ice, but maybe replace the stars on your flag with mini-maple leafs? (and then add an additional one for every year that the Make-ya-Laughs yet again fail to win a Stanley Cup!)

Then we can join our combined military might, re-build the Avro Arrow program and conquer the world!

I am down with a red white and blue flag with maple leaves. How many provinces are there?

PLus your dollars are cool. Dude your money is like plastic with a hole in the $20!

And whilst you are at it you can get rid of this president nonsense and have a proper head of state. We will even let you call the White House the White Palace and make it the queens official residence in the United Kingdom of Canmericadia.

Although, I'm not sure about the Avro Arrow... They only put two sets of wheels on:

Spoiler: