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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 16:12:38
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:
Reported.
So your assertion is that "required to roll to hit" means the outcome of the roll doesn't matter, which of course is supported by nothing RAW or FAQ, which is why I asked you to state any rules.
You've obviously not read the thread. Perhaps you should clarify first - are you making a RAW or RAI argument?
as you have made neither a RAI or RAW statement or argument based on anything in any rulebook or faq you are reported for trolling.
I am not discussing the amount of dice rolled, as you have no permission to roll more than one dice, and obviously nothing states you roll only 1 dice RAW.
However it is stated you are require to roll to hit. A very few number of powers have been given a faq which allows them to have an effect on a miss, showing that otherwise they would have no effect if not faqed.
That you can jump from since you are not given a spcefic number of dice to roll, but are required to roll to hit, to the effect automatically happening regardless of the diceroll (which no where is RAW or shown to be RAI) is interesting, and I would like for you to show why you think RAW that you can have an effect for any and all witchfire powers that are required to roll to hit, regardless of the outcome of that roll. The fact that RAW it is not spelled out how many dice you roll to hit does not = the effect happening anyways. That is stated nowhere RAW and no one in this thread or any other thread has been able to support that erroneous conclusion and fallacy of logic.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 16:17:33
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 16:14:44
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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blaktoof wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
Reported.
So your assertion is that "required to roll to hit" means the outcome of the roll doesn't matter, which of course is supported by nothing RAW or FAQ, which is why I asked you to state any rules.
You've obviously not read the thread. Perhaps you should clarify first - are you making a RAW or RAI argument?
as you have made neither a RAI or RAW statement or argument based on anything in any rulebook or faq you are reported for trolling.
You've failed to read the thread and the tenets of the forum.
I have made a RAI statement. Without me saying it's RAI, I am discussing RAW (following the tenets of YMDC).
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 18:14:37
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Regular Dakkanaut
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nosferatu1001 wrote:Stormbreed - thank you for conceding the point. There is no linkage, ruleswise, between a roll to hit and the result. I posted why, you have refused to rebut, and so your concession is accepted.
I have broken one rule - the roll to hit - as it is irrelevant(Citation Needed, PG # and area that gives you permission to ignore a MISS)
I don't need to concede anything, you are admitting to cheating, I think we can find a resolution without the need to cheat.
The rules tell me to roll to hit.
I roll, I MISS, there are no rules telling me what to do if I miss, so I can either break no rules and just accept I missed or Make up my own rules and/or BREAK a rule.
I think I'll stick with a MISS being a MISS and not need GW to address the pointless things when they have much larger rules issues to deal with.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 18:23:38
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 18:43:36
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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Poly Ranger wrote:Its like arguing whether the flying spaghetti monster prefers blue or red.
Hey, at least that one is easy to answer! What colour is the spaghetti sauce?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
rigeld2 wrote:
Do you mean it wouldn't make sense? Yeah, not a good argument for how rules work.
When discussing RAI it is actually a bloody good argument.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 18:45:07
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:07:07
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Crimson wrote:rigeld2 wrote:
Do you mean it wouldn't make sense? Yeah, not a good argument for how rules work.
When discussing RAI it is actually a bloody good argument.
Since the post I was addressing was discussing the RAW my point was valid.
It's okay though - feel free to attack me or my posts for no reason. Did you ever tell me why you were being so hostile toward me?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:18:53
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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I'm not being hostile. Stop being paranoid.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:28:56
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Then you're just being rude then. Hint - taking posts deliberately out of context and attacking them isn't polite. And that's just the most recent example.
I'm not the only one that's noticed it.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:33:57
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I am not discussing the amount of dice rolled, as you have no permission to roll more than one dice, and obviously nothing states you roll only 1 dice RAW.
However it is stated you are require to roll to hit. A very few number of powers have been given a faq which allows them to have an effect on a miss, showing that otherwise they would have no effect if not faqed.
That you can jump from since you are not given a spcefic number of dice to roll, but are required to roll to hit, to the effect automatically happening regardless of the diceroll (which no where is RAW or shown to be RAI) is interesting, and I would like for you to show why you think RAW that you can have an effect for any and all witchfire powers that are required to roll to hit, regardless of the outcome of that roll. The fact that RAW it is not spelled out how many dice you roll to hit does not = the effect happening anyways. That is stated nowhere RAW and no one in this thread or any other thread has been able to support that erroneous conclusion and fallacy of logic.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 19:34:44
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:38:38
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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blaktoof wrote:That is stated nowhere RAW and no one in this thread or any other thread has been able to support that erroneous conclusion and fallacy of logic.
Good thing that pretty much everyone has agreed that RAW witchfires without profiles are non-functional and have not said that the rules currently support skipping the To-Hit roll.
nos (and others) have argued that they believe the Intent (that's RAI) is to not roll to hit.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:41:29
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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rigeld2 wrote:blaktoof wrote:That is stated nowhere RAW and no one in this thread or any other thread has been able to support that erroneous conclusion and fallacy of logic.
Good thing that pretty much everyone has agreed that RAW witchfires without profiles are non-functional and have not said that the rules currently support skipping the To-Hit roll.
nos (and others) have argued that they believe the Intent (that's RAI) is to not roll to hit.
everyone is less than 6 people, interesting.
thats not RAI, RAI is the opposite of that given the faqs, and the RAW that require you to roll hit. If you are required to roll to do something you can say its RAI that the hit roll matters. Saying its RAI that the hit roll for something doesn't matter when RAW its written you are required to do it is a logical fallacy.
that is HYWPI, which =/= RAI, and is very far from RAW
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This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/08 19:45:39
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 19:55:05
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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blaktoof wrote:rigeld2 wrote:blaktoof wrote:That is stated nowhere RAW and no one in this thread or any other thread has been able to support that erroneous conclusion and fallacy of logic.
Good thing that pretty much everyone has agreed that RAW witchfires without profiles are non-functional and have not said that the rules currently support skipping the To-Hit roll.
nos (and others) have argued that they believe the Intent (that's RAI) is to not roll to hit.
everyone is less than 6 people, interesting.
Sorry - I thought it was obvious that I meant everyone in this thread.
thats not RAI, RAI is the opposite of that given the faqs, and the RAW that require you to roll hit. If you are required to roll to do something you can say its RAI that the hit roll matters. Saying its RAI that the hit roll for something doesn't matter when RAW its written you are required to do it is a logical fallacy.
No - RAW the power fails to work. The to hit roll can't happen. Perhaps you'd like to read the thread.
that is HYWPI, which =/= RAI, and is very far from RAW
I'd like you to re-read the words I bolded.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 20:09:08
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Thats correct RAW:
You are required to roll to hit
RAW you have no permission to roll multiple dice
RAW you are not told to roll 1 dice
=therefore you cannot pass this point logically.
However as RAW you are required to roll to hit, RAI it makes no sense to say anything other than you must pass the to hit roll for the power to have an effect. There is no point RAI to have a to hit roll if the hit roll doesnt mean anything.
Given that a very few select amount of powers that are witchfire allow an effect as expressly stated by their FAQ, you can see that RAW they are given permission to have an effect if they miss. Which RAI means that if you are not given permission by a FAQ the default is there is no effect if the hit roll is not passed.
To go from you cannot determine the dice to roll to hit RAW to the effect happening anyways is not RAW nor is it RAI in any way.
And if by Everyone you mean about 4 people in this thread, most people do not agree that the intent is not to roll to hit. Given that RAW it says you are required to roll to hit it honestly is completely without any bearing to imply that RAI that you do not roll to hit.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 20:09:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 20:14:46
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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[quote=blaktoof 555787 6129407 nullHowever as RAW you are required to roll to hit, RAI it makes no sense to say anything other than you must pass the to hit roll for the power to have an effect. There is no point RAI to have a to hit roll if the hit roll doesnt mean anything.
For witchfires with a profile it does. That's the point - for some powers it makes sense to roll to hit (Smite, Life Leech). For others the lack of proofreading when they set up Psychic Shriek, Puppet Master, et. al. means that they fail to function.
You're also aware that, according to your argument, a focused witchfire can fail the "focus" test (ie pass the psychic test but not by more than 5) but still be allocated with a Precision Shot, correct?
And that makes sense to you?
And if by Everyone you mean about 4 people in this thread, most people do not agree that the intent is not to roll to hit. Given that RAW it says you are required to roll to hit it honestly is completely without any bearing to imply that RAI that you do not roll to hit.
I did not say that everyone agreed that the intent is not to roll to hit. Please do not misquote me.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 22:10:33
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Lurking Gaunt
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Just a point of clarification from earlier that people seem to keep skimming past: Counting as firing an assault weapon by no means makes Shriek an actual assault weapon.
As an example, in golf, you may use your driver AS a putter if you so choose, but the act of doing so does not change the club INTO a putter. Likewise, by firing a psychic shooting attack, you are using the attack AS an assault weapon, but it is, at its core, still a psychic attack in the same way the driver is still a driver. The reason witchfires (and this one in particular since it is the topic of discussion on top of being such a nasty effect) are listed AS assault weapons instead of maledictions is to prevent players from abusing the ability to blast them with shriek, then move, shoot (again), and then assault. It still allows the Psyker unit to assault, but limits shenanigans in the previous sentence.
Thus, the primary purpose of the listing AS (read: in the style of) an assault weapon is to not punish the player by forcing him/her to decide whether to use his psychic ability or assault, while at the same time not overly gifting said psyker an abuseable power.
RAW for assault weapons have been beaten into the ground in this thread (does it have a profile, etc.).
The strength/AP stat in the "profile" for shriek is a replacement effect, so wounds are generated in a different manner than most (if not all) other attacks. As such, you do have a profile of sorts, despite not being printed on paper.
Thus, RAI should read similar to this:
1. It is a Psychic Attack (class:witchfire)
2. range 12"
3. damage codes (Str/AP) are a footnote with the 3d6 - LD wounding, Invul and DtW only
4. since it is an attack where RAW state there must be a to-hit roll, the minimum roll (by necessity since the dice number must yield a result) must be 1d6, and since there is no profile to grant additional d6 (and thus, the potential for additional 3d6 tests), it is ONLY 1d6 that is rolled.
It is also my personal belief that since this is a Primaris power, it shouldn't be overpowered. By removing the necessity of the to-hit roll mattering, you have essentially just created a short range, unit slaying steamroller.
Take this post as you will. I'm not here to start fights, but I am here to learn and discuss both sides with civility. Do I think there needs to be a FAQ about this? Upon seeing the arguments from both sides, probably. However, RAW and RAI grant merit to the 1d6 over the auto hit.
-Irk
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 22:12:09
"Chompa, chomp. Pachewy-chewy-chomp"
"Hive Fleet Garuda" 21-3-0
Current Campaign: Planetary conquest (where losing army gets 50pts extra next match) vs CSM (now at 600pts Nid vs 750pts CSM/Daemons)
Onerios wrote:
Also, if someone is asking for help on how to use [a unit] effectively, saying for him to put them on the shelf is not a helpful option. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 22:36:16
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Captain of the Forlorn Hope
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Irkhalu wrote:
4. since it is an attack where RAW state there must be a to-hit roll, the minimum roll (by necessity since the dice number must yield a result) must be 1d6, and since there is no profile to grant additional d6 (and thus, the potential for additional 3d6 tests), it is ONLY 1d6 that is rolled.
What page is this info on? (The one that tells you to roll 1D6 to hit with Psychic Shriek, because I can not find it).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 22:40:50
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Powerful Phoenix Lord
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DeathReaper wrote: Irkhalu wrote:
4. since it is an attack where RAW state there must be a to-hit roll, the minimum roll (by necessity since the dice number must yield a result) must be 1d6, and since there is no profile to grant additional d6 (and thus, the potential for additional 3d6 tests), it is ONLY 1d6 that is rolled.
What page is this info on? (The one that tells you to roll 1D6 to hit with Psychic Shriek, because I can not find it).
And please note, that pages 13, 50 and 51 deal with weapons, and as such cannot be referenced.
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Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 22:58:05
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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DeathReaper wrote: Irkhalu wrote:
4. since it is an attack where RAW state there must be a to-hit roll, the minimum roll (by necessity since the dice number must yield a result) must be 1d6, and since there is no profile to grant additional d6 (and thus, the potential for additional 3d6 tests), it is ONLY 1d6 that is rolled.
What page is this info on? (The one that tells you to roll 1D6 to hit with Psychic Shriek, because I can not find it).
Of course you cannot, he said this was a RAI argument at the top of the paragraph. He's just using some facts, such as the witchfire rules requesting a roll to hit, to support it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/08 22:58:22
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/08 23:31:17
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Irkhalu wrote:Just a point of clarification from earlier that people seem to keep skimming past: Counting as firing an assault weapon by no means makes Shriek an actual assault weapon.
As an example, in golf, you may use your driver AS a putter if you so choose, but the act of doing so does not change the club INTO a putter. Likewise, by firing a psychic shooting attack, you are using the attack AS an assault weapon, but it is, at its core, still a psychic attack in the same way the driver is still a driver. The reason witchfires (and this one in particular since it is the topic of discussion on top of being such a nasty effect) are listed AS assault weapons instead of maledictions is to prevent players from abusing the ability to blast them with shriek, then move, shoot (again), and then assault. It still allows the Psyker unit to assault, but limits shenanigans in the previous sentence.
First, your golf example fails. The real world doesn't operate under assumptions like "counts as" meaning the same thing as "is". 40k does.
You're also assuming that a psyker shooting in addition to using a witchfire would somehow be some amazing powerhouse.
Also, your bias is based on the idea that a Psychic Shriek that doesn't roll to hit is some amazing powerhouse ability that everyone on the tabletop should fear, when in reality it makes the power useful rather than sub-par.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 02:40:41
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Happyjew wrote: DeathReaper wrote: Irkhalu wrote:
4. since it is an attack where RAW state there must be a to-hit roll, the minimum roll (by necessity since the dice number must yield a result) must be 1d6, and since there is no profile to grant additional d6 (and thus, the potential for additional 3d6 tests), it is ONLY 1d6 that is rolled.
What page is this info on? (The one that tells you to roll 1D6 to hit with Psychic Shriek, because I can not find it).
And please note, that pages 13, 50 and 51 deal with weapons, and as such cannot be referenced.
Page 13 deals with Shooting attacks, which amazingly enough a Witchfire is (Psychic shooting attack.) But then you'll say it doesnt apply because 51 does, which does not list Witchfire or Psychic shooting attack anywhere under Assault weapons. That makes sense since they are not assault weapons, they simply have the same restrictions that firing assault weapons do.
Everyone keeps throwing RAI or HIWPI up in their discussions simply because they feel that those powers should not have to roll to hit. Perhaps they play with low BS models. Play it how you want, RAW is clearly written that a to hit roll is required.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 03:04:52
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Fragile wrote:Page 13 deals with Shooting attacks, which amazingly enough a Witchfire is (Psychic shooting attack.)
Perhaps you could quote the relevant sentence? The only one I'm seeing as far as number of shots deals with weapons, and you've been adamant that witchfires are not weapons (despite rules citations proving otherwise). Obviously you're not referring to that.
Play it how you want, RAW is clearly written that a to hit roll is required.
Demonstrably false.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 04:35:19
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Implacable Black Templar Initiate
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rigeld2 wrote:Fragile wrote:Page 13 deals with Shooting attacks, which amazingly enough a Witchfire is (Psychic shooting attack.)
Perhaps you could quote the relevant sentence? The only one I'm seeing as far as number of shots deals with weapons, and you've been adamant that witchfires are not weapons (despite rules citations proving otherwise). Obviously you're not referring to that.
BRB p69, Paragraph 2: "...witchfire is a Shooting Attack..."
rigeld2 wrote:
Play it how you want, RAW is clearly written that a to hit roll is required.
Demonstrably false.
BRB p69, Paragraph 1: "A witchfire power must roll To Hit,..."
Please demonstrate how this is false. Perhaps you could quote the relevant sentence?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 04:38:01
Subject: Re:Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Farseer Pef wrote:rigeld2 wrote:Fragile wrote:Page 13 deals with Shooting attacks, which amazingly enough a Witchfire is (Psychic shooting attack.)
Perhaps you could quote the relevant sentence? The only one I'm seeing as far as number of shots deals with weapons, and you've been adamant that witchfires are not weapons (despite rules citations proving otherwise). Obviously you're not referring to that.
BRB p69, Paragraph 2: "...witchfire is a Shooting Attack..."
Hi, please read the quote I was responding to and understand the context. That'd be great, thanks.
rigeld2 wrote:
Play it how you want, RAW is clearly written that a to hit roll is required.
Demonstrably false.
BRB p69, Paragraph 1: "A witchfire power must roll To Hit,..."
Please demonstrate how this is false. Perhaps you could quote the relevant sentence?
Sorry, I worded that poorly.
I should amend it to " RAW it's irrelevant because witchfires without a profile don't function within the rules."
There, that's better. Want me to edit my previous post?
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 05:53:20
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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my 2c, Compared with the "powers" in the BRB, the wording of Shriek reads more like a focused witchfire, than just a witchfire. So as it doesn't have a profile I think it comes down to:
Do you think GW forgot to include a profile, or did they forget the word focused.
so I would play it, no rolls to hit needed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 09:52:23
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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Stormbreed wrote:nosferatu1001 wrote:Stormbreed - thank you for conceding the point. There is no linkage, ruleswise, between a roll to hit and the result. I posted why, you have refused to rebut, and so your concession is accepted.
I have broken one rule - the roll to hit - as it is irrelevant(Citation Needed, PG # and area that gives you permission to ignore a MISS)
I don't need to concede anything, you are admitting to cheating, I think we can find a resolution without the need to cheat.
Sigh. Any reason to throw the "cheat" label out there? You do realise this discussion isnt amn actual game, therefore it isnt possible for me to cheat?
You conceded as you failed to provide proof that a requirement to roll to hit creates ANY rules-based consequence on this power. Absolutely no proof was given. Your concession is accepted, as your refusal to answer the question, or rebut in any meaningful way, means you have fallen foul of the tenets of this forum. Essentially - youre not engaging in debate, you are just arguing.
Stormbreed wrote:The rules tell me to roll to hit.
Indeed they do. HOw many dice do you roll to hit? 1? 5? 10? 30? Page 51 states the profile tells you. Found the profile yet?
Stormbreed wrote:I roll, I MISS,
Why are you only rolling singular? What RULE states you roll one dice?
Stormbreed wrote:there are no rules telling me what to do if I miss, so I can either break no rules and just accept I missed or Make up my own rules and/or BREAK a rule.
Bzzzt wrong. The rules make no connection - none - between having hit successfully and the 3D6 effect. The psychic power rules state you resolve the power if cast. Part of resolving THIS power is the 3D6 effect. Part is rolling to hit. I have permission to resovle the 3D6 because - the rules state I can. They place no importance - NONE - on the to-hit
Your error is assuming, with no written rules stating so, that there is a link between the two.
I have explained why the number of hits you get with a shooting weapon matters for the number of dice you are allowed to roll to wound - because the rules state so. Can you do the same here?
Page and paragraph. Further refusal is considered further concession that you are making a RAI argument, while failing to mark it as such, and will be reported for trolling.
Stormbreed wrote:I think I'll stick with a MISS being a MISS and not need GW to address the pointless things when they have much larger rules issues to deal with.
Your opinion is noted.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/09 10:01:05
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 09:54:35
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Courageous Space Marine Captain
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sirlynchmob wrote:my 2c, Compared with the "powers" in the BRB, the wording of Shriek reads more like a focused witchfire, than just a witchfire. So as it doesn't have a profile I think it comes down to:
Do you think GW forgot to include a profile, or did they forget the word focused.
so I would play it, no rolls to hit needed.
Focussed Witchfires need to roll to hit as well.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 12:46:59
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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That's kind of what I came to realize is that focused witchfires also needed to roll to hit. Where does it say they don't? The bit about rolling 5 or less?
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40k Armies I play:
Glory for Slaanesh!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 13:02:23
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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Spellbound wrote:That's kind of what I came to realize is that focused witchfires also needed to roll to hit. Where does it say they don't? The bit about rolling 5 or less?
No, it never says they don't.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 13:59:26
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Mekboy on Kustom Deth Kopta
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Crimson wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:my 2c, Compared with the "powers" in the BRB, the wording of Shriek reads more like a focused witchfire, than just a witchfire. So as it doesn't have a profile I think it comes down to:
Do you think GW forgot to include a profile, or did they forget the word focused.
so I would play it, no rolls to hit needed.
Focussed Witchfires need to roll to hit as well.
No it doesn't. If a witchfire has a subtype, you use the rules for that sub type instead of the general rules for witchfire. pg 69, last paragraph under witchfire.
The 5 or less bit is from when you make your psychic test.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 14:02:35
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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The Hive Mind
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sirlynchmob wrote: Crimson wrote:sirlynchmob wrote:my 2c, Compared with the "powers" in the BRB, the wording of Shriek reads more like a focused witchfire, than just a witchfire. So as it doesn't have a profile I think it comes down to:
Do you think GW forgot to include a profile, or did they forget the word focused.
so I would play it, no rolls to hit needed.
Focussed Witchfires need to roll to hit as well.
No it doesn't. If a witchfire has a subtype, you use the rules for that sub type instead of the general rules for witchfire. pg 69, last paragraph under witchfire.
The 5 or less bit is from when you make your psychic test.
now carefully read the focussed witchfire rules.
or the first page of this thread - whichever.
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My beautiful wife wrote:Trucks = Carnifex snack, Tanks = meals. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2013/10/09 14:09:08
Subject: Psychic Shriek, Witchfires and Precision Shots
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Stern Iron Priest with Thrall Bodyguard
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Eh, that's not what witchfire rules say. If it has a subtype you use those rules for resolving. It doesn't say you ignore the basic witchfire rules if it has a subtype and focussed witchfire doesn't say it hits automatically like the other subtypes do. That doesn't mean there is no roll to hit, you don't have permission to ignore it as they say it follows all the rules for witchfire with the following restriction.
The 5 or less is nothing to do with hitting, it's to do with targeting.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/09 14:30:36
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