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I'm 90% sure i know the answer to this already but i just want to be sure.
Night shields reduce the range of enemy weapons by 6", which has an effect on calculating melta-range, rapid fire, etc.
Cannot reduce the range of weapons whose maximum range is 6" or less
so my question is as follows: A krak grenade thrown against a DE vehicle with NS has range 8"-6"=2" ... but a gun with 6" range still has 6" range....? I looked through the FAQ to see if there was something saying "cannot reduce to less than 6" " or some such, but alas nothing.

Am i right about this?
sad, sad, grenades.

It still constitutes as a shooting attack so it follows the same rules of a gun. As a avid Dark Eldar player, that is how I see the rule.

Yeah like I said in OP I'm pretty sure that's how it works, just seems like it wasn't taken into account when designing night shields:
12"-->6"
8"-->2"
6"-->6"
Seems weird.
Would have expected the clause at the end to say ... Has no effect on weapons with 6" range or less, in addition, cannot reduce the range of shooting attacks below 6"
Or some such

It want taken into effect because when the rules were written, you could not throw grenades.

why are you throwing grenades at a DE vehicle? bolters can take them all down.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
why are you throwing grenades at a DE vehicle? bolters can take them all down.

Lasguns/autoguns cannot.

The rules do make any weapon of Ranges between(but not including) 12" and 6" reduced to less than 6" no matter the weapon used(ok, excepting a Barrage weapon with a max range within the variance).

Any weapon with a range of 6" or less keeps their full range.

So, yes grenades, by rule, are 2" weapons

Yeah bolters can take them down, but if I've got marines near a raider/venom I'd rather throw 1 Krak than two more bolter rounds. And if it's front/side armour on a ravager then the bolter cannot hurt it. And yes, poor little guardsmen with their laser pointers would really like to throw grenades instead.
Also yeah I know it's a 5th ed codex, that's what the FAQ/errata is for, and the DE errata doesn't have anything to say on the matter.

 Kommissar Kel wrote:

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
why are you throwing grenades at a DE vehicle? bolters can take them all down.

Lasguns/autoguns cannot.

The rules do make any weapon of Ranges between(but not including) 12" and 6" reduced to less than 6" no matter the weapon used(ok, excepting a Barrage weapon with a max range within the variance).

Any weapon with a range of 6" or less keeps their full range.

So, yes grenades, by rule, are 2" weapons

Grenades are Shooting Attacks so they still abide by the no less then 6" rule as laid out by the Night Shield ruling that no weapons range be reduced below 6".

Dastrike wrote:
Grenades are Shooting Attacks so they still abide by the no less then 6" rule as laid out by the Night Shield ruling that no weapons range be reduced below 6".

That's not what Night Shields says. It says if the weapons maximum range is 6" or less it's not reduced.
Is a grenades maximum range 6" or less?

rigeld2 wrote:

Dastrike wrote:
Grenades are Shooting Attacks so they still abide by the no less then 6" rule as laid out by the Night Shield ruling that no weapons range be reduced below 6".

That's not what Night Shields says. It says if the weapons maximum range is 6" or less it's not reduced.
Is a grenades maximum range 6" or less?

I concede on that, guess it always came down to how the rules are read. Then again I can't recall the last time a grenade was thrown at me.

I throw grenades all the time. Almost every shooting attack, in fact.

If we ever get a new round of FAQ's, I would expect to see this addressed. Depending on how you think the order of operations (and the wording of certain rules) work, then it might also come up in the case of graviton guns.

RAW: 2" range
HIWPI: 6" range.

 Happyjew wrote:
RAW: 2" range
HIWPI: 6" range.

why?

Why would I play it that way? Because, even though 6th edition has been out and there should have been at least an FAQ on this, we are trying to apply old rules to new situations. With the exception of grenades, nothing else can (currently) be knocked down to a range of <6". I see this as yet another example of GW needing to get busy with some FAQs.

Of course that being said, the only time I've played against DEldar is with Nids, so the few models that might have grenades don't use them. If I'm close enough for grenades, my MCs are too close. On the flip side, once in a while I do borrow DEldar and run them as allies with my Eldar. However, this has not come up yet.

There is no reason to pick one weapon and not another for being affected by night shields. Shooting attacks lose 6" of range... period. Not quite seeing where there is any room to argue grenades get a pass.

Like I said, it's HIWPI. Either way it doesn't affect me, because my armies do not have Krak Grenades.
Tyranids don't get grenades (except for a select few TMCs and if they're that close to DEldar I'm in a lot of trouble) and Eldar only get Plasma Grenades, which are the same strength as Shuriken weapons which have a longer range anyway.

I don't play every rule as written, my group tends to house rule stuff (such as old weapons that don't need LOS, or cover saves in ruins). It isn't wrong per se, but the important thing is I specified what RAW is and HIWPI, so people cannot try and argue that I'm wrong.

Personally I would play it as all weapons have a min 6" distance(unless, of course, the weapon had less than 6" range to begin with).

Although that is because the RAW gets goofy at under 12" max range(a 7" max range weapon has to get right up to as near the vehicle as it possibly can but a 6" max range weapon can shoot from waaaaay back there :/)

as has been said multiple times, YMDC is not for HIWPI arguments. The rules are clear about how night shields and shooting attacks interact.

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
as has been said multiple times, YMDC is not for HIWPI arguments. The rules are clear about how night shields and shooting attacks interact.

Well, according to the Tenets:

 Lorek wrote:
4. Rules as Written are not How You Would Play It. Please clearly state which one you are talking about during a rules debate, and do not argue a RAW point against a HYWPI point (or vice-versa).
- Many arguments can be avoided if this is made clear. Don't assume you know the point your opponent is arguing about.

I'm not arguing RAW. I agree whole-heartedly that RAW it is 2". In fact I even mentioned that in my first post. I then included a HIWPI, again specified. You wanted to know why I would play it differently, and I answered. I also play that models such as Wraithguard can shoot despite not having eyes, even though RAW they cannot. Does that bother you?

 SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
as has been said multiple times, YMDC is not for HIWPI arguments.

Just because it's been said multiple times, doesn't mean it's true. The explicit Tenets contradict your position, as also pointed out multiple times.

 Happyjew wrote:
I'm not arguing RAW. I agree whole-heartedly that RAW it is 2". In fact I even mentioned that in my first post. I then included a HIWPI, again specified. You wanted to know why I would play it differently, and I answered. I also play that models such as Wraithguard can shoot despite not having eyes, even though RAW they cannot.

^^ This sums up the argument for me.

There are lots of goofy things in 40k but having an 8" max range weapon reduced to less than a 6" max ranged weapon doesn't make sense to me. The RAW may be clear, but I think it would be fair to house-rule a "weapons cannot be reduced to less than 6 inches max range" clause as nwabudikemorgan mentioned.

Then again, I play IG so if a DE opponent really made a stink about it I wouldn't press the issue. YMMV.

DoW

The existence of any non-excluded weapon with range 6" < X < 12" at the time of the Dark Eldar codex would essentially disprove the suggested RaI. ...I can't think of one off-hand, though...

EDIT: Dang buggy SQL-safer...