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Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Hi all,

I will be playing first time against Eldar. I'm aware that the new codex has buffed them a lot. What unit and tactics can Space Wolves use to win?

Any hints are most welcomed.
   
Made in us
Horrific Howling Banshee




Gig Harbor, Washington

Get in close combat. That shouldn't be too hard to do. All our fancy weaponry is useless in melee. Just be sure to shoot our actual CC units (Banshees, Harlequins, Scorpions, Autarchs w/ Shard, etc.)

1000 
   
Made in hr
Screaming Shining Spear






Drop pods. It's not an easy win, but a good drop pod list can handle any army out there.
   
Made in us
Major




Fortress of Solitude

 Araenion wrote:
Drop pods. It's not an easy win, but a good drop pod list can handle any army out there.


Except interceptor-heavy tau or Hellturkey-heavy CSM.

Celesticon 2013 Warhammer 40k Tournament- Best General
Sydney August 2014 Warhammer 40k Tournament-Best General 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




And what a good drop pod army against Eldar should look like? Loganwing with Fangs and Termies? Lots of GH?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Someone in another thread claimed Logan with a bunch of PA WG toting combi-weapons was the best 'alpha strike' list. Not sure I agree, but you have to admit that's pretty darn scary.


Termies are expensive so I don't think many would make it into a good drop pod list.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/05 17:31:28


 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




From my experience, an PA WG alpha strikr gets shoot down in the following enemy phase
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




I can't catch the Eldar with the BA, so I don't know how you are proposing SW foot sloggers do it.

Rephrase: I can catch them with the two straggling survivors of a 10 man squad.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




I can field any units in the SW Codex. I was thinking about 5 Drop Pods with GH and WG TDA , Long Fangs and SwiftClaws. The problem with Eldar is the same as with their Dark cousins. Its hard to survive a turn to get to the assault.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




My BA/SM have considerably fewer problems with DE as they are often wounding on 4+, not 2+. Eldar have access to obscene amounts of S6/7 shots.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




That might be a problem. SW razorspam can outshoot DE with a bit of luck. I have no idea how to play against Eldar.
   
Made in ca
Trustworthy Shas'vre




gausus wrote:
From my experience, an PA WG alpha strikr gets shoot down in the following enemy phase


Yup, that's why you bring Logan and 5 DP full of them with Combis. Do so much damage on the first turn that there isn't enough left to hurt you too bad. Your remaining Pods can drop in later to try to take objectives or contain leakers.

Tau and Space Wolves since 5th Edition. 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




Hmm. I'm looking for an example of such list. The problem is, that with Eldar superior shooting my WG DropPod assault (1800 pts) would have about 45 models.
And that will just allow Eldar to shoot down every new wave of units i deploy.
   
Made in hr
Screaming Shining Spear






 ImotekhTheStormlord wrote:
 Araenion wrote:
Drop pods. It's not an easy win, but a good drop pod list can handle any army out there.


Except interceptor-heavy tau or Hellturkey-heavy CSM.

Well, that's why you don't go all drop pods. I honestly don’t reside in a cutthroat meta so I never faced a tripledrake or triptide list and most of my experience comes from playing against marines, not with them, but as an Eldar player I know drop pods can be a great way to limit the amazing mobility Eldar possess by the way of board control and threat overload.
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




Only for a turn. Then the surviving Eldar leave the foot sloggers in the dust and get back to scoot and shoot.
   
Made in us
Speedy Swiftclaw Biker




NJ

I find the keys against Eldar (and Tau) are target prioritization and being mindful of objectives. Don't worry so much about tabling an Eldar army... a good Eldar commander won't let that happen. Apply your power to obtaining your objectives and not letting the Xenos dirty tricks stop you from doing that.

I struggle immensely in kill point games vs Eldar, though.
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




So in other words - play the objectives, not the enemy. Still, what units can be competitive versus Eldar?
   
Made in gb
Agile Revenant Titan






Definitely play the mission! Concentrate what fire power you have on his troop choices to stop him from holding them!

It would help if you have a rough idea what he'd take? Ie serpent spam, jetbikes heavy, wraiths, or loads of aspects!

You sought to cower behind your walls, weakling? Instead, by the will of Khorne, you shall die behind them  
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




He's army is:

Farseer on Jetbike, Spear

Dire Avengers, Wave Serpent (two 5 man squads)
Guardians with gun platform, wave serpent

Wraithguards (5), Wave Serpent
Wraithlords (2)

Swooping hawks (5)
Crimson Hunter

   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

Rune Priests are my bane. Them and their stupid 24" no eldar magic ability.

At least we don't have to worry about Jaws.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Executing Exarch





The Twilight Zone

Second rune priests to shut down psykers. Living lightning is a good power against eldar, so is murderous hurricane. If your going book powers those help too.

Against wave serpents, either shoot them in the rear or assault, otherwise they are damn hard to drop.

Our assault hits first but is generally weak, where space wolves will almost always win.

Thunderwolf cav and long fangs are usually my top priorities when I am playing wolves. Drop pod lists can hurt as well but that is a bit more variable.

The most important rule of 40K-Page XVII of the 6th edition rulebook, the figure at the top right of the page. "Shake hands with your opponent and thank them for a good battle and fun experience." Then go out for a beer.
Shine bright like Iyanden  
   
Made in us
Unrelenting Rubric Terminator of Tzeentch





Hmm I think you're best bet is pods. As mentioned earlier, TWC and Long Fangs will just get dakka'd off the table too quickly by the amount of str 6/7 eldar can dish out. Also, forget Logan as he's way too much of a point sink. Take two RP for maximum psychic nerfage, 3 squads of 7-8 WG with combis (who cares if they're not scoring they will die in your opponents next shooting phase) and as many GH as you can fit.

My favorite GH loadout:

10 man, 2x special wep, Standard, MotW, Pod: 210(flamer), 215(melta), 220(plas)

Always go 10 man GH for the free special. WG in TDA w/ HF can be cool but they are costly.

Your opponent's deployment is also going to have a big effect on the outcome. If he's smart, he'll deploy in a castled formation. If he's not, he'll spread his force out across his board edge. Either way, you are going to want to concentrate your pods on one side of his force. With two wraith lords on the field, I'd go ahead and eliminate them first as they are the most vulnerable to your the WG's combi weps. If his wraithguard are equipped with d-scythes however, POP THAT TANK. You don't need to kill them on the first turn per se, just make sure their serpent is down so you can kill them in assault/your second drop. Serpents are going to be hard to crack, and the best way to do it is in assault, when he doesn't get the benefits of jink save and the serpent shield. Stuff enough krak grenades in its tail pipe and it goes boom like anything else. It's not gonna be easy any way you slice it brother, but there is hope.

Alternatively, field them as a successor chapter in a C:SM list Not being snide here, just trying find some benefit to wearing power armor these days.




"Backfield? I have no backfield." 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




It is possible to wreck Wave Serpents with one turn of LF krak shooting. But still, the bonus for exploding transports S4 hit is lost.

As for the second Rune Priest - i can put him on a bike, to as some mobility.

I have a question about TWC - they need inv save against Eldar . Yet, they get expensive that way. How can i make best of them?
   
Made in us
Dour Wolf Priest with Iron Wolf Amulet






Canada

gausus wrote:
It is possible to wreck Wave Serpents with one turn of LF krak shooting. But still, the bonus for exploding transports S4 hit is lost.

As for the second Rune Priest - i can put him on a bike, to as some mobility.

I have a question about TWC - they need inv save against Eldar . Yet, they get expensive that way. How can i make best of them?

Take 3 models per unit: 1 power fist and 2 shields. If you place right then a 3rd shield shouldn't be that big a deal/necessity. Add Wolf Lords as necessary.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/07 09:15:55


   
Made in eu
Executing Exarch






Don't take a low model count list - Eldar will kill wolf guard terminators just as easily as Grey hunters. You may as well take the extra bodies.

A full drop pod lists stands the best chance imo - podding behind wave serpants and breaking them with melta is nice. I'd almost be tempted to take Bjorn to try and ensure first turn - that way your pods drop out of the sky and the wave serpents don't get chance to get the holo-fields going. But he's also a 270pts dreadnought...

 Blacksails wrote:

Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
 
   
Made in gb
Brainy Zoanthrope





Pods will work against that list as he is woefully short on shuriken fire and scoring units so if you get close and kill the serpents he's done and won't be scoring any objectives. At that point you could win the game with a single trooper.

Against many other Eldar lists it's a death sentence. When facing massed Guardians and Dire Avengers the *last* place you want to be is within 18" and unable to charge.

Like that post?
Try: http://40kwyrmtalk.blogspot.co.uk/
It's more of the same. 
   
Made in pl
Regular Dakkanaut




In case of a Drop Pod list i'm not so eager to go first. A good player will place his WaveSerpents at the end of a table. That will deny me the possibility to attack the Serpents from the rear.
   
Made in eu
Executing Exarch






But they have no cover save until they move - its 6 of one and half a dozen of the other :/. As soon as they move it's 50/50 your shots won't do anything anyway.

 Blacksails wrote:

Its because ordinance is still a word.
However, firing ordinance at someone isn't nearly as threatening as firing ordnance at someone.
Ordinance is a local law, or bill, or other form of legislation.
Ordnance is high caliber explosives.
No 'I' in ordnance.
Don't drown the enemy in legislation, drown them in explosives.
 
   
Made in us
Powerful Phoenix Lord





Buffalo, NY

For dealing with Serpents, you want quantity over quality. The more low Strength shots you can throw, the more chances cover saves will be failed. High Strength weapons (since they fire so slowly), if not saved will be knocked down to glance 5/6ths of the time.

Greebo had spent an irritating two minutes in that box. Technically, a cat locked in a box may be alive or it may be dead. You never know until you look. In fact, the mere act of opening the box will determine the state of the cat, although in this case there were three determinate states the cat could be in: these being Alive, Dead, and Bloody Furious.
Orks always ride in single file to hide their strength and numbers.
Gozer the Gozerian, Gozer the Destructor, Volguus Zildrohar, Gozer the Traveler, and Lord of the Sebouillia 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





astro_nomicon wrote:
My favorite GH loadout:

10 man, 2x special wep, Standard, MotW, Pod: 210(flamer), 215(melta), 220(plas)


I feel that up against most opponents the CC upgrades aren't worth the points. Standard and MotW together is something like 25 points that can probably be better spent elsewhere.
   
 
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