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The only thing SM have going for them are the dev cents, bikes as grav/plasma platforms and drop podded sternguard. Fielding tac squads is not worth it, even in transports. SM transports are just too weak and the land raider too expensive.

 Pyriel- wrote:
Nah it´s ok. Very good batrep.

Although I am oh so "surprised" that those incredibly awesome tactical squads cant even kill one MC *sarcasm*
And the sad fact remains, batrep after batrep just highlites how much the new SM suck vs xenos. Playing SM in anything other then purely for-fun games is simply a waste of time.
I´ll use the years till the next codex to paint up some minis instead

While I won't say SM are the strongest codex around, basing their usefulness on this report is a mistake though.
The amount of tactical mistakes on the Ultramarines player side is astounding. Even selecting random targets would have resulted in a better target priority (firing grav guns into a 6+ armour save unit instead of a Talos?).
I love the reports though, although it is nicer when the outcome is decided by who plays better instead of because of obvious tactical errors.

DutchSage wrote:

 Pyriel- wrote:
Nah it´s ok. Very good batrep.

Although I am oh so "surprised" that those incredibly awesome tactical squads cant even kill one MC *sarcasm*
And the sad fact remains, batrep after batrep just highlites how much the new SM suck vs xenos. Playing SM in anything other then purely for-fun games is simply a waste of time.
I´ll use the years till the next codex to paint up some minis instead

While I won't say SM are the strongest codex around, basing their usefulness on this report is a mistake though.
The amount of tactical mistakes on the Ultramarines player side is astounding. Even selecting random targets would have resulted in a better target priority (firing grav guns into a 6+ armour save unit instead of a Talos?).
I love the reports though, although it is nicer when the outcome is decided by who plays better instead of because of obvious tactical errors.

Honestly it is less his poor target priority and more Skares' great tactics then you might think. Sure he could shoot 15 prescienced grav amped shots at a talos with only one wound, seems excessive right? Or he could hope that 6 venom rounds and a rapid firing plasma gun could finish it off, makes much more sense I think. It was more wild dice making it seem like he was playing poorly, lets be honest, grav guns are complete garbage against dark eldar, full stop. That unit was a huge handicap IMO having terrible range against fast targets with very poor armor. I think his biggest mistake was not investing in precision cut dice lol and his second blunder was not DS the sternguard into his back field to combat squad and grab two transports turn one. With FB it would have been a 3-2 trade and well worth it.

Honestly it is less his poor target priority and more Skares' great tactics then you might think. Sure he could shoot 15 prescienced grav amped shots at a talos with only one wound, seems excessive right? Or he could hope that 6 venom rounds and a rapid firing plasma gun could finish it off, makes much more sense I think. It was more wild dice making it seem like he was playing poorly, lets be honest, grav guns are complete garbage against dark eldar, full stop. That unit was a huge handicap IMO having terrible range against fast targets with very poor armor. I think his biggest mistake was not investing in precision cut dice lol and his second blunder was not DS the sternguard into his back field to combat squad and grab two transports turn one. With FB it would have been a 3-2 trade and well worth it.

I agree.

While I won't say SM are the strongest codex around, basing their usefulness on this report is a mistake though.
The amount of tactical mistakes on the Ultramarines player side is astounding. Even selecting random targets would have resulted in a better target priority (firing grav guns into a 6+ armour save unit instead of a Talos?).
I love the reports though, although it is nicer when the outcome is decided by who plays better instead of because of obvious tactical errors.

The talos should have died... but the marines should have held back and been more conservative in their play rathern than all gung ho and run straight to the dark eldar.

The only thing SM have going for them are the dev cents, bikes as grav/plasma platforms and drop podded sternguard. Fielding tac squads is not worth it, even in transports. SM transports are just too weak and the land raider too expensive.

The UM list that Brad was using is a very good TAC (right Reece?) army designed for tournament play. It has the tools to face off against a variety of different opponents, rhinos, are well worth it, super cheap and the mobility they add the marine army early in the game and the screening later in the game is well worth 35pts!

The rhino is far from useless for sure.

I agree, there is so much hype over giving up first blood, but lets be honest, I am more then willing to give up first blood turn one to losing a rhino then something more valued. If I don't have the initiative I always assume I am giving up first blood anyway.

I love my rhinos and razorbacks, being able to sprint up field 18 turn 1 is amazing for marines.

The benefit of transports is something lost on some.

That getting into position for a turn 2 strike is not to be ignored. And having to get through an armoured shell before the squishy insides as well. That riptide blast will wreck or blow up the rhino, but its better than having it blast the marines out of their cover on turn 1.

Of course you can always compare your ride to the transports other armies have and come to the conclusion that it sucks. Yet you have no choice but to pay the very expensive cost. No wonder Eldars and Necrons are kings of the objective game.

I almost always run rhinos. I deal with the first blood problem by dropping an Orbital bombardment on whatever vehicle I see fit. works like a charm. then my 35 point metal bawkses can go about doing their thangs.

Of course you can always compare your ride to the transports other armies have and come to the conclusion that it sucks. Yet you have no choice but to pay the very expensive cost. No wonder Eldars and Necrons are kings of the objective game.

This is true. You cant compare your stuff to what others have as the army dynamic is inherently different.

I almost always run rhinos. I deal with the first blood problem by dropping an Orbital bombardment on whatever vehicle I see fit. works like a charm. then my 35 point metal bawkses can go about doing their thangs.

True. With night fight or proper terrain you can mitigate losing First Blood as you can hide and then make sure you are close enough to get it turn 2 if needed.

While I won't say SM are the strongest codex around, basing their usefulness on this report is a mistake though.

I based that on lots and lots of batreps. Usually when there is SM vs eldar or tau it´s not even worth watching the batrep since the outcome is pretty much guaranteed. Take a look at what armies win todays tournaments for example.
Eldar and tau are disgustingly OP compared to SM and chaos.
Even the new tools given to SM to combat the cheese are outright laughable. Centurions and horrendusly overpriced in their HB version, outright useless in their melee version and only situational at best in their grav version. Good luck hunting wraithknight and riptide spam with a crap unit that only has 24 range and cant even run or deepstrike. Must be the same clueless moron that made up their rules that made the psilencers for the GK.

The UM list that Brad was using is a very good TAC (right Reece?) army designed for tournament play. It has the tools to face off against a variety of different opponents, rhinos, are well worth it, super cheap and the mobility they add the marine army early in the game and the screening later in the game is well worth 35pts!

Lets see the competitive SM list then that can on a consistent basis deal with the usual serpent cheese spam then or the tau bs!
I sure as hell still havent seen one and as far as I know neither have the latest tournaments.

The one and only SM configuration that can stand a chance, and a weak one at that, are khan bike lists. How´s that for flexibility and balance?

It´ll be like with the former LotD and jump vanguards, utter waste of points for years till now when said clueless morons finally gave them a much needed point drop in the current codex and even now they are worthless vs the new eldar and tau and it will be like this for years to come again till the new SM codex is released since by then even gw will realize something went wrong with SM never showing up in tournaments and we will get a HB centurion that doesnt cost 63 freaking points for 2.6 HB hits in return or need to footslog 5 turns in order to catch a wraithknight that shoots them to death without breaking sweat. Whoever thought out the new balance in this game should consider changing job, manual coal mining seems a better intellectual challenge then game balance testing.

Thomas at Blue table painting got this one spot on when reviewing the new SM codex!

The only redeeming thing that can be done is if orks/IG get to follow the new boring rock-paper-scissor trend and become utter tau/eldar slayers just like dark eldar, tau and eldar for example are SM slayers thereby forcing those to (in tournament against all meta) take units that are worthless vs SM/CSM.

I based that on lots and lots of batreps. Usually when there is SM vs eldar or tau it´s not even worth watching the batrep since the outcome is pretty much guaranteed. Take a look at what armies win todays tournaments for example.
Eldar and tau are disgustingly OP compared to SM and chaos.
Even the new tools given to SM to combat the cheese are outright laughable. Centurions and horrendusly overpriced in their HB version, outright useless in their melee version and only situational at best in their grav version. Good luck hunting wraithknight and riptide spam with a crap unit that only has 24 range and cant even run or deepstrike. Must be the same clueless moron that made up their rules that made the psilencers for the GK.

Its always worth watching/reading batreps. I feel its the players, not the armies that win tournaments! It just happens that good players are currently playing with tau - eldar or some combination of the two.

Chaos has some good builds.

I think that it is too early to tell how space marines fit into the current meta.

I do agree tho, centurions do lack range. I feel devastators might fit their role better or centurions with lascannons + missiles.

Its always worth watching/reading batreps. I feel its the players, not the armies that win tournaments!

I dont know, it´s like running a race with 20 pounds strapped to your back (crap codex) saying it´s all about the runner or in other words like playing a game using necron ships with the older BFG rules vs SM ships. There was no way in hell a certified genius could ever beat the necrons even if they were played by a blindfolded moron...I mean gw game balancer.

Then again if we are to take your analogy of the best players playing eldar and tau then this sums up the problem very good, the best players are actually the smartest and the ones who know the most of the game and if THEY all choose to play only taudar that in itself says a lot about the OP of those codexes and the utter crap SM and CSM are in comparison.

CSM have oblits and hellturkeys in their favor and SM have thunderfires and certain bike builds but that is far from enough to touch what eldar and tau were given and again, I laugh at the pathetic attempts to give SM a counter to the xenos cheese. Centurions...pfft, what a joke. Hope that designer gets fired for single handedly screwing up gws centurion box sales.

Thanks all for the continued comments and for all 93 votes so far!

I feel like dice are given too much credit sometimes, and so are "builds". Play what you want, play smart and its a lot more rewarding.

Space Marines have already won some major events, so I wouldn't be too worried about them being valid in competitive play. To be honest, the 5th edition SM codex was totally fine in competitive play (at least post-Death From The Skies), and the 6th edition version seems substantially better.

What's more interesting IMO is the diversity of SM builds available. How many of them will prove to be solid and effective? Only time will tell.

 Kingsley wrote:
What's more interesting IMO is the diversity of SM builds available. How many of them will prove to be solid and effective? Only time will tell.

I totally agree with this. Now the various chapters are actually different. I am able to play e.g. RG rhino/razorback/jp/scout lists, WS bikers, Salamander drop pods etc. with my BA models. I don't care if they aren't all tournament quality or even TAC, as long as they are fun to play and they don't completely suck (=not being tabled by turn 3, thanks to tau and eldar players in my group).

Naw wrote:

 Kingsley wrote:
What's more interesting IMO is the diversity of SM builds available. How many of them will prove to be solid and effective? Only time will tell.

I totally agree with this. Now the various chapters are actually different. I am able to play e.g. RG rhino/razorback/jp/scout lists, WS bikers, Salamander drop pods etc. with my BA models. I don't care if they aren't all tournament quality or even TAC, as long as they are fun to play and they don't completely suck (=not being tabled by turn 3, thanks to tau and eldar players in my group).

Oh, they are fun and varied, I dont disagree with that but fun and varied builds dont mean much when you are tabled by tauday on turn 4 pretty much on a cinsistent basis.

That "some" sm have placed high in an event here and there means nothing compared to the overal mass of tau and eldar taking top spots pretty much everywhere.
Fun is one thing but face the facts, gw has screwed up balance so much 40k looks like the previous fantasy deamons right now and sadly we might wait another decade till the next cycle of codexes come out. before "fun" will actually also mean more competitive play and not only fluffy builds against downgraded xenos lists.

How did you make the scenery like that? I'd love it if I could play with building that don't have just two sides

Space Marines have already won some major events, so I wouldn't be too worried about them being valid in competitive play. To be honest, the 5th edition SM codex was totally fine in competitive play (at least post-Death From The Skies), and the 6th edition version seems substantially better.

What's more interesting IMO is the diversity of SM builds available. How many of them will prove to be solid and effective? Only time will tell.

The divesrity is Key , no one Build is the "best" this makes it not only fun but great in a competitive sense because no one can tryly plan against what they will face.

Kingsley wrote:
What's more interesting IMO is the diversity of SM builds available. How many of them will prove to be solid and effective? Only time will tell.


I totally agree with this. Now the various chapters are actually different. I am able to play e.g. RG rhino/razorback/jp/scout lists, WS bikers, Salamander drop pods etc. with my BA models. I don't care if they aren't all tournament quality or even TAC, as long as they are fun to play and they don't completely suck (=not being tabled by turn 3, thanks to tau and eldar players in my group).

Yup, agreed.

Oh, they are fun and varied, I dont disagree with that but fun and varied builds dont mean much when you are tabled by tauday on turn 4 pretty much on a cinsistent basis.

That "some" sm have placed high in an event here and there means nothing compared to the overal mass of tau and eldar taking top spots pretty much everywhere.
Fun is one thing but face the facts, gw has screwed up balance so much 40k looks like the previous fantasy deamons right now and sadly we might wait another decade till the next cycle of codexes come out. before "fun" will actually also mean more competitive play and not only fluffy builds against downgraded xenos lists.

I for one am happy that Xenos is king TBH. It has been so many years where Space marines were the top dogs its about time there was a change! Rhino rush... razorback spam... drop pod assault... all lists that will go down in infamy. Now the Imperium is truly seiged on all sides!

How did you make the scenery like that? I'd love it if I could play with building that don't have just two sides

Thanks for the comment! I mainly used the Games Workshop cities of death kits to make the cathedral, some foam to raise it and cardboard + sand and white glue, and then a bit of paint as well.

 Pyriel- wrote:
Oh, they are fun and varied, I dont disagree with that but fun and varied builds dont mean much when you are tabled by tauday on turn 4 pretty much on a cinsistent basis.

If you're being tabled at all in 6th edition I think you may need to rethink your strategy.

 Pyriel- wrote:
That "some" sm have placed high in an event here and there means nothing compared to the overal mass of tau and eldar taking top spots pretty much everywhere.
Fun is one thing but face the facts, gw has screwed up balance so much 40k looks like the previous fantasy deamons right now and sadly we might wait another decade till the next cycle of codexes come out. before "fun" will actually also mean more competitive play and not only fluffy builds against downgraded xenos lists.

Of course SM aren't as popular as Tau or Eldar right now-- they just came out! I think with time we will see more people playing Marines-- for example, I've had a Marine army for a long time, but the new Codex has prompted me to do a new wave of modeling and painting, and so I haven't been playing as much as I'd like. The fact that Tau and Eldar are very popular right now is not only due to the fact that they are strong armies, but also thanks to the fact that they are the most recent armies that people have had time to assemble!

If you're being tabled at all in 6th edition I think you may need to rethink your strategy.

It happens. Not only against Tau - Dar tho... tablings are definately a thing. Usually tho you could say that you need to hide a model out of LOS but those SMS missiles can be a pain! At least marines get a save from it.

Of course SM aren't as popular as Tau or Eldar right now-- they just came out! I think with time we will see more people playing Marines-- for example, I've had a Marine army for a long time, but the new Codex has prompted me to do a new wave of modeling and painting, and so I haven't been playing as much as I'd like. The fact that Tau and Eldar are very popular right now is not only due to the fact that they are strong armies, but also thanks to the fact that they are the most recent armies that people have had time to assemble!

Thats one of the arguments for Tau and Eldar as well, they made old models great! (waveserpents*cough*) and this made the army instantly successfull as for marines I think it will take a bit more time as people amass the new models and relearn the meta, and as soon as they crack it! Nids will hit... or some other army that will shake it all up once more.

I'm liking the written BatRep Skari. Even though you have the video of the match, having the written version allows one to get more of the feel from the game between you and your opponent! Nicely done.
Crazy dice rolls all around and tweaks are needed but there is no doubt a rematch coming.... those marines seek vengeance!
Keep em coming

Very enjoyable battle report. Sadly I was rooting for those lovely painted ultras. A sad day for the Emperor's finest.

Chief Librarian Tigrus - ( rolled 4++, re- roll misses, and overwatch at full BS)

10 SternGuard (2 combi meltas, 2 combiplasmas) - Drop Pod

I would not take 10 Sternguard, they cost a lot and you don't get a whole lot more ability in what you can decimate with the extra 5 men. In addition being a close range unit they're susceptible to heavy retaliation (e.g with the Talos in this BP) and with a super-expensive price tag that's not a good thing.

10 Tactical Marines, ML, Plasmagun, Combiplasma - Rhino

10 Tactical Marines, ML, Plasmagun, Combiplasma - Rhino

I'm at the point where I've lost faith in Rhinos altogether in all honesty, but If I had to change anything here it would be taking at the very least 3, recommended 4. ML combat squads are fluffy but naff overall, the points invested in them easily could have bought this list a Tri-Las Predator or Devastator Squad with Lascannons.

I would have honestly scrapped the Sniper Scouts and instead taken another Tactical Squad to go in the Storm Raven and snatch objectives at the last moment and pump off some good extra anti-infantry fire where's it needed most if need be.

5 Sniper Scouts, camo cloaks

Storm Talon - Typhoon Missiles

Storm Raven - Hurricane Bolters, Assault cannon, multimelta

Land Speeder - typhoon

A single Typhoon is really a poor choice as it is just essentially giving an even easier first blood point to your opponent. It's also just pretty meh, doesn't really give the army anything other than a spare toy.

3 Centurion Devastators - Grav Cannons + Amps, Omniscope, Chest Hurricanes

Thunderfire Cannon

The TFC placing here is a bit random and doesn't fit that well.

I think Dev Squads coming in from reserves on foot with the Devastator Doctrine is a tactic I might try with UM one day, makes for a pretty effective alpha strike. I certainly wouldn't use Tiggy without taking Dev or Dev Cent Squads.

All in all the biggest contributing factor to the SM player's loss I feel is the loss of the 300~ pt Sternguard unit off the bat which accomplished very little in return. Sure bad luck played a great part, but starting off with almost a fifth of your army wiped out straight away means you have little capacity to recover in spite of it.

Yeah, the loss of the sternguard really hampered him. The thunderfire is well placed in any SM list IMO. And he has since this game added a 4 lascannon Dev squad for some long range firepower.

I've always enjoyed your video battle reports Skarri, but I have to say that written reports with photographs are my favorite type of Bat Rep. Thanks for taking the extra time to write it up in this format.

Great Report. I loved reading it.

Thank you for the report. It was a great read! I also enjoyed the varied army lists - two sides with a bit of variation in the list is much more interesting that copy/paste army lists.

Shame about the fliers not coming in earlier, as that would have made a big difference to the game and it would have been interesting to see how the DE list dealt with it.

Great report. Lovely looking armies and very nice terrain board. That's 3 for 3 and a homerun in my book.

Thanks for the feedback! I'm glad you like both the vids and the written format. I used to write a lot of batreps back in the day for BnC. I moved to video because of the ease and less time investment. Now I don't get to make as many, so the ones I do should be done properly! And I want everyone to be able to engage and participate. Hence doing both kinds of reports. the next one is a good one! Featuring the Dark Eldar coven and the white scar bikers led by the Khan!