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By the looks of that packaging it's pretty much certain we'll get our game boxes all banged up - it's just a bit of plastic wrap (maybe some bubble, but not more than a layer or two) around the box. No way that gets delivered intact the way packages this size are tossed around.

Oh and joy of joys, they had apparently un-closed my pledge *again*. Dunno when but can't be more than a couple of weeks ago.

I can help on that one, as long as Prodos havn't changed that.
Yes, it's wrapped, but the game comes in an extra sturdy box. So you got the wrap, the box and in that the game. I even kept one, since I want one of my copies to be a "travel" version.

Yeah, that re-opening was mentioned a week or two ago.

Okay then, that's some relief. Thanks.
I'm pretty sure I went back and closed it that time. Oh well.

A guy on BGG posted the following:

aussiejed wrote:Well my two pledge copies were delivered the other day. They appear to be the thicker KS box, however there is a cardboard spacer inside. There are also less straight corridor tiles (28 vs 32) and no flame/acid template.

After all the trouble this has been, I'm not sure it's worth trying to sort this out.

http://boardgamegeek.com/article/20364786#20364786


So check your stuff when it arrives...

I'd have to count corridor and other cardboard stuff to know that number for sure, but there is a box inside which houses all the palstic parts from minis over dice to doorclips. A piece of cardoard meant to keep everything from sliding around. Three packs of cards. What struck me odd was that foampiece glued into the top part of the box to push stuff down.

If he did not get the templates, he is missing stuff.

I'm missing stuff too... like my entire pledge and everything in it.

Me too. But i hold out hope that if/when a game box is delivered, it contains what it is supposed to contain. If KS backers are now getting the cheaper/thinner components AND the retail allotment of components I'll be even more pissed than I am now.

That would be a real fething, especially as the initial retail version was exactly what us KS backers were supposed to get.

Hi my Dear Fellowes ^^

(excuse my bad english)

I would like to inform you that I, backer in France, have received yesterday my pledge box.

I have wrote a little post in my Temple :

http://letempledemorikun.blogspot.ru/2015/09/early-backer-jai-enfin-recu-mon-pledge.html

I worked on the french version of AVP with 2 others : Monsieur H (our Great Leader) and CCCP.

At this point, I only know 3 other backers that received their pledge box (Monsieur H, CCCP and one I forgot the nickname).

We think that we received our box... after shouting a lot at prodos (more in MP) -.-'

Personnaly I demanded a refund at Michal, totally fed up of all this mess few weeks ago (he just answered me "have faith !!")... unsurprisingly he stopped talking... And 8 days ago I was notified that my pledge box were shipped...

In France, we don't have more information but, like you, we see and we know that retailers have been filled AND refilled several times...

I hope you'll receive yours very soon guys... But for me, I'll never buy anything from prodos.

Serviteur,

Morikun

EDIT : Oh, I would forget that little pearl : I'm french, I live in France, I worked on the french translation and I asked Michal for a french rulebook and french cards in MP... And I got an english version without more explanation... funny isn't it ? -.-'

Your "bad english" is way better than my best french... ;"

If I were you, I would make them give you the french material for the game. After the work that you helped with, I would think its the least you deserve!

I would say its unbelieveable, but sadly, it sounds so much like what they've been doing lately. Don't let them feth you!

 Morikun wrote:
Hi my Dear Fellowes ^^

(excuse my bad english)

I would like to inform you that I, backer in France, have received yesterday my pledge box.

Your 'bad' English is a billion times better than my French, and still way better than Prodos' 'bad' English, so no apology necessary.

Having looked at the photos in your blog, you definitely got the retail version not the KS version.

and I agree with Grumpae, you should insist on them sending you French materials free of charge.

Your "bad english" is way better than my best french... ;"

Your 'bad' English is a billion times better than my French, and still way better than Prodos' 'bad' English, so no apology necessary.

Thank you so much, I'm very honoured by these kind comments

If I were you, I would make them give you the french material for the game. After the work that you helped with, I would think its the least you deserve!

and I agree with Grumpae, you should insist on them sending you French materials free of charge.

Well, anyway the original idea was the fact that we (Monsieur H, the french translator and CCCP and I, the re-readers) would like to offer a very good (if not the best) french version to all the french-speakers. We would avoid the situation where the french translation would better than a simple "Google reverso" one. We planned to work for the community despite the fact that prodos is absolutely mad. But Monsieur H has successfully negociated that prodos promised for each of us 3 boxes for our work (we only get one at this point but I prefer knowing that all backers have received their before I get my giveaways... Yeah, I know I'm so idealistic ^^').

Our first thought was that it would not possible to find worst... But in fact it happens (did I told you that Monsieur H, the first who received his box... found it just wrapped in a simple black plastic bag ? And, as you think, it was "a little" smashed ?).

Having looked at the photos in your blog, you definitely got the retail version not the KS version.

Hum... I think Michal will have an another email of mine... -.-'

I've read on Warmania (our best minis french forum) that 1 other backer get his pledge box... After shouting too. So in France, we are 5 early backers shipped.

Serviteur,

Morikun

THAT sucks.
C'mon, shipping stuff in a bit of wrapping?
They even went that far to print AvP on the shipping box.
Yeah, first spend money on useless stuff and then running out - sounds like Prodos.

Just as an addition, here's how you identify whether the box you've received is a KS version or one of the newer Retail versions ......

KS versions have 32 corridor tiles, Retail has 28
KS versions have a set of templates for blasts/flamers/acid spit that are actually for the wargame. Retail does not. Note these template are found on the card sheet that has the circular rooms, in the retail version, that sheet has corridors on it, but you get one less of the other sheets of corridors, hence the drop in overall numbers.
KS versions have the tokens and doors printed on the same thickness cardstock as the tiles. Retail tokens and doors are printed on significantly thinner cardstock.
There has been talk that even the tiles of the retail set are on slightly thinner and lighter card than the KS version, though this is not proven.
KS versions have the cards packed in three decks, inside white card deck boxes. Retail has the same number of cards, but they are simply held together in packs (possibly more than 3) using elastic bands.

Very latest boxes seem to have aliens with the heads removed - they've switched to moulding them seperately to reduce their wastage rates. Arguably this is a good thing as it allows you more scope with posing.

Ok...Thank you for these informations...

Michal will definitely get a new email of mine...

Time for me to go to bed... I'll give you moe information ASAP...

Serviteur,

Morikun

never mind

 krazynadechukr wrote:
Prodos AVP games... $60 & $70!

http://www.ebay.com/sch/trinity*collectables/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

The cheaper of the two does not have the rulebook, dice or cards.

And neither copy has the minis.


What is the point of buying the game with no minis? Or no rules? Or no cards?

So, what is the weight of the KS and the retail versions?

From a quick search, but hopefully someone can confirm: -

3.6kg (8lbs) retail version?

4.6kg (10lbs) KS version?

What are the physical sizes of the boxes, I know the retail is slimmer, but how much?

From recent web activity, appears some backers are getting either the retail boxed version or the KS box with retail tiles!

More smoke and mirrors?

And Prodos wonders why there are so many complaints and bad feelings towards them then they go and pull this and hope backers won't notice that they put retail sets in the KS box hopefully its a shipping/packing error and they correct it but if the new thinner components are in the KS box then that looks deliberate to me.

Is 6.5kg (14lbs) the KS version? (Conclave of Har review 15 July 2015)

Is 4.5kg, box size 7.6 x 53.3 x 31.8 cm (3” x 21” x 12½“) as on on Amazon.co.uk (Cavalier Books) the retail version?

Discussion about recent boxes arriving on closed facebook at moment: -

Guys you had been making great progress in the field of communication in the last few weeks, people are getting the game and loving it and it would be a great shame to spoil it all so close to the last hurdle.
Like · Reply · 1 hr

Rob P Alderman We're looking into it, guys. smile emoticon
Like · Reply · 1 · 26 mins

Jason Jardine I'd suggest there should be a pinned statement to that effect earlier rather than later - a "We're aware that some backers appear to have received the retail version in error, we are investigating and looking at ways to resolve the problem, and will report back as soon as we can" type message, rather than soundbites stuck in the middle of threads.

unless of course it isn't an error .....
Like · 1 · 7 mins

Rob P Alderman Problem is, I have no idea what the full situation is until I get a message back from the warehouse team regarding it.

All I know is that we are looking into it, but I agree with your statement.
Like · 4 mins

Hum, my pledge box weights exactly 4 kg... A new version ? ^^'

And Prodos wonders why there are so many complaints and bad feelings towards them

Obviously, prodos is searching for new apologizes : after the FOX troubles, "writing backrground" but there is no background in fact, french strikes in Calais (so easy !!) to explain why UK backers wouldn't receive their pledge boxes... regarding the last update the problems of prodos seem to belong to... the backers themselves... "Oh, angry backers, its so unfair !!"

Some of us, french backers, are planning to travel to the Spiel Essen in the view to say "a little word" to prodos... It would be epic anyway...

Serviteur,

Morikun

what's "soon" in French?

Ushtug wrote:
Is 6.5kg (14lbs) the KS version? (Conclave of Har review 15 July 2015)

Is 4.5kg, box size 7.6 x 53.3 x 31.8 cm (3” x 21” x 12½“) as on on Amazon.co.uk (Cavalier Books) the retail version?

I have one of the original 51 given out at UK Expo and I can absolutely assure you that the KS version was NEVER 6.5kg. I did measure mine when I got it home, but can't remember the exact figure, but 4.5kg is about right (might have been 4.6?). My understanding is that the retail version in the thinner box weighs in at around 3.5kg.

The KS box is 525mm x 325mm x 65mm. I'm not sure what Cavalier have measured, but their measurements are wrong (probably taken from Prodos measurements of some pre-production version rather than actual measurements). Given the weight, I'd guess theirs is likely the older KS version.

Note - while the retail box is most definitely shallower by a couple of centimetres or so, I've read talk that some of the recent deliveries to backers have been retail components (see my previous post for obvious differences) inside KS boxes with some additional foam/card as space filler. To my mind this suggests that Prodos knows exactly what they are doing, and that therefore this recent debacle is not a "mistake" but rather is entirely intentional.

The obvious conclusion would be that they sent a large chunk of KS version boxes to retail (we know this for sure) but now don't have enough KS components to complete KS delivery, and so rather than a new KS production run (which will be very costly and minimum print runs will probably mean they'll end up with way too much KS spec stock, which then won't fit in retail boxes, so they'll need more of them as well) they are are delivering retail components to backers instead. They probably thought we wouldn't notice, or wouldn't care, or perhaps they truly believe it doesn't matter because they are still delivering product.

Since this has kicked off, Jarek has stated the following ....

Jarek Ever we are checking with supplier, however the flamer and blast templates were removed in both instances as they are obsolete (not used in Board game and wargame ones are updated) + we had tons of emails asking for them, so there is now layout of tiles. I sshould have more info after weekend.

Make of that what you will, but it sounds like firefighting balony to me. Nobody reported getting a KS box without templates until they started reporting getting retail components in the KS boxes - thinner card, less corridors, super thin card for tokens and doors etc, so I get the distinct impression there's an attempt right there to pretend this is all correct and above board. They really must think we were born yesterday.

Joyboozer wrote:
what's "soon" in French?

bientôt = soon

Ughhh where's my stuff already?!

This is disgusting behavior. Even if they deliberately removed the templates, they did so without letting us know, and without letting us know when and how the 'updated' versions would be provided. How would they expect people to react? Of course when you combine the missing templates with the retail quantity of tiles and retail quality and the added filler it is hard to take this as anything other than a big "feth You KS Backer".

This is just so damned bad. And yet, I am a vitriolic hater because I point it out.

I am pretty sure I said this before but it bears repeating: feth Prodos.

I'm of a mind just to go bloody fetch it from their offices...

So, I've just send the following to Michal :


My dear Michal,

I would like to inform you that I received my pledge box 2 days ago...

I must confess that I'm really disgusted by the fact that you didn't answer me when, firstly, I demanded you some precise and true explanations about the situation where prodos was proud to announce that about 1500 backers were shipped and, secondly, I asked for a refund because of fed up with all this mess...

So I receive my pledge box... If I would thank prodos because the minis are really amazing with lots details etc etc etc... prodos sent me an english version (rulebook and cards)... BUT, I'm absolutely certain (check my previous mails please) that I asked for a french version... Due to the fact I'm french, I live in France... and I'm the one of your 3 french backers who worked on your french translation !!!!!

But the most important is that prodos sent me a retail version instead a KS version !!! Where are the templates promised (flammer, acid etc etc etc...) ? The bonus tiles ? The white deck cards boxes ? The token sheet is very thinner than promised !!

Would you be kind enough to give me your opinion about that please ? Must I understand that this box is 1 of the 3 promised as giveaways for working on the french translation which as promised by Rob Aldermann ? It is possible to get french translation please ?

Most of all, IS IT POSSIBLE YOU ANSWER ME PLEASE ?????

Waiting, nevertheless, for your answer,

Morikun


I think I can expect no more than nothing but after all... I tryed...

Serviteur,

Morikun

So... wheres my crap? Seriously, at this point I'm more fed up with Prodos than I am Palladium. Supposedly, someone (Ninja Division?) has had a couple of skids of pledge boxes sitting in a warehouse somewhere for almost 2 months but has yet to ship a single fething box to anyone? I call bs.

Allegedly Ninja Division is starting to send out what they have. They initially were waiting for Prodos to send all the US KS allotment before sending, but that has changed.

Now, if/when the rest of it hits the US, some other company closer to the port will send out the remainder. So if you are lucky, one of the ones currently at Ninja Division will be heading your way. If you are really lucky, it will be an actual KS version and not a retail version stuffed into a KS box. I suspect the still awaiting to arrive sets will be retail versions in a KS box. I also suspect Ninja Division is washing their hands of this mess.

 Morikun wrote:
I think I can expect no more than nothing but after all... I tryed...

Honestly... when dealing with a situation like this where an order is wrong from a KS, to get something done it is better not to preface it with any personal feelings and judgments. It is all in how you deliver a message that can determine getting a response. At this point they already know they've messed up. They already know that there are people unhappy and you are just trying to get something corrected. Having dealt with campaigns like this where items are late, people are upset, I've found getting replacements and corrections to be easiest that way. When I had my issues that was all I did and it was sorted out in a few days with stuff arriving a few weeks later. I probably would have simply said something like:

Hello,

I just received my Kickstarter pledge box.

I had asked for a French version but this one was English. Also it looks like I was sent a Retail version instead of the Kickstarter version. I am missing tiles, the templates and the tiles appear to be the thin ones I've seen with the Retail version.

How can I get this corrected? Here is my order number and information....