Karandras vs drazhar

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**hiveof_chimera**

Th two Phoenix lords
the striking scorpions karandras
The incubi drazhar

The Question is: is drazhar ap2 because at all because I can't find it
This is TT wise not fluff( though I can't find much fluff on karandras only on maugaun ra)

**Krellnus**

Karandras, they are both AP 2, but I'm pretty sure Karandras is S:8?

**hiveof_chimera**

Yes but how is drawbar ap2 because I can't find it in his profile nor in the rulebook

**PredaKhaine**

In the eldar codex iirc, it describes a 2 day fight between these two.
I think each was trying to outhide/ambush the other. It states something like 'only one left with his sanity intact'

On TT, I think Drazhar has ap2 - as far as I know, they'll both kill each other in 1 round of cc

**soundwave591**

Drazhar has ap2 its been FAQ'd and yeah I think both would kill the other. so draw?

**PredaKhaine**

How many attacks does Drazhar get?

IIRC Karandras gets 4 base and 1 for two cc weapons (neither charging)
Given they're hitting on 4's, he may not take Drazhar down in one round. If Drazhar gets less (I don't know if his weapon is 2 handed) then Karandras gets a very slight advantage.
If not, then they're bang on equal.

**rohansoldier**

I think Drazhar would have more attacks if he chooses to use his demi klaives two handed (he has the option to get +2 strength or + 2 attacks).

So that means he would either have 4 strength 6 attacks (+ 1 if charging) or 6 strength 4 attacks (7 if charging).

Karandras on the other hand has 5 strength 8 attacks (6 if charging) at Initiative 7 and unlike Drazhar, he has plasma grenades so assaults at full Initiative through cover.

As neither has an Invulnerable save, I would say they will probably kill each other but it is pretty even as if Drazhar goes for his strength 6 attacks they both have the same amount wounding on 2+ with no save.

Put them in an Arena of Death style scenario and see what happens!

**Da Epic Pegasus**

Well I really think it comes down to initiative stat because they are both very even attacks wise. Karandras is initiative 7 with 5 attacks at S8. What is drazars initiative?

**HerbaciousT**

7 as well. As far as I see it, they'll likely kill each other in 1 round.

Actually, thinking about it, Karandras is more likely to win. He only needs to land 1 attack to ID Drazhar, whilst Drazhar needs to wound with 2 or 3 attacks? Dunno how many wounds Karandras has. In any case, Karandras will only lose wounds, whilst Drazhar will be ID'd.

**PredaKhaine**

rohansoldier wrote:
I think Drazhar would have more attacks if he chooses to use his demi klaives two handed (he has the option to get +2 strength or + 2 attacks).

So that means he would either have 4 strength 6 attacks (+ 1 if charging) or 6 strength 4 attacks (7 if charging).

Karandras on the other hand has 5 strength 8 attacks (6 if charging) at Initiative 7 and unlike Drazhar, he has plasma grenades so assaults at full Initiative through cover.

As neither has an Invulnerable save, I would say they will probably kill each other but it is pretty even as if Drazhar goes for his strength 6 attacks they both have the same amount wounding on 2+ with no save.

Put them in an Arena of Death style scenario and see what happens!

Having seen this (thanks btw)

I think Karandras has a slight edge - with WS being eqaul, half the attacks will hit.
So Drazhar either hits with 2 st6 attacks or 3 st4 attacks.

Karandras will hit with 2-3 st8 attacks.

Karandras has a slight edge in the first round.
If it goes to a second round, they both die.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

HerbaciousT wrote:
7 as well. As far as I see it, they'll likely kill each other in 1 round.

Actually, thinking about it, Karandras is more likely to win. He only needs to land 1 attack to ID Drazhar, whilst Drazhar needs to wound with 2 or 3 attacks? Dunno how many wounds Karandras has. In any case, Karandras will only lose wounds, whilst Drazhar will be ID'd.

They both have eternal warrior so no id'ing I'm afraid.

**HerbaciousT**

How did I not realise Drazhar had EW? Silly me.

**Ascalam**

It would be an interesting fight

Don't forget that Drahzar would also have Preferred Enemy vs Karandras due to Murderous Assault, and and to-wound of 6 would also generate another attack due to Onslaught.

My bet would be that they take each other out. They seem pretty evenly matched, and neither is getting a save against the other's attacks or an initiative advantage.

**PredaKhaine**

If Drazhar has preferred enemy and that 6's rule, then I'm going back to they should kill each other in a turn bar awful rolling

**Happyjew**

Sigh...if only Karandras had been given Disarming Strike...

**raiden**

Karandras eats things. Int 7str 8 ap 2 hits.

**Happyjew**

On average
Karandras: 2.245 Wounds per turn (0.162 from Mandiblasters, 2.083 from Scorpion Claw)
Drazhar: 2.042 wounds per turn (split), 2.269 wounds per turn (clasped). This does not factor in the additional attack.

Either way they will kill each other at the same time. Unless they both roll horribly to hit/wound.

**Ascalam**

raiden wrote:
Karandras eats things. Int 7str 8 ap 2 hits.

So does Drahzar.. they are both wounding the other on 2, at ap2.

They are hitting at the same initiative since their statline is identical.

All of Drahzar's attacks are AP2, clasped or unclasped. I would probably run him unclasped, for more attacks, and more chance of generating extra, even though that would mean wounding on 3's. Drahzar doesnt hit quite as hard, but in this match its less relevant, and he hits more often than karandras.

**hiveof_chimera**

With drazhar clasp his base str is 4/3 so it's 2s or 3s to wound with 5 atks
Split he wounds on 4 or 5s (karandras is t4) with 6/7 atks

Karandras has 5 takes wounding on 2s with possible re roll from stalker plus mandiblaster wounds on 2s(but he gets armour)

I reckon clasped his better but karandras gets mandiblasters, stalker as well so he might come out on top

**ALEXisAWESOME**

I would say Mutual Destruction, with both having a chance to win first turn. It will be if Karandras gets 3 hits in the first round he probably wins, and if Drazhar gets 3 hits due to onslaught he will proablely win. This si what happens when you have 2 identical statlines with AP 2 and no Invul (Although Drazhar has the option to get FnP, which thanks to eternal warrior works on everything).

**Badablack**

They face each other unmoving, waiting in tense silence. Each knows that with a single flurry of blows they will kill the other, and die as well.

Hours pass, neither making the first move, waiting for the other to make a mistake.

Drazhar suddenly falls over from lack of evil pain energy because he hasn't raped a kitten all day.

Karandras steals his blades and writes "Second Best Scorpion Phoenix Lord" on Drazhar's armor in permanent marker.

**raiden**

They both have 4++ invlun.. battle fortune I believe.

**Happyjew**

raiden wrote:
They both have 4++ invlun.. battle fortune I believe.

You believe incorrectly.

Karandras has Monster Hunter (which won't do anything) and Stalker which gives (potentially) gives him re-roll To Wound first round.
Karandras gets first attack with his Mandiblasters (which will guaranteed to be saved against). They then both attack and will deal a few wounds causing mutual death. Then an Exarch will wander by and respawn Karandras. I've no idea if Drazhar has the Phoenix Lord respawn ability.

**Grey Templar**

Drazhar probably does, he is a Phoenix Lord after all(probably)

Its just that he's much more shadowy than the regular PLs.

**Ascalam**

For all we know, he can't actually be killed,

One theory is that he did a Thousand Sons, and is just bone dust in there.

He apparently doesn't need to eat or sleep, and never talks.

Who knows

**Happyjew**

IIRC last time the two of them fought, Karandras just mocked him until Drazhar went crazy and disappeared leaving Drazhar to kill all of his followers.