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Let's say that a new bolt gun was added to the list of the games weapon. Let's call it the Squad Automatic Bolter or SAB. It would have the following profile:

SAB range 24" s4 ap5 rapid fire+1

The crazy plus 1 at the end would mean that it would function like a rapid fire weapon but get 1 extra attack each turn. Effectively giving it 2 shots out to max range or 3 at up to 12 inches but you cannot assault.

My questions are

1) is this op?
2) if this weapon were available as the heavy weapon option for tax squads would you take it at the same price as a heavy Bolter?
3) is the special rule to confusing?

Please discuss!

Not OP.

But wouldn't take it. If I'm going to pay points for something I would want more than 1 extra bolter shot. Hvy bolter's disadvantage is that you have to remain stationary to fire at full BS, but in return I increase the killing range of the squad, get that extra pip of strength (which is big) and always have three shots.

Basically, it's a Bolter, but it's Salvo 2/3.

Seems pretty useless to me as a one-off special weapon.

LOL,

I didn't actually even remember salvo weapons because I don't think the marines even really have any.

However, the idea is to replace the heavy bolter with a weapon that better fits the fact that fire and movement is now something that troops mostly armed with rapid fire weapons can do alot better.

Basically, how many shots would a weapon that was S4 AP5 (like a bolter) need to have as a salvo weapon to be worth about the same as a heavy bolter? This weapon would not replace the special weapon in the unit but the HEAVY weapon. (I also get that the heavy bolter adds strength which is really powerful, but we are looking for a weapon that would make a competative choice not be identical. The heavy bolter has its purpose but it is not a high volume of fire on the move weapon for infantry.)

I was thinking that 3 shots when not moving would be fine but maybe it needs 4 or even 5. It would need need at least 2 shots when moving and out to the maximum range to make it worth it.

Basically, it seems like the 6th edition needs some more light machine gun type weapons that are about the same fighting power as rapid fire weapons but higher volume to compliment the games new emphasis on fire and movement.

Also it wouldn't be a one-off weapon like a combi-weapon. It would be the squads heavy weapon.

Well, it's a Storm Bolter but a bit better, so... Storm Bolters are overpriced at 5 points, so make it 5 points.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
Well, it's a Storm Bolter but a bit better, so... Storm Bolters are overpriced at 5 points, so make it 5 points.

Ok but space marine tacticals pay 10 points for a heavy bolter. How many strength 4 ap 5 attacks would it have to have in order to be worth the same points as a heavy bolter.

Anyway, thanks for indulging in this thought experiment.

Dunno why we needed two threads about the same idea...

No I would not take this weapon because it isnt actually a special weapon its just a Boltgun with more shots. The only way I would take this weapon would be if it was a free option and I had no points left to further upgrade the squad.

How is a weapon that can be fired on the move with an increased volume of fire not an upgrade?

A 2/3 or 2/4 salvo bolt gun would be worth at least the 5 recommended above. It's real value would be its synergy with the plasma gun or the other special weapons.

IthinkIbrokeit wrote:

However, the idea is to replace the heavy bolter with a weapon that better fits the fact that fire and movement is now something that troops mostly armed with rapid fire weapons can do alot better.

Then here, have this:

Astartes Heavy Bolter: R36", S5, AP4, Salvo 2/3, Strikedown

Not just provides mobility to your AHB equipped tactical squads but also hinders the mobility of your opponent (because of the Strikedown).

If that weapon is already in the game it fills the same role I am looking for.

If not it's a better weapon than what I have presented. I would worry that instead of supplementing the heavy Bolter that weapon would just make it obsolete which would not hVe been myy intent.

I reckon changing the HB to a salvo weapon could allow for more people to consider it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AtoMaki wrote:

IthinkIbrokeit wrote:

However, the idea is to replace the heavy bolter with a weapon that better fits the fact that fire and movement is now something that troops mostly armed with rapid fire weapons can do alot better.

Then here, have this:

Astartes Heavy Bolter: R36", S5, AP4, Salvo 2/3, Strikedown

Not just provides mobility to your AHB equipped tactical squads but also hinders the mobility of your opponent (because of the Strikedown).

basically this

IthinkIbrokeit wrote:
If that weapon is already in the game it fills the same role I am looking for.

If not it's a better weapon than what I have presented. I would worry that instead of supplementing the heavy Bolter that weapon would just make it obsolete which would not hVe been myy intent.

Nah, it is just my gaming club's fix to the heavy bolter. You just replace the heavy botler in the SM and CSM codex with the Astartes/Legion Heavy Bolter (Legion Heavy Bolter for the CSM, but same stats) and there you go: you have a good, mobile rapid firing heavy weapon that can be useful for a change of pace (unlike the normal Heavy Botler that is just a waste of 10 points and a heavy weapon slot).

I think I'd prefer the heavy bolter, marine squads aren't always moving.

I also think that generally the primary machine gun of each army should have the pinning special rule.

Really the fastest way to improve 40k would be to send the rules authors a copy of Avalon hill's squad leader.