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HQ Kor'Sarro Khan
Moondrakken

HQ Command Squad
Bikes
Apothecary
Grav Gun x3
Standard of the Emperor Ascendant

Fast Storm Talon
Heavy Bolter

Fast Storm Talon
Heavy Bolter

Fast Storm Talon
Heavy Bolter

Troops Bikes
2 Additional Bikers
Grav Gun x2

Troops Bikes
2 Additional Bikers
Grav Gun x2

Troops Bikes
2 Additional Bikers
Grav Gun x2

Troops Bikes
2 Additional Bikers
Grav Gun x2

Troops Bikes
2 Additional Bikers
Grav Gun x2

Troops Bikes
2 Additional Bikers
Grav Gun x2

Heavy Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy Thunderfire Cannon

Heavy Thunderfire Cannon

Comes in at 1850 on the nose. The only thing I see being a possible issue is a 3 LR list or Mech IG, but not sure what to change to deal with it. Should rip through Hordes and Heavy Infantry lists with ease. Also other SM lists would be hard pressed not to lose to this list me thinks. I want someone to throw the book at this at tell me how far off they see this before I go pickup all the models..

Im guessing this is a tournament list? I might drop a unit of bikes for 10 man scout sniper squad, and you could buy a land speeder storm with a heavy flamer for pathfinders/hordes.

My list is very similar to yours, minus 2 tfc and 2 storm talons. I really want to run 2 ironclad dreads and 3 drop pods, 2 for them and one for the TFC which dosent go in it. But white scars look down on being a dread, so I may substitute sternguard for turn one heavy flamer/melta goodness. With all those bikes and drop podding sternguard, you may be able to pull out most of the victory before things like helldrakes can contribute too much to the game.

This is designed to be a Tournament Level list.

What do Sniper Scouts give me other than some anti-infantry at range and/or precision shots with a possible AP2...

I also feel that the three TFCs fit the same roll as the Land Speeder. I think that modification would be trading 1 VP for 2. with no tactical change over all, just a variant on the same idea.

I could easily see dropping 2 bike squads for a 10 man Sternguard unit. I already have the models for that. I'll probably play it out for a bit and try it once or twice. Probably naked other than (2) Heavy Flamers and a Combi-Melta or two.

I agree with the army Strategy. The only things that bother me are Helldrake Spam, and Tau Gunline...

I believe it's going to come down to making the game stick before 550 points in drakes come on in the first case, and then scatter on the TFCs will decide the secound. I need to root most of his entrenched stuff out, priority going to markerlight squads.

Anything else?

I would drop Khan for a captain with bike, stormshield, arti armor anf possibly the burning blade, to tank the command squad. Also add a fourth gravgun to the command squad

I don't feel that the scout for the bikes is worth taking Khan for. Also, some MM speeders could do good if facing LRs or other AV14 vehicles?

jason2250 wrote:
This is designed to be a Tournament Level list.

What do Sniper Scouts give me other than some anti-infantry at range and/or precision shots with a possible AP2...

I also feel that the three TFCs fit the same roll as the Land Speeder. I think that modification would be trading 1 VP for 2. with no tactical change over all, just a variant on the same idea.

I could easily see dropping 2 bike squads for a 10 man Sternguard unit. I already have the models for that. I'll probably play it out for a bit and try it once or twice. Probably naked other than (2) Heavy Flamers and a Combi-Melta or two.

I agree with the army Strategy. The only things that bother me are Helldrake Spam, and Tau Gunline...

I believe it's going to come down to making the game stick before 550 points in drakes come on in the first case, and then scatter on the TFCs will decide the secound. I need to root most of his entrenched stuff out, priority going to markerlight squads.

Anything else?

I use scouts with cloaks and snipers to go to ground in cover near objectives. Infiltrate will usually let you at least camp one hard to reach objective. For those pesky ones put up in ruins before you could block that with your own objective. Cheap and effective.

I squadron my land speeders, so its not 2 vp, its more like 1 vp with 2 or 3 speeders in the group.

Unfortunatley due to interceptor like crazy in tau, the best targets for your sternguard are also the ones that will kill em first. I would love to have 3 pods, one for a thunderfire that wont be used, and 2 for 2 ironclads with heavy flamer and meltagun. Then that's at least one turn the enemy has to deal with your dreads and not your bikes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is the list I think I have settled on for now. Not as many bikes as I would like, but still very fun.

Khan
Moondraken

5x command squad
bikes, apothecary, 3x grav guns

5x bikes
2x grav guns, combi-grav

5x bikes
2x grav guns, combi-grav

5x bikes
2x grav guns, combi-grav

5x bikes
2x grav guns, combi-grav

2x land speeders
heavy bolter, typhoon missile launcher

2x land speeders
heavy bolter, typhoon missile launcher

Thunderfire cannon
drop pod

Ironclad dreadnaught
meltagun, heavy flamer, drop pod

Ironclad dreadnaught
meltagun, heavy flamer, drop pod

Stormtalon
skyhammer missles

1845 points. A lot of people don't like land speeders, but I find them fun. Its not gonna win any adepticon tourneys or anything, but its good enough for my local meta tourneys anyday. And it has the advantage on the mirror match of dreads that are still pretty good on the drop.

My battleplan is to drop the dreads on either side of his lines, and hit vulnerable/important targets such as pathfinders by aiming for them, and hopefully scattering the minimum off of them in perfect flamer setup. Or as best as I can position them. Either way 2 dreads have to be dealt with, I don't know many armies that can ignore them to gun down the bikes, maybe fast elder. Then the bikes do what they do best, while the thunderfire helps me with hordes/snipeing/making any units close to a table edge take casualties and hopefully run off. And the landspeeders act like mobile devastator units, with 4 krak missile and 6 heavy bolter shots per unit. Against a solid block of bikes list with just grav, I would probably be tabled pretty quick. Still this list should stand a chance against any popular lists out there except maybe screamerstar with fateweaver if I go second. He would absolutely have to die turn one if I go first.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 masquerade81 wrote:
I would drop Khan for a captain with bike, stormshield, arti armor anf possibly the burning blade, to tank the command squad. Also add a fourth gravgun to the command squad

I don't feel that the scout for the bikes is worth taking Khan for. Also, some MM speeders could do good if facing LRs or other AV14 vehicles?

scout is absolutely awesome with bikes and grav gun combos in particular. My last game with nids I had wiped out swarmlord and his retinue on the scout before he could get iron arm, invis, or endurance off. He had some nasty psychic rolls, and without scout I woldnt have had the firepower I needed to focus him down before he ran over my army.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also 4+ jink with the skimmers for white scars means nobody gets as much mileage out of them.

If you keep Khan, I would go with MM Attack Bikes over MM Speeders. But yeah, an MM squad might help against that LR list you're fearing.

I am less afraid of the LRs than I was before. Since the Grav Guns land an Immobilised result and strip a hull point, the subsequent are 2hp per since you can't be immobile twice. All I need to do is pump shots into the LRs and they should wreck out. Wrecking them is better to give me more stuff to hide behind me thinks...

I will take the MM thought under consideration, I could drop a flier for a couple of MM attack bikes...

Paul

jason2250 wrote:
I am less afraid of the LRs than I was before. Since the Grav Guns land an Immobilised result and strip a hull point, the subsequent are 2hp per since you can't be immobile twice. All I need to do is pump shots into the LRs and they should wreck out. Wrecking them is better to give me more stuff to hide behind me thinks...

I will take the MM thought under consideration, I could drop a flier for a couple of MM attack bikes...

Paul

I've been play testing a similar list and I would say you absolutely want at least one, probably 2 squads of melta toting bikers. 2 meltas, a combimelta, and a multi-melta doesn't mess around.

I did not find grav to be remotely reliable at immobilizing vehicles either. I was playing against wave serpents so I really only cared that they were immobilized. Several times I rolled 7 hits against a Serpent to net no 6s.
Odds say this wouldn't happen but it definitely does. Definitely proxy and play test before you model EVERYTHING w/ grav. Melta still holds in own in a lot of places.
And against a land raider wrecking them w/ grav is going to take more grav than your list can put out. (EDIT: On second thought, maybe not more grav than your list can put out, but it would take an inordinate amount of your force to do it reliably)

I think dropping 1 TFC and using the points to upgrade two Bike Squads w/ 4 bikers, 2 melta, combi, and MM atk bike (159 pts total ~25 points more than the grav squads) will make your list much more effective.
This will also net you Skyhammer missiles on at least a couple of your Stormtalons, all 3 if you shuffle a few more points around.
You still have an abundance of anti-infantry/anti-MC, and these changes will give you the much needed ability to open up transports (Skyhammer/melta) and threaten av-13/14 (melta).

Heavy bolters are a terrible waste on stormtalons, get the skyhammer missiles.

You need combi-weapons in all squads.

Why the standard?

Grav weapons are not kill-all weapons. I played a tourney last weekend, and in two matches, I didn`t fire a single grav-shot because my opponents played deamons (no saves). They are also terrible against light vehicles, and they can`t instantkill anything, so there are many hard-counters when you have this amount of grav weapons.

I also think you may have too many bikes on the table. 7 squads is a lot of big bases. It is hard to get the maximum performance out of all the bikes because of short ranges and them running into eachother.

Must confess, have not played with or against grav guns yet, but from thinking it through, I wouldn't want to rely on it as my first line of anti-tank. I'd swap a stormtalon for MM Atk Bikes.