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Ive been thinking about getting some of these guys and was wondering how they work, how do i get the most out of them. They seem a great all around unit, but what are they really good at?

From a non-technical standpoint, as I am not a DA player, just having played against them they are awesome. They will shred anything they set their eyes on. However, I legitimately feel bad when I roast the whole squad with one Heldrake volley.

herpguy wrote:
From a non-technical standpoint, as I am not a DA player, just having played against them they are awesome. They will shred anything they set their eyes on. However, I legitimately feel bad when I roast the whole squad with one Heldrake volley.

So dont let them get hit by heldrakes and they wreck. awesome

Yep pretty much. They are one unit that white scars don't have an equivalent of.

Get something to tank hellturkey hits and they are awesome. The real power of the unit is the grenade launcher.

BTW take them as the command squad. They are cheaper, don't take a slot, and get some nice upgrade options.

 ansacs wrote:
Get something to tank hellturkey hits and they are awesome. The real power of the unit is the grenade launcher.

BTW take them as the command squad. They are cheaper, don't take a slot, and get some nice upgrade options.

All of this.
Lowering T, followed by a plasma volley, followed by Corvus hammers, followed by hit & run, followed by all of that again is awesome.

Also, I don't see how Helldrakes are that big a problem with scout. You should be in CC by turn 2, keeping them nice and safe before H&R to shoot again.

Take a 5 man Command Squad with an Apoth, the H&R banner, and a RW grenade launcher. You won't be disappointed.

That is very true, I would usually only get 1 shot at them from my Heldrake per game.

You should almost always outflank them. Don't let them get scratched by small arms fire, don't charge unless you know you can win. Use them to kill MC's and hard infantry.

I've never been impressed by mine though. I've had a Daemon Prince wipe out a 400+ pt squad of them before they even struck, I've had them get gunned down by small arms and Helldrake'd, and they've never really killed anything that made them worth their exorbitant points cost.

herpguy wrote:
Yep pretty much. They are one unit that white scars don't have an equivalent of.

...and that is the reason why I ally my white scars with dark angels. For the DAs, I use a level 2 Libby on bike (with a PFG if points allows), the compulsory troop is a small squad of snipers with missile, and a command squad of 5 black knights with one champion.

This way, everything scouts up 12 inches (including my transports with white scars). The black knights will scout out of LOS on turn 1 if possible. This way they do not soak up fire on the way to the other side. On turn 2, every bikes moves 12 more inches forward and we are ready for rapid fire or an assault! I am even tempted to try to wiggle in a Dark shroud in order to provide that precious little +1 bonus to cover saves (pretty useless when I fight TAUs and/or Eldars, but nice against almost every other armies)

How has the RW Champion treated you? I've never seen it as a worthy upgrade, but perhaps I'm missing something?

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
How has the RW Champion treated you? I've never seen it as a worthy upgrade, but perhaps I'm missing something?

Pretty ordinary unfortunatelly but that is how I modeled one of my knights. I am tempted to break it down in order to switch it to an apothecary but I'm not too sure about the 30pts price tag for feel no pain.

...If I consider that I will have 5 feel no pain to do and that I will succeed 1.66 FnP... it might be worth its points.

 paqman wrote:

UnadoptedPuppy wrote:
How has the RW Champion treated you? I've never seen it as a worthy upgrade, but perhaps I'm missing something?

Pretty ordinary unfortunatelly but that is how I modeled one of my knights. I am tempted to break it down in order to switch it to an apothecary but I'm not too sure about the 30pts price tag for feel no pain.

...If I consider that I will have 5 feel no pain to do and that I will succeed 1.66 FnP... it might be worth its points.

the models are 40 pts. one save nets you a 10 point gain. ONE.

Black knights really do have to be used in conjunction with other elements of the list to milk for full value. They also need 2 elements to really unleash them.
1) Hellturkey killer
2) AP3+ignore cover tanker

This is why I have been playing with allying in an IH biker chapter master and stormraven detachment from SM. With the eternal shield and a thunderhammer the chapter master can tank all the hits that will kill the rest of the squad on his 2+/3++/5+ FnP and IWND. The stormraven can then come in and have a 50% chance to kill destroy a hellturkey every turn.

I personally would not outflank the black knights unless I am forced to by an going first + a truly massive amount of ignore cover AP3. You should always be able to shoot something down to a reasonable number and then get into CC with it. In fact I usually have to figure out ways to not overkill so I can stay in CC through the opponent's turn. This is a good use for the PFG biker libby as he gives your squad a 4++ and can be used to give those last survivors a 4++ to hopefully keep you in melee to HnR out later.

I love to outflank them. S7 shots against the rear armor of any tank bugging you, it is invaluable.

I play against a lot of AP3 so I have tac marines with no armor save, tthese guys come in handy outflanking up to 12" to position themselves against rear armor of a leman russ, or to take out an enemies scoring unit in their backfield, and don't even get me started on how easy these guys open up transports so you can get to the juicy goodness inside.

And although expensive, I have used a 10man squad of these guys to outflank behind a zooming vendetta. Statistically, you will net 5-6 S7 shots to rear armor of 10 thanks to twin-linked and rapid fire.

A pfg gives them a 4+ invul, and a darkshroud ups cover save to 3+