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Just wanted to float the idea of razordons to the masses.
I've run a unit of 6 three times now, and been extremely happy with the results.

Initially, I ran them out on the flanks so that I could try and skirt around combat and get more shooting in. After a game, I realized this was folly.
Drop them in the center with infantry on either side covering their flanks.
With the general/BSB nearby, they will put out plenty of hurt and combat, and will have targets come to them.
I've been running with a Lore of Metal slaan, and a level 2 heavens skink.
I'm hoping for enchanted blades, Plague of Rust or Transmutation of Lead on the slaan, or Harmonic Convergence or Curse of the Midnight wind on the skink.
The +1 to hit (enchanted) or re-roll 1's to hit and wound makes the shooting very deadly. The armor save reduction (plague of rust/transmutation) and the re-roll 6's to save (curse of midnight) all let the Razordons effectively engage heavy armor.
I know lore of metal doesn't get a lot of love; but lizardmen are a list with tons of very effective S3 and S4 attacks/shots. What lizardmen lack is the ability to punch armor. Lore of metal, especially when paired with the high volume of razordons, solves that problem.

Enchanted blades makes a unit of 6 razordons exceptionally dangerous in combat. 12 attacks hitting on 3's at S5 save -3 is a killer. A fist full of S3 sv-1 attacks helps out too.

So what do you do about the price tag? ~$30 each is very steep.
Answer, dark elf cold ones. With a little bit of work (carve off saddles, sculpt scales where saddles used to be, and add spiky tail), you get 5 cold ones for $35. Add in box of skinks for handlers. Now you have 15 handlers and 5 razordons for $70 (instead of $150) and you have 9 spare skinks as well.

I'll post some pics when I finish the conversions.

-Matt

nice idea on the conversions, i was planning on using some razordons coming up but didnt know how i would buy enough of them to use for real.

Cant wait to see the finished results.

I think the units themselves are very similar to Leadbelchers. You can go through both models and down the line they are almost identical. Razors will get off more shots, leads at further range with AP and an extra CC attack but at -1S. Lots of little gives and takes. But Razors have terrible LD and are very expensive. I know it's not great comparing races and all, but it still gives you a ballpark. They are about 50% more expensive. Dat's a lot.

DukeRustfield wrote:
I think the units themselves are very similar to Leadbelchers. You can go through both models and down the line they are almost identical. Razors will get off more shots, leads at further range with AP and an extra CC attack but at -1S. Lots of little gives and takes. But Razors have terrible LD and are very expensive. I know it's not great comparing races and all, but it still gives you a ballpark. They are about 50% more expensive. Dat's a lot.

It's 50% more expensive (9 leadbeltchers for 6 razordons).
But it's also ~50 more shots, (Art die vs D6)
Takes 50% more wounds to kill it. (5+ armor and 5+ handler save vs just light armor for the ogres)
Leadership is about the same LD7 passes 57% of the time, LD5 cold blooded passes 53% of the time.

Combat, ogres get 24 to 27 attacks at S4 Init 2. Razors get 12 S5 attacks and 18 S3 attacks, all at init 4.
Against T3 to T5, it's a wash. Ogres get impact hits, Razors stomp harder.

The big advantage of Razordons is:
Skimish: more survivable against shooting, free reforms should you want to march around a unit.
Swift Strider: faster.
Strider: Being a skirmisher, they get strider too.
Cold Blooded: Lizardmen armies usually are packing an Ld9 or Ld10 general. Between that and a BSB, they can lose combat by 5 and still have a 77% chance to hold.
Init 4: They dish out the same pain as 9 ogres in combat, but do it at initiative 4 (or 5 with a solar ark).
Quick to Fire: Unlike leadbeltchers who cannot stand and fire and must choose between a round of shooting and charging, Razordons get fire at point blank, and then get a super stand and fire at point blank.

In a nutshell, Init 4 lets Razordons out fight an equal value of ogres.
Skirmish and Swift Strider lets them out move leadbeltchers.
Quick to fire lets them out shoot and equal value of ogres.
Cold Blooded makes razordons more reliable than an equal value of leadbeltchers.

Give them a try, you'll like them.

-Matt

Well, it's not REALLY 50% more shots when you have misfires and eating your guys. A leadbelcher the worst he can do is roll 1 and miss. A razordon will eventually go all aggro and have to take a monster reaction too, which limits their use.

I guess my point is, I've heard of them referred to as really cheap artillery. But they are really expensive elite archers.

leadbelchers fire 3.5 missiles per ogre
razordons fire 5 missles per beast
that's pretty much 50% more

DukeRustfield wrote:
Well, it's not REALLY 50% more shots when you have misfires and eating your guys. A leadbelcher the worst he can do is roll 1 and miss. A razordon will eventually go all aggro and have to take a monster reaction too, which limits their use.

I guess my point is, I've heard of them referred to as really cheap artillery. But they are really expensive elite archers.

You get misfires as often as you get 10 shots, or 8 shots, or 2 shots. The reason why you average 5 shots, and not 6, is because the misfire is already taken into account.
Monster Reaction is all that bad for them, 1-2 stupid (which with cold blood and a general pretty much is just immune to psych), 3-4 is unbreakable and park and shoot (again, not bad for a razordon unit), and 5-6 is frenzy and hate, and can't lose frenzy.
So 1 result you mitigate, another anchors your center, and the last makes them total monsters in combat.
I've yet to fail a monster reaction test.

They are neither cheap artillery or expensive archers. They are more effective in combat than shooting. They do want to be near a general for leadership but they very effectively thin a unit before finishing it in combat. The game have no other unit with good leadership (cold blooded and Ld9 or 10 general) with decent shooting (S4) and decent melee ability (S5 stomp, and handlers).
Like a lot of new lizardmen units, you need to use more than one of their aspects to make them pay off.

I like it, I will have to try it out. When the model first dropped I got 4 of them, painted them up, then shelved them. I'll have to bust then out for a triumphant return, coupled with the new Bastiladon they could prove quite a formidable foe.

But does that armor piercing count in combat? And does that also spread to the handlers?

I know reaper makes some dinosaur miniatures... or at least sells them. Might be able to find a razordon substitute for 8-10 dollars.

Polacanthus dinosaur model would be perfect, only one I saw was 14.4 cm x 4.7 cm (so closer to a monster sized base...)

TanKoL wrote:
leadbelchers fire 3.5 missiles per ogre
razordons fire 5 missles per beast
that's pretty much 50% more

Leads can't misfire. Ever. If Razors do they can become essentially a non-ranged troop. Razors shoot quicker but leadies at longer range and with AP. I believe the Belcher is a better combatant and certainly is factoring in cost. If they were nothing but their gun/tail profile and never had to fight non shooting, it would be the same.

They aren't always going to have LD. They are the primary shooty guys in an army of skull crackers. I guess it's feasible to make a lot of great bows and skinks and laser guns, but it's probably inferior to buffed saurus who limit shooting options.

Razordon are way worse in CC. They are a ton more than Kroxigors or even Maneaters all buffed out and are as expensive as Mournfang Cavalry to give you their peer group. If they aren't getting some kills in via shooting, they are horrendously overpriced.

 DukeRustfield wrote:

TanKoL wrote:
leadbelchers fire 3.5 missiles per ogre
razordons fire 5 missles per beast
that's pretty much 50% more

Leads can't misfire. Ever. If Razors do they can become essentially a non-ranged troop. Razors shoot quicker but leadies at longer range and with AP. I believe the Belcher is a better combatant and certainly is factoring in cost. If they were nothing but their gun/tail profile and never had to fight non shooting, it would be the same.

They aren't always going to have LD. They are the primary shooty guys in an army of skull crackers. I guess it's feasible to make a lot of great bows and skinks and laser guns, but it's probably inferior to buffed saurus who limit shooting options.

Razordon are way worse in CC. They are a ton more than Kroxigors or even Maneaters all buffed out and are as expensive as Mournfang Cavalry to give you their peer group. If they aren't getting some kills in via shooting, they are horrendously overpriced.

With a unit of 6, on average you get 1 guy misfiring, and 5 guys throwing out 30 shots.
8 leads toss out ~31 shots.

Run the math on combat, Razordons win. Head to head, or against T3, T4 or T5 opponents. At worst they break even, against most they win by 1 or 2 wounds; and they are going it at Init 4 instead of Init 2.
Maneaters with brace of pistols are a better comparison, but in that match up, you're trading shooting power for more combat.
I've run the Razors against ogres, and it doesn't go well for the maneaters. Skirmish + handler save leaves the razors nearly immune to the shooting (taking ~1 wound a turn). Return fire is doing ~5 wounds, at long range. Two volleys and a stand and fire killed 4 maneaters. Init 4 killed the last two before they swung.

Leadership isn't an issue either. Park them in the center of your battle line. They fight well enough to hold the center and let you thin down what's coming at you. Combined with spear saurus, it makes for a good "move forward slightly and take receive the charge" battle plan. Lizard chaff is some of the best in the game and by mid game, I typically have my flank support swinging back toward the center of the fights.
Mounfang isn't a huge issue, as I pointed out, the lizards are playing best with lore of metal.

So yes, in one paragraph you just said razordons beat Leadbelchers, Maneaters, and Mournfang.

There's nothing really to add. If anything in the game is that good there is no reason whatsoever to not buy as many as you can possibly buy and use them.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
So yes, in one paragraph you just said razordons beat Leadbelchers, Maneaters, and Mournfang.

There's nothing really to add. If anything in the game is that good there is no reason whatsoever to not buy as many as you can possibly buy and use them.

Or I said:

Mournfang isn't a huge issue, as I pointed out, the lizards are playing best with lore of metal.

Lore of metal beats mournfangs. Razordons beat up ogres; init 4 is awesome.

-Matt

Almost as cool as 3 S4 A and impact hits.

I think Razors are nice and all but they don't have lore of metal. This tends to happen sometimes when people compare units. You say, well X can be stopped by Y, and you go but Z stops Y, and after three more sentences you find that 2000 pts of units can totally beat the crap out of 500 pts. Yes, a Slann + TG + Razordon are way better than Mournfang. And we can make a whole battle report that won't really show much.

They are a good elite ranged unit. Of which there are like...I don't know, 3 in the entire game. They aren't Hellblasters, that's for sure. They're better than DoC Flamers. I don't like them as much as Leadies. YMMV.

 DukeRustfield wrote:
Almost as cool as 3 S4 A and impact hits.

I think Razors are nice and all but they don't have lore of metal. This tends to happen sometimes when people compare units. You say, well X can be stopped by Y, and you go but Z stops Y, and after three more sentences you find that 2000 pts of units can totally beat the crap out of 500 pts. Yes, a Slann + TG + Razordon are way better than Mournfang. And we can make a whole battle report that won't really show much.

They are a good elite ranged unit. Of which there are like...I don't know, 3 in the entire game. They aren't Hellblasters, that's for sure. They're better than DoC Flamers. I don't like them as much as Leadies. YMMV.

It's 2 S5 and another 3 or 4 S3 attacks. For Belchers to get impact hits, they are giving up D6 S4 armor piercing shots. Slow to fire really knocks leads, they don't want to take a charge.

You brought up the unit by unit comparisons, I just said they mesh well with the lizardmen army. If you want to look at mournfangs, you'll see that leadbeltchers really suck against those as well.
I like leads in an ogre army, supported with iron blasters and ironguts, leads can flee charges and let the gutstar take the charge.
If ogres could get lore of metal, I'd like leads more.