Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Alright, so I just made a few transactions and got quite a bit of guard. My list is based on what I am going to get, as well as a couple easy additions. Here is the list:

EDIT: I am editing my original list (Second list) and adding this one (NEW LIST):

(NEW LIST)
Total: 1850
HQ:
Company Command Squad, Astropath, Master of Ordanance: 110pts

Troops:
Veteran Squad, 3 meltagun (Vendetta) 100
Veteran Squad, 3 meltagun (Vendetta) 100
Veteran Squad, 3 meltagun (Vendetta) 100
Veteran Squad, 3 Flamer, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 140
Veteran Squad, 3 Flamer, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 140
Veteran Squad, 2Flamer, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 135


Elites:
Guardsman Marbo: 65

Fast Attack:
Vendetta Gunship (3x TL lascannons): 130
Vendetta Gunship (3x TL lascannons): 130
Vendetta Gunship(3x TL lascannons: 130

Heavy Support:
Manticore: 160
Manticore: 160
2 Basilisk: 250

Plan: The astropath is so the 3 vendettas with 3 meltaguard each can arrive as soon as possible. Once arrived, the vendettas will charge forward far enough to drop the squad either the first turn it arrives or the turn after, then each will engage in the targets I need taken down (the reason they are not squandered is so they can all shoot at different targets and the meltavets can arrive where each needs to). Once the vets land they pop armor lol. The Chimeras will form a wall around the artillery. The Chimera Flamer Vets will get out and set up so that troops wont advance toward weapon range of the artilery without getting toasted and tied up in close combat as a last resort (if this is the case, I would happily risk wiping out my flamer squad to protect my artilery. Guardsman Marbo will suicide bomb a 8str ap2 large blast anywhere I need him to on turn 2 when he arrives from reserves. The remaining artillery and Master of Ordnance hiding behind terrain and chimera will hammer the enemy into a pulp.

_______________________________________________________________



SECOND (ORIGINAL LIST):
Total: 1850
HQ:
Company Command Squad, Astropath, Master of Ordanance: 110pts

Troops:
Veteran Squad, 3 Grenade Launchers, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 140
Veteran Squad, 3 Grenade Launchers, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 140
Veteran Squad, 3 Grenade Launchers, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 140
Veteran Squad, 3 Grenade Launchers, (Chimera Multilaser/ Heavy Bolter): 140
Veteran Squad, 3 meltaguns (vendettas): 100
Veteran Squad, 3 meltaguns (vendettas): 100


Elites:
Guardsman Marbo: 65
Stormtrooper Squad: 85

Fast Attack:
Vendetta Gunship: 130
Vendetta Gunship: 130

Heavy Support:
Manticore: 160
Manticore: 160
2 Basilisk: 250


The plan: Again, the astropath is there so everything arrives fast from reserves. The vendetta and meltavets do the same thing. Again, the Chimera form a wall around the artillery. This list has an addition two veteran squads, but all 5 of the non meltavets are grenade launchers this time, I figured 5 points a model to upgrade to a Str 6 AP4 weapon was good considering they have BS4, and they could always us the str 3 ap 6 blast on hordes. Guardsman marbo is still a str 8 ap2 large blast anywhere on turn 2. And the artillery do the same thing.


So, how do these lists look? Either of them competitive? Any advice for using these since it is my first time playing guard? Any advice of alternatives?

Edited for clarity

Not sure if its competetive, but it seems fun.
I would definetly ditch the heavy flamers, they are not worth the points, just take another flamer. That will save you 75pts.
Also, get some meltas and maybe you would like to use the vendettas to transport melta or flamer vets.
You will never use 2x heavy flamers on a chimera, get multi lasers instead.
And whats the point of that mortar squad?

Archilus wrote:
Not sure if its competetive, but it seems fun.
I would definetly ditch the heavy flamers, they are not worth the points, just take another flamer. That will save you 75pts.
Also, get some meltas and maybe you would like to use the vendettas to transport melta or flamer vets.
You will never use 2x heavy flamers on a chimera, get multi lasers instead.
And whats the point of that mortar squad?

You know, I was thinking of the same thing myself, but I am super scared of grav drop insertion, how should I get around this?
I'm glad you think that about the multi laster, the chimeras I am getting have a multilaser but I've never used them AND I READ THE WRONG DESCRIPTION! THEY ARE MUCH BETTER THAN I THOUGHT! God for some reason I thought they were lasguns with 36" range. Wow those are actually pretty good. I'll edit my post for an alternative list.

Not sure about grav-shute insertion, since I don´t play flyers, but it seems like a waste to not use Vendetta´s transport capabillities.

Archilus wrote:
Not sure about grav-shute insertion, since I don´t play flyers, but it seems like a waste to not use Vendetta´s transport capabillities.

FIrst! I did a huge update on my original post, and there are two different lists.

Secondly: Grav shute insertion is this:
"If a Valkyrie or Vendetta has moved more than 6 inches (it should, because if it flies between 18 and 36 inches things without skyfire can only hit it if they roll six), passengers may still disembark, but they must do so as follows. Nominate any point over which the Valkyrie or Vendetta moved that turn and deploy the unit as if it were deep striking onto that point. If the unit scatters, every model must immediately take a dangerous terrain test. If ANY of the models cannot be deployed, the unit is destroyed."

So either your flier will get destroyed (definitely a no-no, unless you REALLY need those meltavets to drop or for some reason your opponent does not have any weapons with a strength of 6 or higher in range of the valkyrie) OR if your meltavets arrive by deep strike and get a mishap, they all die.

I would prefer to gamble with the second over the first, but neither are optimal, if you get lucky you could chose your Valkyrie to move under 6" if nothing Str6 or above is in range.

I guess with a 100 point unit, it is a good idea. I really havn't used flying transports before but all the forums hate using the transport portion of fliers (the ones I have read). But with low point guard melta vets, the benefits seem to outweigh the risks, thanks for bringing it up!

This looks much better. One thing I would change is that I would run the chimeras with multilaser/heavy flamer, since they will propably be moving a lot, therefore you will usually fire snap shots from the second weapon. Like this you have a ml when you are far away and flamer when you get closer.

I like hydras too as they are great for flyers, skimmers (Eldar/Tau, SM grav and flyers)

Your second list has 7 troop choices but looks really cool. I am planning an airborne use with little to no heavys. Be 4-6 vendettas and 2-3 Valkyries. Trying to make it fluffy

Archilus wrote:This looks much better. One thing I would change is that I would run the chimeras with multilaser/heavy flamer, since they will propably be moving a lot, therefore you will usually fire snap shots from the second weapon. Like this you have a ml when you are far away and flamer when you get closer.

They wont be moving too often, they are forming a wall around the artillery.

Eiluj The Farseer wrote:I like hydras too as they are great for flyers, skimmers (Eldar/Tau, SM grav and flyers)

Since I have the Vendettas, I shouldn't need any hydras. 3 TL lascannons each is pretty good anti air.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 GreenWarMachine wrote:
Your second list has 7 troop choices but looks really cool. I am planning an airborne use with little to no heavys. Be 4-6 vendettas and 2-3 Valkyries. Trying to make it fluffy

Oh my! I did! I have never ran into that problem with my space marines so I just never count! Haha, thanks for pointing that out. Swapped the vets without any transport with some storm troopers.

The tip with fliers is to get your troops on the ground ASAP. Don't fly them around for too long, or they'll get popped and lose your entire squad.

And just my 2 cents, I've never had any luck with the MoO, every time I use him the blast scatters off into terrain. I'd also drop the astropath, and give your command squad a Chimera, just for some protection and make them harder to kill, thus not giving your opponent an easy slay the warlord point.

zeke48 wrote:
The tip with fliers is to get your troops on the ground ASAP. Don't fly them around for too long, or they'll get popped and lose your entire squad.

And just my 2 cents, I've never had any luck with the MoO, every time I use him the blast scatters off into terrain. I'd also drop the astropath, and give your command squad a Chimera, just for some protection and make them harder to kill, thus not giving your opponent an easy slay the warlord point.

Great advice with the fliers, I'd want to get the meltavets down as soon as possible anyway so they can pop some AV.

Though I must disagree with getting rid of the MoO and asropath. The trick I have found with blasts is to spam them. And the astropath really sets my mind at ease with the vendettas and Marbo arriving when I need them. And I should have specified that the command squad will be sitting behind the wall of chimeras safe with the artillery since the MoO doesn't need line of sight. It may not be well aimed, but a random basilisk shot is nice.

Question: if you have a unit in a flyer can you disembark them before moving the flyer and they still scatter?


Also instead of going with stormtroopers could turn those points into an infrantry platoon and bubble wrap your artillery.

You probably do not need to disembark the Vets ASAP, as 3 Vendettas should be able to take out key vehicles (barring Land Raiders) in 2ish turns. I would aim for a turn 3 disembark with them, assuming they have targets left.

I would consider taking Plasmaguns instead on one Flamer and one Melta unit. You will have more versatility at this point.

I love the list though, it's great!

GreenWarMachine wrote:Question: if you have a unit in a flyer can you disembark them before moving the flyer and they still scatter?


Also instead of going with stormtroopers could turn those points into an infrantry platoon and bubble wrap your artillery.

Holt crap you are right about that point. The unit can disembark and THEN the transport can move as if it is no longer a transport. The models don't suffer any penalties.

Gorgosaurusrex wrote:You probably do not need to disembark the Vets ASAP, as 3 Vendettas should be able to take out key vehicles (barring Land Raiders) in 2ish turns. I would aim for a turn 3 disembark with them, assuming they have targets left.

I would consider taking Plasmaguns instead on one Flamer and one Melta unit. You will have more versatility at this point.

I love the list though, it's great!

I know I do not need to disembark them immediately, I am really just counting on them as a clean-up crew for what the vendettas couldn't or didn't get. I am getting a couple squads worth of plasma vets, so I will definitely give the plasma a try.

Plasmas are a good idea. I usually run las/plas veterans.


Btw:Here is one of my IG lists, if you are interested.
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/558184.page

Edit: Fixed the link

Also could give the vets the grenadier specialization and plasma, increase in their armor save could be a plus in the event of Gets Hot!.

 GreenWarMachine wrote:
Also could give the vets the grenadier specialization and plasma, increase in their armor save could be a plus in the event of Gets Hot!.

Hmm, I think the plasma is a good idea, though I don't think spending 30 points (on grenadier) is worth it.

The mathhammer: Chance a plasma shot will cause a wound:

Without Grenadier:
1/6 of to hits get hot. (16% of shots)
4/6 of these will wound. (66% of the get hot)
Chance: .1111 (repeating)

With Grenadier:
1/6 of to hits get hot (16% of shots)
3/6 of these will wound. (50% of the get hot)
Chance: .0833 (repeating)

The difference is: .027 (3%)

So for 30 points you can save your vet 3% of the time. Yes, you get better saves from everything else, but I honestly think the 30 points could be better spend elsewhere (since only 3% of the time your vets fire will it ever pay off).

Edited for clarity

I never crunched the mathhammer on it but grenadier is the least used specialization I use is Forward Sentries. I totally pissed off a friend with three squads of vets with forward sentry while in cover with lascannons and melta, one squad included Harker. He only was able to kill 1 guardsman that game and learned that the Medusa should be feared as well.