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I'm curious as to who voted Eldar. Eldar would be unable to win because the final battle against chaos requires the death of all Eldar.

Not sure a victor would ever emerge as the scale of the area involved would never allow one faction to be able to respond to new threats emerging and old ones reinforcing themselves.

Sadly if I had to choose one it would be the nids and thats so terribly depressing and 40k!

Chaos. When the Emperor dies the realms spill forth and consume the galaxy.
First the galaxy, then the universe, then the MULTIVERSE! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Animus wrote:
Chaos. When the Emperor dies the realms spill forth and consume the galaxy.
First the galaxy, then the universe, then the MULTIVERSE! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Or they wink out and die as every warp sensitive organism in the galaxy perishes.

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos. When the Emperor dies the realms spill forth and consume the galaxy.
First the galaxy, then the universe, then the MULTIVERSE! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Or they wink out and die as every warp sensitive organism in the galaxy perishes.

Chaos is extra-galactic, extra universal even. The death of one galaxy wouldn't end them.

Necron or Nids.

Necrons could strand the Nids in this galaxy with their Celesital Orrey, but then that would mean no more planets to conquer...

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos. When the Emperor dies the realms spill forth and consume the galaxy.
First the galaxy, then the universe, then the MULTIVERSE! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Or they wink out and die as every warp sensitive organism in the galaxy perishes.

Chaos is extra-galactic, extra universal even. The death of one galaxy wouldn't end them.

Please show me the evidence that Chaos exists out of the milky way when there's a great deal of evidence that Chaos as we know it was formed primarily by humanity and the Eldar.

Chaos...as long as war remains a thing they always win...

 Kain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Daemons are the most likely.

Chaos dies if emotional/warp sensitive life dies. The Tau, Necrons, and Tyranids can accomplish this.

If the Chaos gods ever felt truly threatened by one faction in the Galaxy wiping out all the others, that faction would quickly cease to exist.

None of them, because in the grim darkness of the 41st millennium there is only war, so no faction can possibly win as that would end the war.

Which is why Chaos wins.

Chaos has already won, is the point. They, along with I guess the Orks, are the only faction in the Galaxy that completely benefits from the current status quo. Unlike the Orks however, Chaos is the only faction that actually has the power to keep the status quo as it is.

Chuck Norris wins ... nuff said.

I think the C'Tan got this. some day a big enough fleet will hit Sol and will destroy mars, letting the void dragon out. or barring that due to possible sharding of the VD, someone opens the Outsiders cage.
Non Gods id say necrons, they have tomb worlds almost everywhere and i dont see the biggest nid fleet beating even 10 world engines.

In-universe, my vote goes to the Tyranids: as they are, as of the current setting, the only species thatlaunched three massive invasion into the milky way that wreck untold carnage, in less than 300 years as a singular unity. Such frequency can probably only be matched by the Greenskins; and yet, the Tyranids are far more organised and having a far more diversified strategy (infiltration & covert ops, assassination & sabotage, and even brute intrusion). If they keep up the pace, all species close to the eastern fringe will surely fall prey to the Great Devourer.

But since very little of the Tyranids is known outside of the galaxy, their future movement is unpredictable; should they fail to mount another such massive assault within a millennium, they are probably over-stretched by the three invasions. In which case my vote goes to Chaos, not for merit, but for the fact that, the only other candidate, the Greenskins, have no stomach for inter-galactic dominance (it's all about the fightin', accordingly).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

IssacClarkeisBatman99 wrote:
I think the C'Tan got this. some day a big enough fleet will hit Sol and will destroy mars, letting the void dragon out. or barring that due to possible sharding of the VD, someone opens the Outsiders cage.
Non Gods id say necrons, they have tomb worlds almost everywhere and i dont see the biggest nid fleet beating even 10 world engines.

Yeah... C'Tan got reconn'd, but for a few rare cases that are masked in ambiguity (such as the Void Dragon), all other C'tans are but shards now. More importantly, it's unlikely under the current settings the Necrons will ever ally with the (very few) surviving C'Tans again.

Since the current agendas of the Necrons are (depending on which Necron Lord you ask) waiting for a suitable species to be their souls' new hosts, or to kill everything out of hatred, galactic dominance is probably not going to happen to them.

Sadly, I'll have to say 'nids...

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 Kain wrote:

 BlaxicanX wrote:
Daemons are the most likely.

Chaos dies if emotional/warp sensitive life dies. The Tau, Necrons, and Tyranids can accomplish this.

If the Chaos gods ever felt truly threatened by one faction in the Galaxy wiping out all the others, that faction would quickly cease to exist.

You mean like how they made the Emperor stop existing by waving their hands right?

Or how they totally mind control everyone to follow their principles right?

Or how they totally destroyed the Necrons and their warp blocking tech right?

Or how there is *totally* conclusive evidence about Chaos existing outside the galaxy right?

Or how your proof is so conclusive that Chaos is clearly leading in the polls right?

I remember reading that the current nid presence in the galaxy is only the first tendrils of the approaching swarm, testing the galaxy for weak points before the main mass arrives.

Poly Ranger wrote:
I remember reading that the current nid presence in the galaxy is only the first tendrils of the approaching swarm, testing the galaxy for weak points before the main mass arrives.

The "fingers" of a "hand", I think. That's a lot of bugs....

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos. When the Emperor dies the realms spill forth and consume the galaxy.
First the galaxy, then the universe, then the MULTIVERSE! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Or they wink out and die as every warp sensitive organism in the galaxy perishes.

Chaos is extra-galactic, extra universal even. The death of one galaxy wouldn't end them.

Please show me the evidence that Chaos exists out of the milky way when there's a great deal of evidence that Chaos as we know it was formed primarily by humanity and the Eldar.

In Dead Sky, Black Sun it's revealed that Khorne has had entire galaxies butchered.

Awful knowledge flooded Uriel as he stared into the portal opened in the fabric of the universe. He saw galaxies of billions upon billions of souls harvested and fed to the Lord of Skulls, the Blood God.
‘Emperor’s mercy,’ wept Uriel as he felt each of these deaths lodge like a splinter in his heart. New life and new purpose had once filled these galaxies, but now all was death, slaughtered to sate the hunger of the Blood God…

In the daemons codex we have Nurgle creating every plague in the universe and Tzeentch listening to the hopes of everything in the universe. We have dimensional travel in Fantasy and 40k too.

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:
Chaos. When the Emperor dies the realms spill forth and consume the galaxy.
First the galaxy, then the universe, then the MULTIVERSE! BWHAHAHAHAHA!

Or they wink out and die as every warp sensitive organism in the galaxy perishes.

Chaos is extra-galactic, extra universal even. The death of one galaxy wouldn't end them.

Please show me the evidence that Chaos exists out of the milky way when there's a great deal of evidence that Chaos as we know it was formed primarily by humanity and the Eldar.

In Dead Sky, Black Sun it's revealed that Khorne has had entire galaxies butchered.

Awful knowledge flooded Uriel as he stared into the portal opened in the fabric of the universe. He saw galaxies of billions upon billions of souls harvested and fed to the Lord of Skulls, the Blood God.
‘Emperor’s mercy,’ wept Uriel as he felt each of these deaths lodge like a splinter in his heart. New life and new purpose had once filled these galaxies, but now all was death, slaughtered to sate the hunger of the Blood God…

In the daemons codex we have Nurgle creating every plague in the universe and Tzeentch listening to the hopes of everything in the universe. We have dimensional travel in Fantasy and 40k too.

Is any of this corroborated by anything and not easily dismissed as simple narrative hyperbole or the Chaos gods screwing with someone?

Especially since the Chaos Gods were born from Humans and Eldar? Who as I recall, exist entirely in this galaxy.

And if your evidence is so conclusive, why is Chaos lagging so far behind in the polls?

sorry, but the necrons are going to rebuild the necontyr empire. as much as I hate to admit that.

 Kain wrote:
Is any of this corroborated by anything and not easily dismissed as simple narrative hyperbole or the Chaos gods screwing with someone?

Is anything ever? Once you start to ignore bits just because you don't like them then the integrity of the setting crumbles. Tyranids eating galaxies? Nah, didn't happen, some of the bugs tried to eat my bagel, but I squashed them right good. Empire of a million worlds? Actually there's just one, the rest is a day dream of the "Emperor's" autistic son. Orks love to fight? They're just messing with us, they enjoy nothing more than quite nights with a cup of tea and their favourite slippers.

 Kain wrote:
Especially since the Chaos Gods were born from Humans and Eldar? Who as I recall, exist entirely in this galaxy.

The origin doesn't mean the end though. You were maybe born in a certain hospital, but I assume that you're not limited to that hospital.

 Kain wrote:
And if your evidence is so conclusive, why is Chaos lagging so far behind in the polls?

People don't know? Or maybe they do and just have different opinions? Argumentum ad populum is any case.

 Kain wrote:
Especially since the Chaos Gods were born from Humans and Eldar? Who as I recall, exist entirely in this galaxy.

Where is it said that the Ruinous Powers were born from Humans? They surely contributed but I've never read that they were the dominant influence. Indeed, it seems extremely unlikely that they were considering that the Ruinous Powers other than Slaanesh were 'born' while humanity was still confined to a single planet.

Currently Tyranids.

If the Orks ever get their messiah or if Ghaz proves to be it and keeps growing...? They will annihilate or enslave every other being in the galaxy. As already discussed many times, the ork is the most perfectly designed warrior race in the galaxy, superseding the inherent flaws in tyranid biomorphs or necron warriors by a massive measure.

The only (and very significant) thing preventing their conquest is a lack of unity, if however something's been programmed into them by the old ones, or a waaagh should start that just continues to snowball instead of peter out... the rest of the galaxy can kiss it's ass goodbye.

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Is any of this corroborated by anything and not easily dismissed as simple narrative hyperbole or the Chaos gods screwing with someone?

Is anything ever? Once you start to ignore bits just because you don't like them then the integrity of the setting crumbles. Tyranids eating galaxies? Nah, didn't happen, some of the bugs tried to eat my bagel, but I squashed them right good. Empire of a million worlds? Actually there's just one, the rest is a day dream of the "Emperor's" autistic son. Orks love to fight? They're just messing with us, they enjoy nothing more than quite nights with a cup of tea and their favourite slippers.

 Kain wrote:
Especially since the Chaos Gods were born from Humans and Eldar? Who as I recall, exist entirely in this galaxy.

The origin doesn't mean the end though. You were maybe born in a certain hospital, but I assume that you're not limited to that hospital.

 Kain wrote:
And if your evidence is so conclusive, why is Chaos lagging so far behind in the polls?

People don't know? Or maybe they do and just have different opinions? Argumentum ad populum is any case.

The difference is that all "evidence" of Chaos having a multigalactic presence happens entirely within a select few black library novels and can thus be dismissed more lightly. Which we can almost certainly do as Chaos is known to lie.

Meanwhile direct evidence from studio sources says that the Tyranids have entirely devoured multiple galaxies.

Addittionally, the warp is said to be extremely calm, almost entirely silent in fact, outside where it corresponds to the milky way galaxy.

It's devoid of life and thus devoid of all contributions to the warp, leaving just a blank slate of nothing.

And the reason why I brought it up is that you speak as if your evidence is conclusive, when it's most certainly not.

Chaos is also very much reliant on it's mortal followers, who are less numerous, less well armed, and generally speaking less well trained than their loyalist counterparts, further hampered by Chaos' immensely poor industrial base compared to the Imperium that makes a long term war of attrition with the Imperium suicidal for the forces from the eye of terror.

Without it's mortal followers, the Daemons can do nothing but sit and watch if something came in and swept all life from the galaxy to leave it a silent void.

 Kain wrote:

The difference is that all "evidence" of Chaos having a multigalactic presence happens entirely within a select few black library novels and can thus be dismissed more lightly. Which we can almost certainly do as Chaos is known to lie.

Chaos is multigalactic and multidimensional.

This has been background since the Realm of Chaos books, Slaves and L&D, 20 years ago. It was compounded in the Liber Chaotica books some time later and has been a continuing theme ever since.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kain wrote:

The difference is that all "evidence" of Chaos having a multigalactic presence happens entirely within a select few black library novels and can thus be dismissed more lightly. Which we can almost certainly do as Chaos is known to lie.

Chaos is multigalactic and multidimensional.

This has been background since the Realm of Chaos books, Slaves and L&D, 20 years ago. It was compounded in the Liber Chaotica books some time later and has been a continuing theme ever since.

Multidimensional, but not multigalactic in any conclusive materials I've read or been presented with that cannot be confirmed as not being the lies of gods and daemons who are very well known for being liars.

As for multidimensional, it's is like saying the Combine from half-life could beat the Xeelee because the Combine is in multiple universe while the Xeelee with their "piano wire a galaxy in half" supertech are primarily existent in only one.

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Is any of this corroborated by anything and not easily dismissed as simple narrative hyperbole or the Chaos gods screwing with someone?

Is anything ever? Once you start to ignore bits just because you don't like them then the integrity of the setting crumbles. Tyranids eating galaxies? Nah, didn't happen, some of the bugs tried to eat my bagel, but I squashed them right good. Empire of a million worlds? Actually there's just one, the rest is a day dream of the "Emperor's" autistic son. Orks love to fight? They're just messing with us, they enjoy nothing more than quite nights with a cup of tea and their favourite slippers.

 Kain wrote:
Especially since the Chaos Gods were born from Humans and Eldar? Who as I recall, exist entirely in this galaxy.

The origin doesn't mean the end though. You were maybe born in a certain hospital, but I assume that you're not limited to that hospital.

 Kain wrote:
And if your evidence is so conclusive, why is Chaos lagging so far behind in the polls?

People don't know? Or maybe they do and just have different opinions? Argumentum ad populum is any case.

The difference is that all "evidence" of Chaos having a multigalactic presence happens entirely within a select few black library novels and can thus be dismissed more lightly. Which we can almost certainly do as Chaos is known to lie.

Meanwhile direct evidence from studio sources says that the Tyranids have entirely devoured multiple galaxies.

Addittionally, the warp is said to be extremely calm, almost entirely silent in fact, outside where it corresponds to the milky way galaxy.

It's devoid of life and thus devoid of all contributions to the warp, leaving just a blank slate of nothing.

And the reason why I brought it up is that you speak as if your evidence is conclusive, when it's most certainly not.

Chaos is also very much reliant on it's mortal followers, who are less numerous, less well armed, and generally speaking less well trained than their loyalist counterparts, further hampered by Chaos' immensely poor industrial base compared to the Imperium that makes a long term war of attrition with the Imperium suicidal for the forces from the eye of terror.

Without it's mortal followers, the Daemons can do nothing but sit and watch if something came in and swept all life from the galaxy to leave it a silent void.

It's said outside of Black Library novels, in the daemon codex for instance, that Chaos operates beyond just the galaxy. Even if it didn't then Black Library novels are considered canon too.
Also where is it said that the warp is calm? I know it used to be, but that doesn't really say much about how it is now, and it didn't stop the Old Ones from building a webway through to other galaxies with it. There aren't too many people living between the stars, but the warp isn't calm there.
Even if there is a calmness to it, that doesn't mean that Daemons could not travel through it. Chaos isn't bound by space or time as we know it.

I don't think I speak as if my evidence is any more conclusive than anyone else in the thread, we were asked for our opinions and I'm just giving mine and have ended up explaining why I have them.

Maybe the daemons could do nothing if the galaxy was swept of all mortal life, and maybe no one else could do anything if the warp spills out and consumes the galaxy. I just believe the latter is more likely than the former, as it's said to happen when the Emperor dies, and he just so happens to be in the process of doing that.

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:

Animus wrote:

 Kain wrote:
Is any of this corroborated by anything and not easily dismissed as simple narrative hyperbole or the Chaos gods screwing with someone?

Is anything ever? Once you start to ignore bits just because you don't like them then the integrity of the setting crumbles. Tyranids eating galaxies? Nah, didn't happen, some of the bugs tried to eat my bagel, but I squashed them right good. Empire of a million worlds? Actually there's just one, the rest is a day dream of the "Emperor's" autistic son. Orks love to fight? They're just messing with us, they enjoy nothing more than quite nights with a cup of tea and their favourite slippers.

 Kain wrote:
Especially since the Chaos Gods were born from Humans and Eldar? Who as I recall, exist entirely in this galaxy.

The origin doesn't mean the end though. You were maybe born in a certain hospital, but I assume that you're not limited to that hospital.

 Kain wrote:
And if your evidence is so conclusive, why is Chaos lagging so far behind in the polls?

People don't know? Or maybe they do and just have different opinions? Argumentum ad populum is any case.

The difference is that all "evidence" of Chaos having a multigalactic presence happens entirely within a select few black library novels and can thus be dismissed more lightly. Which we can almost certainly do as Chaos is known to lie.

Meanwhile direct evidence from studio sources says that the Tyranids have entirely devoured multiple galaxies.

Addittionally, the warp is said to be extremely calm, almost entirely silent in fact, outside where it corresponds to the milky way galaxy.

It's devoid of life and thus devoid of all contributions to the warp, leaving just a blank slate of nothing.

And the reason why I brought it up is that you speak as if your evidence is conclusive, when it's most certainly not.

Chaos is also very much reliant on it's mortal followers, who are less numerous, less well armed, and generally speaking less well trained than their loyalist counterparts, further hampered by Chaos' immensely poor industrial base compared to the Imperium that makes a long term war of attrition with the Imperium suicidal for the forces from the eye of terror.

Without it's mortal followers, the Daemons can do nothing but sit and watch if something came in and swept all life from the galaxy to leave it a silent void.

It's said outside of Black Library novels, in the daemon codex for instance, that Chaos operates beyond just the galaxy. Even if it didn't then Black Library novels are considered canon too.
Also where is it said that the warp is calm? I know it used to be, but that doesn't really say much about how it is now, and it didn't stop the Old Ones from building a webway through to other galaxies with it. There aren't too many people living between the stars, but the warp isn't calm there.
Even if there is a calmness to it, that doesn't mean that Daemons could not travel through it. Chaos isn't bound by space or time as we know it.

I don't think I speak as if my evidence is any more conclusive than anyone else in the thread, we were asked for our opinions and I'm just giving mine and have ended up explaining why I have them.

Maybe the daemons could do nothing if the galaxy was swept of all mortal life, and maybe no one else could do anything if the warp spills out and consumes the galaxy. I just believe the latter is more likely than the former, as it's said to happen when the Emperor dies, and he just so happens to be in the process of doing that.

The Emperor is a perpetual and is implied to be able to regenerate like Wolverine if unplugged.

Yeahhhh.

And given the path the Tyranids have taken, virtually every galaxy near the milky way has been eaten, given that they're coming in from virtually every direction.

And what webway channels out the milky way? The Eldar certainly have never taken any, and they're the only ones who regularly use the webway anymore. If they could leave the galaxy, they almost certainly would have and left the humans to their fate.

In any case, the fact that Chaos is so reliant on it's mortal followers, who are as a whole, inferior to the Imperium numerically, strategically, and industrially, makes me dubious that Chaos can win.

And whomever said everyone is entitled to their opinion some centuries back is an idiot.

 Kain wrote:

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

 Kain wrote:

The difference is that all "evidence" of Chaos having a multigalactic presence happens entirely within a select few black library novels and can thus be dismissed more lightly. Which we can almost certainly do as Chaos is known to lie.

Chaos is multigalactic and multidimensional.

This has been background since the Realm of Chaos books, Slaves and L&D, 20 years ago. It was compounded in the Liber Chaotica books some time later and has been a continuing theme ever since.

Multidimensional, but not multigalactic in any conclusive materials I've read or been presented with that cannot be confirmed as not being the lies of gods and daemons who are very well known for being liars.

As for multidimensional, it's is like saying the Combine from half-life could beat the Xeelee because the Combine is in multiple universe while the Xeelee with their "piano wire a galaxy in half" supertech are primarily existent in only one.

Multidimensional and multigalactic, both for a long time in the background, but always in using fairly open terminology a'la 'worshipped on a billion billion worlds, across time and space' etc etc, specifically designed to not pin chaos down because as is always said, it's chaos and there isn't a way to produce conclusive materials for it by it's definition.

As to it's threat, chaos is intended to be the biggest of the big bads, the design team intentionally shifted the threat priority down on both the necrons and the tyranids recently to bring chaos back from limping about in 3rd place in the trinity as it had been for most of 4th into 5th ed, the Tyranids found themselves now subject to weakness and death if their newly awakened hypermetabolism isn't satiated swiftly, also becoming very bad at protracted campaigns against dug in resistance, suffering burn out. The revised Necrons were 'humanized' with personalities (instantly less spooky) and split into numerous warring factions, whilst the star gods were reduced to pokemon ball-housed pets to be released during war or at parties when everyone's drunk too much WD40 and decided it's time to laugh at the deceiver's silly hat again...

Nids still have it for me, as things stand, but with the new weaknesses, far less than they did, and my money would still be on an ork awakening anyway, given time. It's been hinted and alluded to many times that that's what's waiting for the species and that then it's game over for the rest of the galaxy once that occurs.




Then again, we also have the 'possible others' that the tyranids are fleeing from, which would be a whole other level of terror and awe.