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I was thinking about doing some Guardsmen as an ally to my Heresy Salamanders but I don't know what they'd look like. Help?

First off, they wouldn't be Guardsmen - they're Imperial Army not Guard. However, pedantry aside, I'd imagine that their basic set-up would look pretty much like 40K Guardsmen - just a little more archaic. Think of how basic a Heresy Era marine looks next to a 40K marine and apply the same concept to your Imperial Army soldiers. However there would be key differences:

A) Imperial Army Regiments were far better equipped than their 40K counterparts - A range of more advanced vehicles and weapons would be present in most of the regiments - it's only between the Horus Heresy and 41st Millennium that the vast majority of technology has been forgotten or lost. In all likelihood, carapace armour would be far more common than simple flak armour. Additionally, personal weaponry would most likely be of a higher quality than standard Guard issue stuff.

B) Iconography - The idea of venerating the Emperor was a Post-Heresy development. It wasn't present before the Heresy and has gradually increased in importance afterwards. Hence, most Imperial related iconography such as aquilas etc. would be out of place in a regiment fighting in the aftermath of the Great Crusade and the beginning of the Horus Heresy.

C) Ornamentation - This would be the most obvious deviation from what we see in 40K. The core of the Imperial Army was centered around the 'Old Hundred' - roughly one hundred or so regiments that were the re-organised remnants of the forces the Emperor either commanded or fought against during the Unification of Terra. These units were allowed to remain by the express permission of the Emperor and so they were not only very old, but would have carried a great deal of traditions and battle-honours. Hence, due to the Imperial Army having more of an emphasis on regimental pride and history, they would have had a higher degree of ornamentation and each one would have a unique 'flavour'. Of course, as the Great Crusade spread and grew, more Regiments were raised from newly conquered worlds. These regiments may not have had as much history dictating their appearance, but conversely, they would have a unique 'flavour' inherited from their homeworld. So, your regiment, depending on which route you take, will look either very Fire/Salamanders related (If recruited from Nocturne) or would have a distinctly 'Terran' appearance (If recruited from terra as part of the 'Old Hundred')

I know it's a bit of a text wall, but I hope that helps somewhat in getting your creativity going. Forgeworld will probably release an Imperial Army range at some point, but whether you go with them, or convert 40K Guardsmen, due to the Heresy-Era aspect - your Forgeworld bill is gonna get high.

Yeah, pre-HH Imperial Army would look very good.

To add my two cents to Warpig1815's comments.

A) More high-tech stuff for sure! If you look at early 40K, especially the small-scale EPIC army lists you'll see that Imperial Army units were copiously equipped with Rhinos and Land Raiders for example. Fluff-wise it's only during the HH, with all the losses that the Imperials were suffering that the Rhino's and especially Land Raiders were consolidated and deployed solely with Astartes units. Personally, I think Rhinos and LRs will look vèry cool in more 'traditional' military livery and camouflage. Also, Super Heavies were also omnipresent before the HH as the Imperial war industry was churning away like crazy.

B) Yeah, 'venerating' iconography would be out of place and even the humble aquila was also only allowed to be worn by the Emperor's Children. On the other hand, the aquila has become so very, very iconic for the regular troops, that it might be sorely missed if it's not shown here and there, perhaps in more muted military colours. For the rest, I'd go all-out with adding unique regiment elements, -uniforms, and -equipment.

And if you really want to tie them into the Salamanders theme. If I remember correctly, it's semi-canonical that early Salamanders had a very, very dark green colour, even darker than Dark Angels (ref: 1st edition 40K, the first Space Marine paint set etc.), so any dark green colour, with perhaps black as a secondary colour, and white detailing would look very good on Imperial Guard/Army.

I'm really looking forward to seeing some painted stuff, the whole thing got me excited, as I'm very tempted myself to get some IG as allies for my Blood Angels.

Meph wrote: If I remember correctly, it's semi-canonical that early Salamanders had a very, very dark green colour, even darker than Dark Angels

Oooh, that's just given me a great idea actually! I was actually going to set up an IG Regiment myself , descendant from an Imperial Army Regiment (Hence why I chipped in here), based on the Napoleonic Era British Army. As Napoleonic era regiments had a Light and Grenadier company each, I was going to do a force of Storm-troopers and Snipers to complement my own 40K Regiment. Fluff wise, I intended them to have close links with my own Salamanders force, so I've just had an idea regarding how I can explain the colour change from red (The Regiment's main uniform colour) to Rifle Green (The elite sniper unit representing the 95th Rifles) - I can simply say it's in honour of their Great Crusade/Horus Heresy link to the Salamanders.

@OP - Sincere apologies for my minor hijack of your thread here.

I agree with both Warpig and Meph on their points.

-Less IG iconography
-(comparitvely) Better wargear
-More flair


If it were me creating this army the first thing i'd be doing id buying a box of guardsmen and a box of fantasy empire handgunners. A few head swaps and some gun swaps to give them a somewhat archaic feel. The feathers/feathered hats would make a nice addition for a sarge or other officer type or would probably look good just scattered throughout the unit. Of course this would leave you with 10 unarmoured handgunner bodies. This could be problematic as it might detract from the "better equipted' theme (should you end up taking that route).

There's a picture in the "Collected Visions" book drawn by John Blanche that depicts Imperial Army looking very much like Vostroyan Firstborn.

Lexicanum doesn't seem to be working for me at the moment otherwise I would have provided a link.

The only thing about these would be the purity seals. I don't think they were a thing during the Horus Heresy. I could be wrong though.

Victoria Lamb Miniatures might be a good shout at representing what you want the Imperial Army to look like.

 Meph wrote:


And if you really want to tie them into the Salamanders theme. If I remember correctly, it's semi-canonical that early Salamanders had a very, very dark green colour, even darker than Dark Angels (ref: 1st edition 40K, the first Space Marine paint set etc.), so any dark green colour, with perhaps black as a secondary colour, and white detailing would look very good on Imperial Guard/Army.

HH Dark Angels wouldve been Black anyhow. AFAIK They changed their black to the green we know today to seperate themselves from the fallen. Even the Deathwing was black, they changed to the bone white to honour some battle brothers that held some line for some silly amount of time against stupid odds.

So you could probably go with the DA green tbh, it would be the darkest green going at the time of the HH I guess.

Regarding the Dark green, here's a few pictures that kind of show the transition between the colours:

1st Edition gives the Salamanders originally a tiger striped scheme, but it's quickly abandoned in favour of solid colours:




This dark green changes somewhat over the editions, getting gradually lighter in tone, until we see Salamanders how most people (Including myself) paint them in their 40K incarnation. Now, these are, in accordance with Lexicanum's strict rules on only posting GW approved pictures, considered canonical, however they don't tell us in what part of the timeframe - so It's to be assumed that it's all Post-Heresy:




Finally, we see them in their latest shade of green - with Nick Kyme's current Salamanders trilogy:



Unfortunately, Forgeworld's material kind of muddies the water a bit. Rather than have the 1st Edition Black-Green, the green they present in Massacre is somewhat lighter than the semi-canonical (semi-mythical ) Black-Green that is often suggested:



However, they too contradict themselves by presenting Heresy-Era Salamanders in a Dark Green scheme, when they painted some Cataphractii Terminators when they were released:



So, TLDR, to some it up: Salamanders have a very varied colour scheme that has changed a lot over the years. Hence, if you want to base your Imperial Army regiment on 'Salamanders Green', your in for a confusing time. Personally, I'd go with a slightly darker green that the current, as all of the Legions colours seem to be more muted than their modern Chapter equivalents, but I'd ignore the whole Black-Green concept - that seems to be sketchy at best and IMHO, I'd go with the scheme presented in the newer HH material - ie. Massacre.

Thanks to everyone! Would the Imperial Regiments be painted a dark greenish color, like the Salamanders if they were recruited from Nocturne or were fighting with the Salamanders frequently.

I too have had thoughts on a heresy era Imperial Army regiment and going with the collected visions artwork for my reference.

Something else to consider is that the Leman Russ, as so named for the primarch of the Space Wolves, recovered the STC template for this tank chassis around the time of the heresy/pre-heresy, so depending on what time period you are looking to represent you may or may not have access to the Leman Russ tanks. Before this, the Malcador tank was the mainstay of the Imperial Army.

The imperial army is described as each regiment raised was unique to its homeworld, some having little more than boots and a lasgun and primitive warrior weapons (think Kanak skull takers) to extremely advanced regiments with carapace, jump packs, etc (think entire regiments of Storm Troopers).

+++DATA ENTRY DEEMED CORRUPT, REMOVED BY ORDER OF INQUISITION+++

Something else to consider is that Imperial Army detachments were often placed under the command of a single Astartes. I think the easiest way to represent this stat-wise would be modeling a salamander marine as a stand in for Straken (toughness 4, armor save of 3+, etc).

Another thing is that early in the heresy the standard weapon of the Imperial Army was the autogun, the lasgun did not come into common use until again midway through the heresy.

Another thought on this is that since your army would be supporting the Salamanders and they are known for their artificier armor and weapons, you could get away with doing a particularly ornate army... Think siege guns with carved barrels. Vostroyans with the Aquila removed would be a great starting point if you wanted to work with metal figures (I know a lot of people do not like modifying metal figures as it tends to be more difficult).

Here is something I did a while back for an ornate siege gun...

@commissarbob - One note that I would make is that the warhammer wikia is not a good place to find canonical information, nor would I quote one of it's passages as though it were canon. Whilst it is getting better (or so I am told ), Lexicanum far outstrips it in terms of accuracy, if not quantity of information. It has been known for (many) articles on the 40K Wikia to be articles of pure fanfic, or be heavily fanfic edited and none of the articles I've come across (I used to read it before I realised Lexicanum was more accurate) have any direct citations to official GW material. On a subject such as the Imperial Army - a topic that hasn't, to my knowledge, been heavily covered outside of HH books and possibly some 1st Edition stuff), any fluff from the 40K Wikia would be highly suspect in my opinion. Just be cautious in your belief of such 'fluff'. For example, I've never heard of, and nor has Lexicanum it seems, of 'Geno Seven-Six Spartocid'. Supposedly, the 40K wikia describes them as:

40K Wikia wrote:Wore 'greek-style' corinthian helmets with large helmet crest (crest length equaled seniority of rank); cloaks worn over mismatched Carapace Armour

To me, this just sounds like the blatant fan-fic of somebody trying to insert their own Spartan style Imperial Army regiment into the official 40K fluff. I'm not saying all of the article is rubbish, because there are bits that are canon such as the Therion Cohort, Geno-Five-Two-Chilead and Lucifer Blacks, but there's a whole difference in what the 40K Wikia says is truth, and what actual is official GW/BL/FW material.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Army#.UmLGWfkjL4Q

Here's the link from Lexicanum that I was talking about.

Somebody on this blog had painted up some Vostroyans in green and they looked awesome.

Tale of Painters blog - http://taleofpainters.blogspot.co.uk/2010/04/vostroyans-hq-showcase.html

Thank You for the links, forewarnings, pictures, information, and the all around excitement to get me really thinking about it! Green Vostroyans.....I like it.... ALSO, I love GW's range but it seems rather limited, is there any other company that makes Vostroyan looking models?

IIRC the IA looks more like elysians than modern guardsman.

@Feasible - I'm not sure of any sci-fi third party Vostroyan looking stuff, but I reckon any 28mm Russian Cossack range would fit. Perry miniatures do a 28mm white metal Cossack range, however they're all mounted figures and the proportions may not fit 40k minis.