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 evildrcheese wrote:
I have costed it up yet but I Think a mix of large durable units and small to mediumsized units eith a significant mech element is he way to go. I haven't priced it up yet but I'm toying with 2x5 bss, 1x10 bss and 1x20 bss. MM immos for the t's, a rhino for the 10 and the 20 will be foot slogging, might still buy a immo for them purely as an additional tl mm. Thoughts?

That's what I'm trying, basically, except 2x5 BSS in Immos, 1x20 blob behind aegis.

A 20 man group must run up the field, eating fire the whole way. Put the priest in the back and he's vulnerable to deep strikers and fast skimmers. Put him in the middle and you only have to shoot maybe 7-10 models to get to him. Since he's a character, in assault he MUST attempt to get into base contact. In most cases that's not a big deal, you can put the wounds on the sisters first. But it's a precarious place to be in and, again, he's WS3 T3 I3 W1.

The priest is an IC. You can LoS the shots off the priest 5/6 of the time to the sisters around him.

 labmouse42 wrote:

A 20 man group must run up the field, eating fire the whole way. Put the priest in the back and he's vulnerable to deep strikers and fast skimmers. Put him in the middle and you only have to shoot maybe 7-10 models to get to him. Since he's a character, in assault he MUST attempt to get into base contact. In most cases that's not a big deal, you can put the wounds on the sisters first. But it's a precarious place to be in and, again, he's WS3 T3 I3 W1.

The priest is an IC. You can LoS the shots off the priest 5/6 of the time to the sisters around him.

Yeah, not being an upgrade is a bonus. You don't have to run up the field. I would use my 20 man as my home/middle range blob. Put him in the middle and LOS away wounds. Decline challenges and run Hymns of War.

I just made up a small detachment list for my Ultras.

It is just scary how much you can add for less than 400 points!

Cannoness w/ rosarius, book and bolter
MSU BSS w/ VSS, combi-Flamer, Flamer, heavy Flamer
Immolator (flavor to taste, mine has the flamers and a Laud Hailer!)
Organ of doom

That is 4 flame templates, one of which is twin linked, and a S8AP1 heavy D6 tank. Oh, and everyone auto passes moral tests, tests on a leadership 10 and re-rolls failed AoF rolls. Very excited about this! Since the above only comes out to 370 points, you could throw in a priest, but then you'd have to run a rhino instead of the Immolator. I'm really thinking that this will be my standard attachment. It would be really good at protecting my back line.

One thing I'm running into though...Rhinos or Immolators? Immolators give me some good Dakka, but Rhinos mean I don't actually have to get out of the vehicle to shoot. What are your thoughts on this?

 pretre wrote:
Yeah, not being an upgrade is a bonus. You don't have to run up the field. I would use my 20 man as my home/middle range blob. Put him in the middle and LOS away wounds. Decline challenges and run Hymns of War.

Heck, if you have a sister sergeant in there, you can use her to accept a challange and then hack away with your eviscerator.

The other advantage being an IC gives is the ability to hop from unit to unit. Lets say the BSS squad hes with is whittled down to just 1 sister. He can hop out of that squad and join another squad, keeping his buffing powers on the table while the lone sister runs and sits on an objective.

Great point!

Quo wrote:

Amerikon wrote:

Quo wrote:
A whole lot of stuff

I think you're pretty much in line with most of the other assessments of the new list. Although a leadership nerf there was not. Priests are huge leadership boosts because they're cheap and they give Fearless. Don't wanna pay 10 pts for a VSS? No problem, 25 and your scoring unit is fearless now and has to be shot down to the very last woman.

That right there flips the script for the once lowly BSS. A 20 woman squad went from ridiculous point sink to an immovable object. With War Hymns, that squad is going to be incredibly tough to take out in CC as well. If you take St. Celestine as your warlord you can use her mobility and her Ld bubble to boost your War Hymns rolls at key moments.

If I have to spend 10-25 points to get back to where I was, I'd call it a nerf.

It's 5 points. 5. 10 Battle Sisters with a VSS is 130 as opposed to 125 in the WD list. So feel free to complain about an extra half point per model and call it a "nerf".

Its kinda nice to have the preferred enemy with BSS now. At first I was rather dissapointed at the loss of the auto-rally, but it does make them more killy. Tank-shock the enemy infantry close together then torch them with all the flame you can get. With preferred enemy you can re-roll those non-wounding heavy flamer 1's and get more fried tau out of it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Better for the after-battle-charity-fishfry

I agree. I think the BSS are the only unit whose AoF actually got better.

Just realised War Hymns can only be cast in the at the start of each fight subphase when you're locked in combat so no getting to reroll armour in shooting phase shinanigans. I did think th priests were stupid good so had to re-read! Still 25 points for fearless and great abilities when in combat is good, just not stupid good like I first thought. So withhis in mind I probably won't put a priest in every troop unit but certainly in the mega blob. I think I'm gonna have my blob pushingforward an leave the 10 bss to sit on the home objective.

D

Amerikon wrote:I agree. I think the BSS are the only unit whose AoF actually got better.

I dunno, I think Preferred Enemy is a wash with Reroll ones to hit or Regroup.
I also think that Dominions Act of Faith is about the same with their old one. The reason Doms won out though is the 4 for 5 special they have. 2 for 5, I'd rather have Twin Linked. 4 for 5, ignore cover.

evildrcheese wrote:Just realised War Hymns can only be cast in the at the start of each fight subphase when you're locked in combat so no getting to reroll armour in shooting phase shinanigans. I did think th priests were stupid good so had to re-read! Still 25 points for fearless and great abilities when in combat is good, just not stupid good like I first thought. So withhis in mind I probably won't put a priest in every troop unit but certainly in the mega blob. I think I'm gonna have my blob pushingforward an leave the 10 bss to sit on the home objective.

Yeah, only assault. Don't forget they get Hatred as well, so rerolls on the first round of combat. They are just a great 25 points.

edit: Also, since they have LP/CCW, they have 3 attacks base before the charge. 2 Smash attacks before charge (or counter attack) at S6 is nothing to sneeze at. And they are pretty good for sucking up challenges if you have nothing else since you can just do the reroll Hymn. Keep in mind that Challenges are issued at the start of the Fight Sub-Phase as well, so you could try to get the reroll, if it passed take the challenge, if it fails duck out.

I am going to wait a bit and see if they correct some of the mistakes and formatting issues before buying the codex. So far it looks different not bad. Having a different way to play the army is great and is a breath of fresh air.

I saw a lot of complaining about Priests in the other threads and I am wondering why. Priests had to be one of the most useless and over costed units in the codex going all the way back to the 3ed WH days. I am stoked to see them get a huge make over personally. Best part is you can always model them as females if you worried about "Codex Dirty Old Men"

I do agree with PE and Repentia being a missed opportunity again. You think GW would want to move those particular models as they have never been super popular. Every AS player has a couple of Exo's but how many can field a full squad of PE or Repentia? I have enough Repentia for 2 squads but only because a bought a army deal off a local player. I personally LOVE the PE model but I don't own a single one because they have never been that good. I want to buy and use them but it's too much money for such a lackluster unit.

I also purpose a contest for who can put the most special weapons vs model count competitive list. It looks like we can spam melta's and flamers hardcore now

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
I am going to wait a bit and see if they correct some of the mistakes and formatting issues before buying the codex. So far it looks different not bad. Having a different way to play the army is great and is a breath of fresh air.

The formatting is mostly people using crappy ereader programs. I wouldn't sweat it that much. Looks great in Adobe Digital Editions.

I also purpose a contest for who can put the most special weapons vs model count competitive list. It looks like we can spam melta's and flamers hardcore now

That's easy:

Canoness with SCS (5 girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 240
Canoness with SCS (5 girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 240
5 Dominons (5 Girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo with Laud - 175
5 Dominons (5 Girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo with Laud - 175
5 Dominons (5 Girls, 4 10 pt Specials) in TL-MM Immo with Laud - 175
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140
5 BSS (5 Girls, 2 Specials) in TL-MM Immo - 140

62 Girls, 12 Immolators, 36 Specials (>50%) and 2 Condemnors. 1845.

Not enough Immos, I cried!

 Shandara wrote:
Not enough Immos, I cried!

Yeah, to my great sadness, I only have 4.

When I went from Epub to Adobe, it went from 124 pages to 208. A lot of blank pages with the format change. Is that normal?

 conker249 wrote:
When I went from Epub to Adobe, it went from 124 pages to 208. A lot of blank pages with the format change. Is that normal?

Do you mean epub to PDF?

 pretre wrote:

Amerikon wrote:I agree. I think the BSS are the only unit whose AoF actually got better.

I dunno, I think Preferred Enemy is a wash with Reroll ones to hit or Regroup.
I also think that Dominions Act of Faith is about the same with their old one. The reason Doms won out though is the 4 for 5 special they have. 2 for 5, I'd rather have Twin Linked. 4 for 5, ignore cover.

I agree about the Dominions, but I think the Battle Sisters AoF is certainly a buff over their previous one.

1) I think loss of the regroup ability is not a big deal. The only time it really comes into play is when the unit breaks when under 25% strength. Given now that we only get one shot at each EoF there's a good chance that by the time your Sisters are in such dire straits they've already burned their AoF.

2) PE is actually a fair bit better than just re-rolling to hit. Because Math!

Well I see why someone can plausibly read this in a narrow way, but I think I do not agree with the plausible argument.

Such a limit has always been expressed very clearly in other codex's, in their army entry. The actual explanation of how to READ those entries seems to indicate, in conjunction with the noted asteriks on whether it replaces a weapon or not, that this is not their intent.

So if someone wants to argue that with me, they can. But I am unswayed by this, and am swayed by precedent. I think it's careles wording, but I think it reasonable to surmise that they would not give the Canoness a choice between a holy sword Or... Book of St Lucius. And in neither case allowing her to wear a mantle or cloak? Unlikely.

This actually makes me think that for any BSS with 10+ women it might be worth it to take the Simulacrum.

Amerikon wrote:

 pretre wrote:

Amerikon wrote:I agree. I think the BSS are the only unit whose AoF actually got better.

I dunno, I think Preferred Enemy is a wash with Reroll ones to hit or Regroup.
I also think that Dominions Act of Faith is about the same with their old one. The reason Doms won out though is the 4 for 5 special they have. 2 for 5, I'd rather have Twin Linked. 4 for 5, ignore cover.

I agree about the Dominions, but I think the Battle Sisters AoF is certainly a buff over their previous one.

1) I think loss of the regroup ability is not a big deal. The only time it really comes into play is when the unit breaks when under 25% strength. Given now that we only get one shot at each EoF there's a good chance that by the time your Sisters are in such dire straits they've already burned their AoF.

2) PE is actually a fair bit better than just re-rolling to hit. Because Math!

Spoiler:

In the form of (To Hit) * (To Wound) = Expected wounds per shot.

VS T3 - No Buffs
(4/6) * (4/6) = 0.4444

VS T3 - Reroll To Hit
(7/9) * (4/6) = 0.5185

VS T3 - Preferred Enemy
(7/9) * (7/9) = 0.6049

============================================================

VS T4 - No Buffs
(4/6) * (3/6) = 0.3333

VS T4 - Reroll To Hit
(7/9) * (3/6) = 0.3889

VS T4 - Preferred Enemy
(7/9) * (7/12) = 0.4537

============================================================

VS T5 - No Buffs
(4/6) * (2/6) = 0.2222

VS T5 - Reroll To Hit
(7/9) * (2/6) = 0.2593

VS T5 - Preferred Enemy
(7/9 * (7/18) = 0.3025

============================================================

VS T6 - No Buffs
(4/6) * (1/6) = 0.1111

VS T6 - Reroll To Hit
(7/9) * (1/6) = 0.1296

VS T6 - Preferred Enemy
(7/9) * (7/36) = 0.1512

============================================================

If you've made it this far, you may have noticed a pattern. The probability of scoring the necessary result is increased by a factor of 7/6 whenever you can re-roll ones.
Preferred Enemy is (7/6)P(H) * (7/6)P(W), so for any given scenario, PE will boost your chances of scoring a wound by a factor of 49/36 or about 1.36 which is a pretty big deal.

Previous one was reroll ones to hit in either Shooting or Assault and regroup. I'm aware PE is better than just rerolling hits (because it works on wounds).

The versatility of the other one was what made it largely a wash, not the pure numbers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:
Well I see why someone can plausibly read this in a narrow way, but I think I do not agree with the plausible argument.

Such a limit has always been expressed very clearly in other codex's, in their army entry. The actual explanation of how to READ those entries seems to indicate, in conjunction with the noted asteriks on whether it replaces a weapon or not, that this is not their intent.

So if someone wants to argue that with me, they can. But I am unswayed by this, and am swayed by precedent. I think it's careles wording, but I think it reasonable to surmise that they would not give the Canoness a choice between a holy sword Or... Book of St Lucius. And in neither case allowing her to wear a mantle or cloak? Unlikely.

Are you still responding to the One relic thing? I think you're gonna need to either ask your TO or wait for a FAQ.

 pretre wrote:
Previous one was reroll ones to hit in either Shooting or Assault and regroup. I'm aware PE is better than just rerolling hits (because it works on wounds).

The versatility of the other one was what made it largely a wash, not the pure numbers.

I don't think I ever used it in the Assault phase. It would be pretty slick if you could get PE in either phase.

Amerikon wrote:

 pretre wrote:
Previous one was reroll ones to hit in either Shooting or Assault and regroup. I'm aware PE is better than just rerolling hits (because it works on wounds).

The versatility of the other one was what made it largely a wash, not the pure numbers.

I don't think I ever used it in the Assault phase. It would be pretty slick if you could get PE in either phase.

Well, with the WD dex it was often feast or famine with faith. I'd be sitting there with only 2 units having any sort of opportunity to use faith and 6 faith points. So I'd be like. Umm, I need to tie that unit up. Okay. Light of the Emperor our bolt pistols yay! and LotE again in Assault yay! It never really did much, but was fun to use and made you feel like you were doing something.

WS3 S3 A1 with reroll 1's really isn't that impressive. lol.

Maybe if it was permanent reroll 1s, but not after having to roll leadership just to get it.

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe if it was permanent reroll 1s, but not after having to roll leadership just to get it.

Wait, what are you talking about? I was talking about the White Dwarf LotE which was reroll ones using the old faith mechanic. The new one is really good even if you have to roll leadership. PE is reroll 1's on Hit and Wound which is awesome.

 pretre wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe if it was permanent reroll 1s, but not after having to roll leadership just to get it.

Wait, what are you talking about? I was talking about the White Dwarf LotE which was reroll ones using the old faith mechanic. The new one is really good even if you have to roll leadership. PE is reroll 1's on Hit and Wound which is awesome.

I'm probably mixing the two rule systems somehow.

 Melissia wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Maybe if it was permanent reroll 1s, but not after having to roll leadership just to get it.

Wait, what are you talking about? I was talking about the White Dwarf LotE which was reroll ones using the old faith mechanic. The new one is really good even if you have to roll leadership. PE is reroll 1's on Hit and Wound which is awesome.

I'm probably mixing the two rule systems somehow.

Yeah.

White Dwarf LotE: Assault or Shooting, reroll 1's to hit. Movement, regroup. 5+ mechanic.
Digidex: Shooting, gain preferred enemy (reroll 1's to hit and wound). Need to make a leadership check.

I think it's largely a wash. Although from a shooting perspective, Digidex LOTE is far better.

I still miss C:WH's stuff, where you had a choice on what to use...

 Melissia wrote:
I still miss C:WH's stuff, where you had a choice on what to use...

I still miss Codex: Chapter Approved stuff where you had a choice on what to use and they were all good choices.

 pretre wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
I still miss C:WH's stuff, where you had a choice on what to use...

I still miss Codex: Chapter Approved stuff where you had a choice on what to use and they were all good choices.

So closer to my fandex then