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The way i used Penitent Engines before (and would again) is to treat them as they were described in the Witch Hunter codex and later this current one: tomb Guardian types.
to put that in non fluff terms: they are reserves there to destroy your deep stikers or keep them busy with a pair of nasty Heavy flamers. For those counting at home, 6 or 7 marines caught in the sights of two heavy flamers is actually quite damaging and will get their attention. That's 8-10 wounds to save against before its charge and while the Marines will indeed get their shot at killing the Engine, failure means a gruesome end. Even if the Powerfist ULTIMATELY kills it, you now have the prospect of a fairly combat ineffective marine units leftovers to contend with and at that range, Sisters won't have to fear them.
So if your intention is to use them as Defensive ends rushing the quarterback, forget about it. But if you use them like Linebackers that OCCASSIONALLY blitz, you have the right idea. In that role, they can do SO much damage. With cover behind Rhinos or in cover, they will most likely be a drain on enemy fire and if there's only one of them, MAYBE two in the force they drop in priority, making them even better at their jobs.
Jus food for thought as you play with lists. I intend to try every unit out as I did before and see what happens.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
war wrote: I think i'm missing something. Tau IC's can join riptides? I thought that IC's couldn't join single figure units. What lets them join riptides?
If you put a missile drone with it, then it's no longer a one-model-only unit, which skirts that requirement, letting you take say, an ecm commander for bs5 drones, ignores cover, enrolls and such.
I really wish drone upgrades would get treated as Wargear again just to solve that issue. Plus the darned thing is -still- an MC and has restrictions on what it can be a "unit" with. Just look at Tyrant Guard who need a special rule to get around that.
But, the only upside to this is if he runs a drone and adds an IC, the majority toughness should drop to 4, making it easier to wound the riptide, should it not? Also, if the drone is killed, does that then instantly separate the riptide from the IC?
astro_nomicon wrote: Ok so I'm really trying to get it but I don't: Why are Priests the auto include everyone has made them to seem? The War Hymns are great but ONLY in the assault phase which is something that it seems SoB should avoid like the plague. Not to mention the fact that almost all of 40K steers away from. What am I missing??
They also make the unit fearless and have hatred. I'm not sold on them for MSU builds, but for blob builds they are amazing. Remember how people used to think about guard blobs with power axes? The sister blobs are like that, only better.
Litanies! If you're taking a foot mob, I would recommend fitting in Jacobus somewhere as well. Also, why the 5 girl squads without rides? they are going to die horribly. I think one big squad of 20 is more than enough. YOu put all five priests and Jacobus in there and just.
If you take Celestine, your blob also has hit and run, and can use LD 10 for Hymns. That turns them from LD of 7 (58.33% success) to LD 10 (91.66% success).
You also want to to take Jacobus to make any squads within 12" fearless. Since fearless confers to the unit, a single model within 12" will many any other sister blobs within 12" fearless.
SoB spam becomes a lot more viable with the priest posse' and Celestine bouncing from squad to squad to wreak havoc wherever they need to be and making every sister nearby fearless.
On the subject of Celestine. If you have a priest chanting Emperor protects, she gets a 2+ rerollable save -- or is basically invulnerable to any weapon AP3 or worse. If your squad is attacked by 20 khorne dogs, take every hit on her and you probably won't take a single wound.
On the subject of Hymns. Stacking them with other buffs is extremely good. 20 sisters w/hatred, Righteousness, and Blessed Standard go from doing 2.22 wounds to khorne dogs to doing 11 wounds. That's a 500% increase. That's before you have the priests eviscerators or Celestine.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2013/10/29 12:05:22
Shandara wrote: The drones from the Riptide have higher Toughness themselves I believe.
I can't double check from here, but I did not think that was the case. When the codex first came out, I showed that to my Tau opponent and told him he better not field two drones or his riptide becomes T4. I could not find a rule negating the majority rule. However, there could be something I missed.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/29 12:05:00
Shandara wrote: The drones from the Riptide have higher Toughness themselves I believe.
I can't double check from here, but I did not think that was the case. When the codex first came out, I showed that to my Tau opponent and told him he better not field two drones or his riptide becomes T4. I could not find a rule negating the majority rule. However, there could be something I missed.
Shielded missile drones (the riptide-only ones) are T6.
Has anyone considered the AV13 wall using repressors? It'd be nice to see if that can work at all with the MSU sisters enabling more of them, but so many less TLMM than immo spam...
I collect:
Guard - 2k of mostly infantry
DA - 2k of deathwing, 2k of other bits (no vehicles)
Sisters - mostly converted/proxy because I'm waiting for therange to go plastic.
Tau - 2k with no riptides because I can.
Voldrak wrote:I have been thinking on ways to make Uriah work without sending him forward.
Aegis Defensive line and quad gun for the Exorcists.
10 retributors with 4 heavy bolters and a simulacrum sitting behind that line as well.
Stick Uriah behind the line with the Retributors.
Do the same thing with a bastion. Put an SOB squad on the roof. Put Uriah inside with the Rets. Increases his fearless/counter-attack bubble. We talked about it a couple days back here.
Melissia wrote:Pretre, what's your opinion on which kind of power weapon you'd equip an SCS countercharge unit with?
I don't like the SCS as a countercharge unit, but if I had to Axes would be the way to go (as Voldrak said). You already swing after, so why not go AP1. Get some priests in that unit for extra bodies and AP smashes with rerolls
KalashnikovMarine wrote:So bottom line, how does everyone feel about stealing the D.Angels fighter for use as a stand in Avenger? WYISWYG wise it has the same weapons load out in the chain gun variant. If the Avenger can't take on extra "boom" then the missile pods are decorative. If they can, there's your boom.
Spoiler:
Good idea, there's mine.
So you would put Uriah and all five Priests in the 20 Sisters mob? If I do go that route, I might be better off dropping Celestine to let Jacobus be my Warlord to get the 5++ on my blob unit.
I'm going to run four, uriah and Celestine in a blob in December at a tournament. YOu lose the 5++ but gain a 2+ to tank wounds and I want to see Celestine with rerolls to hit, wounds and armor saves.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
labmouse42 wrote: On the subject of Hymns. Stacking them with other buffs is extremely good. 20 sisters w/hatred, Righteousness, and Blessed Standard go from doing 2.22 wounds to khorne dogs to doing 11 wounds. That's a 500% increase. That's before you have the priests eviscerators or Celestine.
Eviscerators are not worth it when you can already do AP2 most of the time. I'm thinking about power mauls, but that's about it. As to sisters, they get crazy when you reroll everything.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Can we take the Riptide argument elsewhere?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/29 13:57:32
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Amerikon wrote:
So you would put Uriah and all five Priests in the 20 Sisters mob? If I do go that route, I might be better off dropping Celestine to let Jacobus be my Warlord to get the 5++ on my blob unit.
Yeah, that is the same thought process I went through after having played a game and watching Celestine in action. She is still good, but I would rather have the extra invul save for rending and any AP2-3 that flies the blob way.
Amerikon wrote:
Second crack at the 1750 list, from pretre's suggestions:
TROOPS BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 5 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor, MM Immolator
BSS, 20 Women, Heavy Flamer, Flamer, SS w/ Condemnor
FAST ATTACK Dominions, 5 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
Dominions, 5 Women, 4x Meltagun, VSS w/ Combi-Plasma, MM Immolator
HEAVY SUPPORT Retributors, 8 Women, 4x Heavy Bolter, VSS, Simulacrum
Exorcist
Exorcist
It's less "fearless power armor horde" and more "mech plus priest-bomb". I figured I'd throw a bunch of Condemnors in there just to see how it goes. I put two on the priests even though they're BS3. I thought that having a little critical mass in one unit would be handy. Total points looks like 1746. I hate odd numbers like that, but I guess sometimes you have to leave points on the table.
For the last 4 points I would give your priests bolt pistols instead of laspistols, if only to make for less book keeping when you shoot at things with the squad (assuming they are in the bolter blob) Other than that, the list looks almost exactly like my 1850 -- I run a 3rd exorcist rather than the rets, have power mauls on 4 priests and an eviscerator on the last. I will be very interested to hear your thoughts as you put the list through its paces!
@Amerikon. Much better. Although I'm kind of worried that your Rets don't have any buildings/aegis to hide in.
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labmouse42 wrote: If you take Celestine, your blob also has hit and run
I'm looking in the codex entry and missing how Celestine confers HAR on units she's attached to. AFAIK this rule is for the IC and is intended for use with Seraphim.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2013/10/29 14:59:39
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So the only thing left is to remember not to try and hit and run through an opposing squad in a large unit without jump packs lol. Had someone try that with a unit against an Ork Mob and end up stuck in combat because he couldn't get his whole mob out of Base to Base.
I'm going to run four, uriah and Celestine in a blob in December at a tournament. YOu lose the 5++ but gain a 2+ to tank wounds and I want to see Celestine with rerolls to hit, wounds and armor saves.
4 priests eh? I am curious where the 5th priest's 25/40 points are going. 1750 or 1850...what's the rest of the list?
^ I had the exact same thought for the priests and bolt pistols for 1pt it's a no-brainer. Also it maakes conversions easier as I had loads of bolt pistols (holstered and un holstered) kicking about.
I'm going to run four, uriah and Celestine in a blob in December at a tournament. YOu lose the 5++ but gain a 2+ to tank wounds and I want to see Celestine with rerolls to hit, wounds and armor saves.
4 priests eh? I am curious where the 5th priest's 25/40 points are going. 1750 or 1850...what's the rest of the list?
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF, Condemnor in TL-MM Immo
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF, Condemnor in TL-MM Immo
BSS (5) with Flamer/HF in TL-MM Immo
BSS (20) with HF/Flamer, Simulacrum
Dominions (6) with 2 Melta/2 Flamer, Simulacrum in Rhino with Laud Hailer
Dominions (5) with 4 Melta in TL-MM Immo
Exorcist
Exorcist
Exorcist
Automatically Appended Next Post:
evildrcheese wrote: ^ I had the exact same thought for the priests and bolt pistols for 1pt it's a no-brainer. Also it maakes conversions easier as I had loads of bolt pistols (holstered and un holstered) kicking about.
D
Hmm. I may do this.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/29 15:50:39
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Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSSx20 Flamer (I don't have any heavy Flames >.> BSSx10 Rhino
Dominions w/ Meltas MM/Immo x2 (considering using Storm Bolters too)
Seraphim
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist
Exorcist
Looks familiar!
If you don't have a HF for the big blob, go for a MM. Make sure the 10 BSS get Flamer/Melta or something similar. Do not take Storm Bolters on your dominions. Seriously. If you have to do that, don't take them.
Other than that, let us know how it goes.
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I tried a heavily proxied (with Khorne Zerkers and Cultsts no less! ) 2k blob out against a DE/Eldar list that featured a WraithKnight/Wraithlord/Talos pain engine combo and it did okay. I had Jacobus as my warlord for the 5++ with 2 extra priests. Unfortunately, I found that after a lot of my support units (4x BSS with Immos that had TL-MMs) were taken down I felt it really hurt the effectiveness of the blob. Plus, it kept getting blasted away by the Wraithknight who was sporting a 3 shot Plasma Cannon and by Splinter Cannon Venoms. Eventually, over the course of 3 turns they managed to whittle down the squad to 5 sisters, the priests and Jacobus, even though I made an inordinate amount of invulns/armor saves. Never could get into close combat either to take advantage of the Priests/Jacobus Hymns.
Ordinarily, you'd think Sisters would beat that kind of list, but I think some of it was my bad play. This was my first game above 1k with the Sisters, and I think I had bad target acquisition. It probably would've been in my benefit to just blaze down the Knight with the Exorcists (I was running 3) instead of the Ravagers. The problem was, I was concerned with loosing the Exorcists to the Ravagers and thus the majority of my killing potential against the MCs. I just wasn't sure what to prioritize first. I was also running 2 5x Dom squads with Melta and 10x Seraphim (who i forgot to deploy on the start of the game...that probably would've taken some pressure off the blob)...
Anyway, that was my experience with the blob, with a little rambling included
KelCJ wrote: Ordinarily, you'd think Sisters would beat that kind of list, but I think some of it was my bad play. This was my first game above 1k with the Sisters, and I think I had bad target acquisition. It probably would've been in my benefit to just blaze down the Knight with the Exorcists (I was running 3) instead of the Ravagers. The problem was, I was concerned with loosing the Exorcists to the Ravagers and thus the majority of my killing potential against the MCs. I just wasn't sure what to prioritize first. I was also running 2 5x Dom squads with Melta and 10x Seraphim (who i forgot to deploy on the start of the game...that probably would've taken some pressure off the blob)...
Yeah, not deploying aside, you should have had no problem with that list.
Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
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Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSSx20 Flamer (I don't have any heavy Flames >.> BSSx10 Rhino
Dominions w/ Meltas MM/Immo x2 (considering using Storm Bolters too)
Seraphim
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist
Exorcist
Looks familiar!
If you don't have a HF for the big blob, go for a MM. Make sure the 10 BSS get Flamer/Melta or something similar. Do not take Storm Bolters on your dominions. Seriously. If you have to do that, don't take them.
Other than that, let us know how it goes.
I have no sisters heavy weapons besides HB >.>;
I beg of you sarge let me lead the charge when the battle lines are drawn
Lemme at least leave a good hoof beat they'll remember loud and long
Uriah Jacobus
4 Priests with Litanies
Celestine (Warlord)
BSSx20 Flamer (I don't have any heavy Flames >.> BSSx10 Rhino
Dominions w/ Meltas MM/Immo x2 (considering using Storm Bolters too)
Seraphim
Avenger Strike Fighter
Exorcist
Exorcist
Looks familiar!
If you don't have a HF for the big blob, go for a MM. Make sure the 10 BSS get Flamer/Melta or something similar. Do not take Storm Bolters on your dominions. Seriously. If you have to do that, don't take them.
Other than that, let us know how it goes.
I have no sisters heavy weapons besides HB >.>;
Okay, for the 20, go with 2 Flamers. For the 10, go with Flamer/Melta. Dominions, 4 Meltas each.
Your homework? Get some new heavy bits!
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Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
Yeah unfortunately, I didn't have first turn and plus they picked the side with all the LOS blocking cover resulting in two wrecked Immolators and one that lost its MM. Oh and worse, my last Immo got Immoblized on terrain the moment I went to move it! I guess I had some bad luck now that I think about it. I was a bit out of it that game. The deployment was even Dawn of War. Honestly, I thought the game was much to my benefit, and I really should have knocked down the WraithKnight in hindsight first, let the Doms (who were outflanking) pick off the Ravagers, and let the Immo knock down the Venoms/Ravagers (really the one that was left...and stuck) I think I could have outlasted them had I done that...Blast hindsight! Oh well. Lesson learned I suppose.
On another note, what do people think about stealing some Space Marines allies and using Drop Pods for a strong alpha strike coupled with scouting Dominions?
KelCJ wrote: Yeah unfortunately, I didn't have first turn and plus they picked the side with all the LOS blocking cover resulting in two wrecked Immolators and one that lost its MM.
Only one side had LOS blockers? That's kind of a problem.
On another note, what do people think about stealing some Space Marines allies and using Drop Pods for a strong alpha strike coupled with scouting Dominions?
Meh, we already have a good alpha strike. I mean, it can work, but there isn't a lot that we get out of it that we don't have otherwise.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2013/10/29 18:17:26
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$14 a pop. Try to trade for just the weapon parts or start converting!
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Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
Yeah unfortunately, I didn't have first turn and plus they picked the side with all the LOS blocking cover resulting in two wrecked Immolators and one that lost its MM. Oh and worse, my last Immo got Immoblized on terrain the moment I went to move it! I guess I had some bad luck now that I think about it. I was a bit out of it that game. The deployment was even Dawn of War. Honestly, I thought the game was much to my benefit, and I really should have knocked down the WraithKnight in hindsight first, let the Doms (who were outflanking) pick off the Ravagers, and let the Immo knock down the Venoms/Ravagers (really the one that was left...and stuck) I think I could have outlasted them had I done that...Blast hindsight! Oh well. Lesson learned I suppose.
On another note, what do people think about stealing some Space Marines allies and using Drop Pods for a strong alpha strike coupled with scouting Dominions?
Your issue isn't that you had bad targeting, but the terrain. This can be a big problem. The table should be evenly set up with Los blocking and normal terrain. If it's all on one side it's wrong.
KelCJ wrote: Ordinarily, you'd think Sisters would beat that kind of list, but I think some of it was my bad play. This was my first game above 1k with the Sisters, and I think I had bad target acquisition. It probably would've been in my benefit to just blaze down the Knight with the Exorcists (I was running 3) instead of the Ravagers. The problem was, I was concerned with loosing the Exorcists to the Ravagers and thus the majority of my killing potential against the MCs. I just wasn't sure what to prioritize first. I was also running 2 5x Dom squads with Melta and 10x Seraphim (who i forgot to deploy on the start of the game...that probably would've taken some pressure off the blob)...
Yeah, not deploying aside, you should have had no problem with that list.
Depending on deployment and first turn you can pop either the WK or the Ravagers first turn and then just gun down paper airplanes all day long.
This seems a bit optimistic. Even with first turn, a full pile of Exorcists and Dominions, you're going to struggle to drop a Wraithknight in a single turn.
Cratfworld Alaitoc (
Order of the Red Mantle (
Grand (little) Army of Chaos, now painting! (
Other than that, the list looks almost exactly like my 1850 -- I run a 3rd exorcist rather than the rets, have power mauls on 4 priests and an eviscerator on the last. I will be very interested to hear your thoughts as you put the list through its paces! 
