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Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Bit of an odd question, are people finding themselves using flamers less since 7th edition?

Nope.

Farseer Anath'lan wrote:
Bit of an odd question, are people finding themselves using flamers less since 7th edition?

I find myself very rarely taking only one pair of hand flamers in 5 woman seraphim squads, but besides that not at all.

please enlighten me as I don't have the new rules, what changed to make flamers/heavy flamers a poor choice?

I find I rarely have the opportunity to get close enough to flame something flammable without dying/getting un-rhino'ed first.
I usually want more melta because my local meta is vehicle/MC-heavy and I play a lot of marines with their pesky 3+ save.

The change is that wounds are only pooled by weapon type and can only be allocated to models in range of said weapon. Also flamers are not heavy flamers so one will remove targets before the other can place its template.

Personally I prefer the superior range and AP of melta gun. I tend to have heavy bolter rets to help keep hordes in check, but they're just not that popular in my local meta. Aside from a few SM scouts, I've faced nothing with a save worse than 3+ in my last five games.

ok so mixing 2 types of flamers is neutered and if to reg flamers can only cover 3 models they can kill max three models?

So looking at 7th, since all units score...are retributors now the best option for hq escorts?

Uriah with ten retributors behind a aegis with a signum are 3+/5++ with three rounds of rending for the same cost as a normal squad.

 sfshilo wrote:
So looking at 7th, since all units score...are retributors now the best option for hq escorts?

Uriah with ten retributors behind a aegis with a signum are 3+/5++ with three rounds of rending for the same cost as a normal squad.

If you're going to take Rets, take a Bastion.

They are slightly better since they both score and can score in a bastion.

Pretty much. Ideally, from what I can tell, you want to use your shortest range weapons first and work your way up since casualties must also be removed from closest models first. Something like:

Inferno pistols
Flamers
Heavy Flamers
Salvo with max range <=12"
Assault with max range <=12"
Multi-shot Heavy with max range <=12"
Double-firing rapid fire weapon <=12"
Single-shot Heavy with max range <=12"
Pistols
Salvo with max range 12-24"
Assault with max range 12-24"
Multi-shot Heavy with max range 12-24"
Double-firing rapid fire weapons <15"
Single-firing rapid fire weapons to max range
Single-shot Heavy with max range 12-24"
Salvo with max range range > 24"
Assault with max range > 24"
Heavy with max range > 24" - multi-shot before single shot

Considering a small Space Wolves force since I got the Sanctus Reach box. I've picked up the codex and am thinking a Wolf Lord to join my Priest buffed blob squad.

Now, I feel a little cheesy for suggesting this but let me know your thoughts. The Wolfen Stone rules state "the bear and his unit, have the furious charge special rule..." note and his unit, not a thing about needing to be in the SW faction. So furious charging blob squad by RAW, right? I do feel dirty as the fluff blurb clearly suggests it only affects SW.

Also, there's nothing stopping a Wolf Lord joining an infantry unit if he has a thunder wolf, right?

D

Right. I ran SW/SOB to great effect a couple years ago.

Now, I feel a little cheesy for suggesting this but let me know your thoughts

Thou shalt not suffer the mutant to live.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
But, seriously though, new SW with its easy access to Pods is aces.

Mavnas wrote:
The change is that wounds are only pooled by weapon type and can only be allocated to models in range of said weapon. Also flamers are not heavy flamers so one will remove targets before the other can place its template.

Personally I prefer the superior range and AP of melta gun. I tend to have heavy bolter rets to help keep hordes in check, but they're just not that popular in my local meta. Aside from a few SM scouts, I've faced nothing with a save worse than 3+ in my last five games.

Doesn't the template section specify that they all get shot at the same time?

 Paimon wrote:

Mavnas wrote:
The change is that wounds are only pooled by weapon type and can only be allocated to models in range of said weapon. Also flamers are not heavy flamers so one will remove targets before the other can place its template.

Personally I prefer the superior range and AP of melta gun. I tend to have heavy bolter rets to help keep hordes in check, but they're just not that popular in my local meta. Aside from a few SM scouts, I've faced nothing with a save worse than 3+ in my last five games.

Doesn't the template section specify that they all get shot at the same time?

All the templates of the same weapon, so 4 flamers don't interfere with each other. I think there was a long YMDC thread on this.

Played my first game today.

I used

Celestine

2x 10 girl squads with combi flamer, flamer and heavy flamer in rhinos

10 girl Seraphim squad with hand flamers.

Min domm squad with 4 meltas in a immo.

Exo with storm bolter.

My opponent used a Sentinels of Terra drop pod army with

Lysander

Sternguard squad 6 guys with 2x meltas and 2x combi meltas

2 full tac squads with melta gun and combi melta on the sergeant

Iron clad with 2x Heavy Flamers


Marine Turn 1

He got the first turn and and the Sterguard with Lysander and one Tac squad came in with no scatter. He killed a bunch of Seraphim and poor Celestine got insta gibbed One of my rhino's blew up and managed to cause a wound on Lysander But my Superior bought it in the explosion as well.

Sisters Turn 1

Celestine gets back up and she and her squad moves towards a objective and out of los. My immo fires a hefty 6 missiles but due to poor rolling only a single guy in the tac squad bites it. My rhino drive up and I unleash my HF and flamer but fail to kill anything. The BSS squad that had their transport blown up pop their faith hose the Sternguard with their flamer weapons fail to cause any wounds. The the bolter girls opened fire they killed the whole sternguard squad That was the only time my dice liked me though lol.

Marine Turn 2

Ironclad and his second Tac squad comes in with only the Tac squad pod scattering. They shoot Celestine and the reaming Seraphim killing all of the Seraphim. Iron clad kills a bunch of girls that killed the sternguard squad with his HF causing them to fall back. The other Tac squad kills my Exo with melta fire and Lysander blows up my second rhino with his hammer.

Sisters Turn 2

The BSS falling back rallies and shoots the Tac squad without much effect. The BSS that had their rhino blown up shoot Lysander and the Tac squad with the combi flamer, flamer and HF scoring like 15 hits once everything was said and done. Only 2 Marines were left alive. Immo comes on from reverses and fires everything it's got at the wall of drop pods in my DZ but only shake one and strip 2 HP off another. Celestine flames the Tac squad hitting all 10 guys! But fails to cause a single wound I am only 5" from the Tac squad and I roll for my charge range eating overwatch and suffering a wound I then reroll my charge distance because I didn't use her jump pack to move and roll 3"

Marine Turn 3

Lysander kills all of the BSS squad from the rhino he destroyed last turn. The Ironclad kills the other BSS that had rallied. The Tac squad kills Celestine. Storm Bolter fire from all of the pods kill a a melta domm.

Sisters Turn 3

I try to kill 2 pods but fail to roll anything above a 2 for my damage roll. Even with the AP 1 bonus I never rolled higher then a stun the whole game.

Marine Turn 4

He cleans up my immo and the few reaming melta guns.

Still had a great time playing though. I'm a pretty laid back causal player and so was he so it was a really relaxed game.

So in the Codex, it doesn't list the Eviscerator as Unwieldy, but it is in the BRB. Do we luck out and get a non-unwieldy variant or is this an oversight?

 Shandara wrote:
I find I rarely have the opportunity to get close enough to flame something flammable without dying/getting un-rhino'ed first.
I usually want more melta because my local meta is vehicle/MC-heavy and I play a lot of marines with their pesky 3+ save.

I'd agree that it's meta-based.

I'm still immensely happy with my flamer/Heavy Flamer combo frying up Necrons Orks and Guard. It's also a weapon that is more than useful on the blob in overwatch, something that happens quite often.
Wall of Fire rule has no range, so they can happily sit mid-unit waiting for it, moving forward only on your turn if you decide you're doing the charging.

Same on the MSU in Rhino: Drive up to target and flame. They usually then try to charge the rhino (duh you're 1" away from them - if you didn't tank shock too, because i'd suggest that too) and get hit again by the 2D3 of attacks. Usually stripping 1-2 HP afterwards, but they're toast (including Pun).

Templar_Grist wrote:
So in the Codex, it doesn't list the Eviscerator as Unwieldy, but it is in the BRB. Do we luck out and get a non-unwieldy variant or is this an oversight?

Under the melee weapon section is says to look in the main rulebook for full rules on those weapons and this includes the Eviscerator.


I have found myself using less and less flamers. My meta is not very friendly to them so I rarely get to use them. My last game against the new spacewolves I had 4 heavy flamers accross 4 basic sister squads and only ever got to shoot one in overwatch. Rest of them were basically useless.

Otherwise I regularly face Tau farsight gunlines, necron flyers wings, daemons or space marines with knight titans. My flamers rarely get in range of anything before dying.

It's been really hard to get a decent TAC list done that can deal with all these various threats

I did cause a Salamanders Chapter unit of Tac Marines to break and flee from my Celestine+Seraphim the other week. Piled on something like 27 wounds because of Shred with Celestine's Heavy Flamer, the 2 Seraphim with dual hand flamers and the other Seraphim with Bolt Pistols, and caused 3 casualties. And then they failed their morale and run. Was pretty hilarious.

GoonBandito wrote:
I did cause a Salamanders Chapter unit of Tac Marines to break and flee from my Celestine+Seraphim the other week. Piled on something like 27 wounds because of Shred with Celestine's Heavy Flamer, the 2 Seraphim with dual hand flamers and the other Seraphim with Bolt Pistols, and caused 3 casualties. And then they failed their morale and run. Was pretty hilarious.

I've had Celestine hit squads of bikers kill 2 with her flamer the fail the 4" charge she needed to make.

So the new Grey Knights codex is leaked, and there's an interesting change to Psyk-Out Grenades. They can now also be thrown in the shooting phase as 8", S2, AP-, Assault1, Blast, Psi-Shock.

Psi-Shock: Any unit that contains a Psyker, Brotherhood of Pysker or Psychic Pilot model is hit by a weapon with this rule, a randomly selected Psyker Model in that unit suffers Perils of the Warp.

Now that may sound familiar, because that was basically the original wording of the Condemnor Boltgun's Psi-Shock rule. So Sisters and Inquisition get the nerfed Psi-Shock rule (where you need to cause a Wound on a Psyker) and now Grey Knights get the original awesome rule (where you just have to hit a unit containing a Psyker).

Too much to hope that GW will update the Sisters and Inquisition codex's to match the new Psyk-Out Grenade and Psi-Shock rules?

Played another game with my girls today.

I used the same list as before and my opponent had 2 bike squads with a biker captain and 2 devastator squads using IF chapter tactics.

This time my dice cooperated with me and I won. I even had 2 melta domms alive at the end of the game. The best moment was killing his biker captain with over watch wall of fire

I felt like i played smart and was rewarded with the win.

I only pay with fully painted armies and because sisters are so rare everybody came over and had a look at my army even though it's just tabletop standard.

 MrFlutterPie wrote:
Played another game with my girls today.

I used the same list as before and my opponent had 2 bike squads with a biker captain and 2 devastator squads using IF chapter tactics.

This time my dice cooperated with me and I won. I even had 2 melta domms alive at the end of the game. The best moment was killing his biker captain with over watch wall of fire

I felt like i played smart and was rewarded with the win.

I only pay with fully painted armies and because sisters are so rare everybody came over and had a look at my army even though it's just tabletop standard.

Excellent to hear!

As to the last part, I completely agree. I only go out of the house with fully painted armies (I play in my garage with the work in progress though). It is just so much nicer!

Played another game today same list as the last 2 games.

Played a Crimson Fist army using IF CT.

His army was:

Librarian
5 man Tac squad Drop Pod (combat squaded)
Storm Raven
Venerable Dreadnaught
5 man sniper scouts with a heavy bolter
5 man Tac squad with grav gun and a lascannon in rhino.
10 man assault squad with flamers.



I won again but only because I was super lucky. His Storm Raven came in on turn 2 and opened fire on my Exo. Even with the 2D6 on the multi melta he failed to scratch my Exo. I returned fire in my turn rolling 5 missiles and got 2 hits on snap shots! I roll 2 penetrating hits and got 2 immobilized results. First roll was 5 the second was 2! The Storm Raven crashed and burned. The dreadnaught it was carrying luckier only being stunned and losing a HP. I took care of it the next turn though with my Exo

My opponent had some bad luck though. His Librarian killed himself by a combination of plasma overheats and perils.

My opponent took a few pics mid game.

What do you guys think of the new Culexus (anti-psyker assassin in the new data sheet)? It seems perfect for giving us some counters to psykers and you could model her as a Saint or Sister of Silence.

Not seen the new rules what did they get?

Here is a great summary of the dataslate:

http://ftgtgaming.blogspot.ca/2014/08/officio-assassinorum-dataslate-first.html

Rules look good and are NOT copypasta from the 5th Grey Knight book.

Culexus does look pretty sweet. Shutting off buffs is crazy.

Game-winning if you can manage it at the right time. Getting rid of Invisibility and other buffs on a centurion-star...

Vindicare is more all-round useful though.

I think the situations where the Vindecare will win you the game are very rare. The Culexus, on the other hand, will break certain armies.