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I brought an 650 points army with 14 flame templates against a friend who is starting Legion of the Damned. Even though my 5-flamers dominions failed all the reserve rolls, and when they automatically showed up, arrived on the wrong end of the board, my Celestine + Seraphim unit won me the day. As you can see, I am trying quite hard to convince him to stick to Warmachine ^^.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I brought an 650 points army with 14 flame templates against a friend who is starting Legion of the Damned. Even though my 5-flamers dominions failed all the reserve rolls, and when they automatically showed up, arrived on the wrong end of the board, my Celestine + Seraphim unit won me the day. As you can see, I am trying quite hard to convince him to stick to Warmachine ^^.

5 Flamer Dominions? Why?

Another note for new players is that GW might actually be the cheapest place to get single special weapons. EBay may be host to some larger lot deals, but they'll scalp you for minis that are still available from the manufacturer. Same with immolators, the kit is barely more expensive than a rhino.

Yeah I understand that the Repressor is better but a) where can i find it's rules. b) I know my way around converting Chimera and Leman Russ hulls but that Immolator will be the first ever Rhino hull I get. Anyone has a good guide?
And on the subject of model allocation would those 5 Sisters be any good manning (ha) an Aegis with an Icarus? I planed to put the Retributors there but i recognise the glory that is scouting Meltas.
And Yea the initial plan was to have Celestine and Her Girls do Counterattack duties protecting Battletanks.

konst80hummel wrote:
Yeah I understand that the Repressor is better but a) where can i find it's rules. b) I know my way around converting Chimera and Leman Russ hulls but that Immolator will be the first ever Rhino hull I get. Anyone has a good guide?
And on the subject of model allocation would those 5 Sisters be any good manning (ha) an Aegis with an Icarus? I planed to put the Retributors there but i recognise the glory that is scouting Meltas.
And Yea the initial plan was to have Celestine and Her Girls do Counterattack duties protecting Battletanks.

Repressor is IA2, iirc.

Easy conversion is Immolator kit, plus cupola with SB (add Heavy Flamer from Immo kit), Leman Russ Bulldozer, Penitent Engine Driver 'armor' on the front. I have pics in my gallery.

If you're going to do a fort, get a bastion and put Retributors in it.

From a counter-attack standpoint, Celestine or Jacobus plus a priest or two in a Combined Blob squad is hilarious.


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Here's my repressors before I got Leman Russ dozers:




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They are magnetized to swap to Immolators.

 pretre wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I brought an 650 points army with 14 flame templates against a friend who is starting Legion of the Damned. Even though my 5-flamers dominions failed all the reserve rolls, and when they automatically showed up, arrived on the wrong end of the board, my Celestine + Seraphim unit won me the day. As you can see, I am trying quite hard to convince him to stick to Warmachine ^^.

5 Flamer Dominions? Why?

4 and a combi. Because that is the best loadout against a legion of the damned unit. Just kill one guy for each flamer, and you got your points back!

Also it is very energy-efficient: you can just turn off the lighter. Just throw the promethium at the legionnaire and it will ignite. Hum, barbecue!

(He gave up when Celestine (who had already died once) along with the two surviving seraphims with pairs of flamers act of faithed them into loosing 7 HP on his 10 man squad. So I could not use my 5 flamers.)

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I brought an 650 points army with 14 flame templates against a friend who is starting Legion of the Damned. Even though my 5-flamers dominions failed all the reserve rolls, and when they automatically showed up, arrived on the wrong end of the board, my Celestine + Seraphim unit won me the day. As you can see, I am trying quite hard to convince him to stick to Warmachine ^^.

5 Flamer Dominions? Why?

4 and a combi. Because that is the best loadout against a legion of the damned unit. Just kill one guy for each flamer, and you got your points back!

Also it is very energy-efficient: you can just turn off the lighter. Just throw the promethium at the legionnaire and it will ignite. Hum, barbecue!

(He gave up when Celestine (who had already died once) along with the two surviving seraphims with pairs of flamers act of faithed them into loosing 7 HP on his 10 man squad. So I could not use my 5 flamers.)

I just would never take a flamer dominion unit unless I was tailoring against an opponent.

konst80hummel wrote:
Yeah I understand that the Repressor is better but a) where can i find it's rules. b) I know my way around converting Chimera and Leman Russ hulls but that Immolator will be the first ever Rhino hull I get. Anyone has a good guide?
And on the subject of model allocation would those 5 Sisters be any good manning (ha) an Aegis with an Icarus? I planed to put the Retributors there but i recognise the glory that is scouting Meltas.
And Yea the initial plan was to have Celestine and Her Girls do Counterattack duties protecting Battletanks.

As PanzerLeader said, the 5-Girl squad would do really well with a Heavy Flamer in a Rhino, as another MSU Unit for you.

Until then, then could sit on any backfield objective quite cheaply.

Retributors work really well in a combo with Bastion + Canoness + Command Squad, but i don't think that's a feasible route for you. They're probably quite happy on the Aegis with the Vet sergeant on the Quad Gun.

Converting a Repressor from Immolator kit should not be too hard, just have a look at the FW Kit. As pretre said for the Rules, IA Vol 2.2

 BlackTalos wrote:
Retributors work really well in a combo with Bastion + Canoness + Command Squad, but i don't think that's a feasible route for you. They're probably quite happy on the Aegis with the Vet sergeant on the Quad Gun.

Why would you take a canoness and command squad? Just take rets with 7 girls, simulacrum and 4 hb, jacobus optional.

 pretre wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Retributors work really well in a combo with Bastion + Canoness + Command Squad, but i don't think that's a feasible route for you. They're probably quite happy on the Aegis with the Vet sergeant on the Quad Gun.

Why would you take a canoness and command squad? Just take rets with 7 girls, simulacrum and 4 hb, jacobus optional.

Because the entire set, though more costly, is much more effective:

9 Heavy Bolters, BS5 Quad Gun, dialogus and 2 Turns of rending. It really is a set-up you should play-test and come back with results. It just doesn't sound as good on paper

Full set-up:
6-Girl Retributors, 4 HB, Simulacr
Canoness, no upgrades, joined to Rets on the Roof of
Bastion, Quad Gun, Void Shield
Command Squad, 4HB, dialogus, inside Bastion, dialogus gets an emplaced HB.

Best use of dialogus upgrade i've seen so far, having a Heavy bolter :p

I'd rather just use the rets inside for the 2 extra HB and the Quad all rending. Dialogus buff isn't really that big a deal is it?

Can people inside fire the quad-gun? I was pretty sure the answer was no.

Mavnas wrote:
Can people inside fire the quad-gun? I was pretty sure the answer was no.

Yes, they can. This changed with Stronghold Assault and was kept in 7th edition.

 pretre wrote:
I just would never take a flamer dominion unit unless I was tailoring against an opponent.

I was tailoring against him, but I do regularly field a flamer dominion unit because it is fun.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I just would never take a flamer dominion unit unless I was tailoring against an opponent.

I was tailoring against him, but I do regularly field a flamer dominion unit because it is fun.

Agreed. Melta doms are the way to go for general effectiveness but a bit dull (for me) running them all the time, flamer units liven things up a bit and are good for a grin.

But then again I use penitent engines for the same reason.

 pretre wrote:
I'd rather just use the rets inside for the 2 extra HB and the Quad all rending. Dialogus buff isn't really that big a deal is it?

2 Extra? You have to point the emplaced Weapons, like vehicle weapons, so it's already a stretch saying they cover 360 vision, let alone getting 2 at 45*....

Dialogus buff is useful for the Rets getting their 2 Acts off, since you're on Ld8, and being inside the Bastion, you measure "from the bastion", for all the Units outside. Measuring from the circumference of a Bastion is a relatively large footprint

 BlackTalos wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I'd rather just use the rets inside for the 2 extra HB and the Quad all rending. Dialogus buff isn't really that big a deal is it?

2 Extra? You have to point the emplaced Weapons, like vehicle weapons, so it's already a stretch saying they cover 360 vision, let alone getting 2 at 45*....

Dialogus buff is useful for the Rets getting their 2 Acts off, since you're on Ld8, and being inside the Bastion, you measure "from the bastion", for all the Units outside. Measuring from the circumference of a Bastion is a relatively large footprint

I didn't say 360. It is quite common to get two of the HB on a target though.

 pretre wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:

 pretre wrote:
I'd rather just use the rets inside for the 2 extra HB and the Quad all rending. Dialogus buff isn't really that big a deal is it?

2 Extra? You have to point the emplaced Weapons, like vehicle weapons, so it's already a stretch saying they cover 360 vision, let alone getting 2 at 45*....

Dialogus buff is useful for the Rets getting their 2 Acts off, since you're on Ld8, and being inside the Bastion, you measure "from the bastion", for all the Units outside. Measuring from the circumference of a Bastion is a relatively large footprint

I didn't say 360. It is quite common to get two of the HB on a target though.

It would have to be very close and quite spread out?

The emplaced Heavy Bolters on the bastion cover about 45 arc total, and if you stand a model directly diagonal to the Building, none of your emplaced HB should be able to turn enough to point at it... ?

When i said 360, i mean that being anywhere around the bastion *should* put you in LOS of a Heavy Bolter on the Bastion, even though technically it has 4 blind spots.
Tried to find a top-view image, but this will have to do:
Somewhat large blind spot between both red Line of Sight markers

 Captain Blood wrote:
Agreed. Melta doms are the way to go for general effectiveness

And are totally useless against Legions of the Damned. Hence why I went full on flamer ^^.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Captain Blood wrote:
Agreed. Melta doms are the way to go for general effectiveness

And are totally useless against Legions of the Damned. Hence why I went full on flamer ^^.

Which is why I said "general" and not something more emphatic.

 BlackTalos wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 BlackTalos wrote:
Retributors work really well in a combo with Bastion + Canoness + Command Squad, but i don't think that's a feasible route for you. They're probably quite happy on the Aegis with the Vet sergeant on the Quad Gun.

Why would you take a canoness and command squad? Just take rets with 7 girls, simulacrum and 4 hb, jacobus optional.

Because the entire set, though more costly, is much more effective:

9 Heavy Bolters, BS5 Quad Gun, dialogus and 2 Turns of rending. It really is a set-up you should play-test and come back with results. It just doesn't sound as good on paper

Full set-up:
6-Girl Retributors, 4 HB, Simulacr
Canoness, no upgrades, joined to Rets on the Roof of
Bastion, Quad Gun, Void Shield
Command Squad, 4HB, dialogus, inside Bastion, dialogus gets an emplaced HB.

Best use of dialogus upgrade i've seen so far, having a Heavy bolter :p

Since the girls inside can run the quad gun, I would have the canonness joined to the unit inside for better protection, the sisters on top will die fairly quickly to anything that has some volume of fire, no need to expose the cannoness nedlessly. The advantage of having the retributors inside is to have rending on the emplaced bolters (and rending on quad gun which is nice against flyrants).

I have been thinking of going with the Bastion + ADL combo, so I can have another quad gun or las cannon on the ground. For that I might put a HB command squad behind ADL, without a dialogus but maybe with an hospitaler. Also think I rather go Ammo dump than void shield for bastion.


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Actually, it might be good to have on of the guns run by a solo cannonnes or Uriah, so I don't have to waste up to 9 heavy bolters on snap shots at flying units (flying units can even be AV12, even more of a waste).

Yeah, thinking about it the Rets inside with canoness with command squad on top might be the better option.

But then you loose the dialogus effect measured form the entire bastion.

Don't forget that the enemy has to take down the void shield before he gets to the models on the battlements.

You'd also combine this with MSU or other Units that grab the enemy's attention too.

Meh, any answer that involves the command squad is not the better option.

 pretre wrote:
Meh, any answer that involves the command squad is not the better option.

Unless you've already filled all your Heavy and Fast Attack options.

Double cad.

Before running my HB sisters as rets for the rending AoF I used to run them as a command squad with hospitaller.

The rets with rending have been ok, to be honest I haven't found them stellar though. Most of the time I find what I'm shooting them at is in ruins or otherwise has cover (jinking light skimmers) so the rending has been more or less a waste for me. Back when I ran them with the hospitaller the FNP actually saved them quite often from what would have been crippling damage. I'm thinking I may swap back to the command squad for my next few matches and see if I like them as much as I remember.

You get to choose when to use the rending though... I mean, do what makes you happy, but I'd rather have and potentially not use rending than have an expensive FNP squad and a useless canoness. If you really like survivability more than rending, just take more models in the retributor squad. How many more can you get in the squad for the same cost? Or put them in a bastion or Imperial Bunker. Either one probably still keeps the squad cheaper than command and canoness and makes them a lot more survivable.

The only downside of rets is that they aren't Exos. The downside of a command squad is that they aren't rets, are more expensive than rets and saddle you with a milquetoast hq.

I use my SCS as a mini-retributer squad as well. But I use multi-meltas. Yeah, I know the problem of getting multi's up to where you need them, but I've found they work well to help guard from faster vehicles, out-flanked vehicles, and faster things like knights. Basically, I hold them for things that want to get right in my face (so I don't have to move them), so the regular meltas can move on to other targets.

Re Heavy Support:

What are people's thoughts on a retributor squad with 4 heavy bolters over a 3rd exorcist? If I have no designated anti air or allies at all is the 3rd exorcist too important to drop?

Edit: Is it worth running HBs at all (as a command squad) in a mech list?

I normally run 2 Exorcists and 1 Heavy Bolter Ret squad (although I don't have a 3rd Exorcist anyway). The Ret's usually seem to do well enough to keep holding down a spot in my lists.

I dunno if I'd go so far to put another 4 HB's in a Command Squad though. It's not so much about having Rending or not, but more so than not really need another 4 HB's. I feel my anti-infantry firepower is covered enough by the BSS and Ret squad already. I'd run a Command Squad with 4 Multi Meltas or kitted out for melee before I'd run them with HB's.