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Also scouts didnt't get cheaper.

Now if you want to talk about comparisons, vanguard vets getting 5 point power weapons...

Still, I'm generally disappointed with the new SM codex. There's no detachment/formation that allows empty drop pods, so in a tournament setting where duplicate named detachments are not allowed, codex marines can bring us at most 1 pod in an allied detachment, and if you want their demi-company you have to bring 3 tactical squads...

Raven Guard lost scout, so no more opportunity to bring 4 scouting ICs to get the rest of my army to keep up with the doms (I never got around to trying this one).

I'm still a nub but to me it seems the role of BSs is a necessary tax to get special/heavy weapons. So comparing the stats and points of a sister vs a scout seems a bit moot.

To be fair, all Sisters pretty much have the same base stats, except doms who pay 1 for scouting and seraphim who pay 3 for jump packs and rerollable 6++.

I haven't really thought that regular sisters were overcosted. However, I think T4 vs T3 is about the same as +3 armor compared to 4+ armor, with that in mind I also think the prices on regular sisters needs to go down 1-2points. If the point is that we are paying a tax for special weapons, then the answer is to make the special weapons 1-2 points more expensive. On the other hand, sisters have adamantium will and 6++, which counts for something, so maybe a 1 point reduction would be ok.

There is just so much other stuff in our codex that could be fixed before we start complaining about point costs.

What really annoys me with the codex is what Rihgu said. Allowing rending on space marine heavy bolters. Because we only have one unique thing with sisters, removing that and giving it to other factions just annoys me so much. Let us keep the few unique mechanics we have please.

I really love the SoB faction, and have been playing them since Dawn of War: Soulstorm was released, since I didn't think there was a faction in 40k I wanted to play before that point. 7 years later we have never gotten any new models and what codex updates we get just removes more units from our lists and nerf what few good units we have. Every year there are rumors of plastic sisters, which I think we have even seen pictures of, and codex with new units, but every year those hopes are crushed. That said, I did like the addition of faith powers in the WD codex we used to have, I just wish they would have kept how faith and Celestine worked in the latest codex.

On the bright side, sisters was the faction that got me into 40k, and I have played Black Templars, Grey Knights, Eldar, Tau and now Harlequins since then.

7 years later we have never gotten any new models and what codex updates we get just removes more units from our lists and nerf what few good units we have.

I think we're in one of the best places we've been since C:CA in 2001/2002.

Mavnas wrote:
Also scouts didnt't get cheaper.

Now if you want to talk about comparisons, vanguard vets getting 5 point power weapons...

Still, I'm generally disappointed with the new SM codex. There's no detachment/formation that allows empty drop pods, so in a tournament setting where duplicate named detachments are not allowed, codex marines can bring us at most 1 pod in an allied detachment, and if you want their demi-company you have to bring 3 tactical squads...

Raven Guard lost scout, so no more opportunity to bring 4 scouting ICs to get the rest of my army to keep up with the doms (I never got around to trying this one).

Still have Flesh Tearers Strike Force detachment (1 troops, 1 HQ, 6FA - all of which can be drop pods), and Chapter Tactics: Raptors I believe still gives scout until updated by Forgeworld.

Yeah, the flesh Tearers use BA units though. So none of the new Codex stuff.

C:SM was never our go to ally, so it isn't a big deal. Still have BA and SW.

What could be fun though would be to bring a demi-company alongside a Sisters CAD. You'd get a Captain, 3 tactical squads, a choice of FA squads, and either Devastators or Centurions (plus a choice of optional command squad and Dreadnought unit). It's a relatively cheap detachment, lets you add a ton of special weapons (including grav cannons) and the entire formation is ObSec. ObSec Ironclad dreadnaughts are pretty sick now at five attacks each, six on the charge. You could also use the FA squad slot to buy 3 attack bikes, giving you quick heavy bolters or multi-meltas on a 24" movement ObSec unit when you need it.

I really dislike Tactical squads. The grav cannons help, but they have insufficient range to be able to just stay put.

I've had good luck in my last few games running a CM with TH and Shireld Eternal with a bike squad and Celestine. She hides out with that squad and Hit and Runs them until turn 3 or so when the CM ties up something big and Celestine breaks off to sweep away backfield objective campers.

That said, I've not in the last 5 games needed the EW from the shield and a Wolflord with his S10 attacks would have been better vs. Necrons and anyone with FNP.

BA also do choppy, but jump units are T4. The whole purpose of these allies was to give my opponents something to shoot at while I moved my meltas into position.

Yeah, sisters don't need tac squads.

The tac squads themselves are only ok. But if you keep them cheap (5 marines, special, combi, drop pod) they supplement your dominion alpha strike nicely. The formation as a whole adds a ton of ObSec to a Sisters army though and is a huge boon to solving counter assault problems (say, 2 ironclads that also boost your AV13 saturation) and help with target overload by adding centurions.

I've not had counter assault problems in awhile, but my enemies have generally brought shooty armies.

5 man Vanguard Vets w/jump packs and power weapons at 135 points are way better than a Tactical squad, but unless I'm allowed to bring the 3-5 formation of those guys without the demi-company, I'm stuck having a single Elite slot which should go to a CCS because Ironhands bikers with FNP fulfill the escort/distraction role better than T4 vets.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Target overload is also generally not a problem I need to solve if Celestine and the CM have a solid unit to escort them. Between that unit and the doms my BSS can generally go wherever they want and remind enemies that every sisters squad I being has a minimum of 2 Meltaguns.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Being able to bring scouts in an LSS would also give me mobile scoring units that the enemy would be too busy to shoot.

PanzerLeader wrote:
What could be fun though would be to bring a demi-company alongside a Sisters CAD. You'd get a Captain, 3 tactical squads, a choice of FA squads, and either Devastators or Centurions (plus a choice of optional command squad and Dreadnought unit). It's a relatively cheap detachment, lets you add a ton of special weapons (including grav cannons) and the entire formation is ObSec. ObSec Ironclad dreadnaughts are pretty sick now at five attacks each, six on the charge. You could also use the FA squad slot to buy 3 attack bikes, giving you quick heavy bolters or multi-meltas on a 24" movement ObSec unit when you need it.

Yeah, I think my biggest problem is my army is becoming less and less Sisters as new releases leave us further behind. I'm just not willing to pay 300+ point tax in marines.

I guess I could always try the Inquisition LR full of crusaders and DCAs, as I consider Inquisition allies to be more normal.

Or I could paint my Knight Acheron bring the plasma obliterator and break out both types of apocalyptic templates.

Mavnas wrote:
Yeah, I think my biggest problem is my army is becoming less and less Sisters as new releases leave us further behind. I'm just not willing to pay 300+ point tax in marines.

When I feel like having fun I run my FT Strike Force with a scout squad, sang priest with jump pack to run with my living saint, the rest is drop pods loaded up with PenEngines. They are still cheap, and Alpha Strike drop pod PenEngines scare the crap out of most everything. Coupled with double CAD doms, it's a fun and destructive list.

I don't expect my double CAD sisters to kill everything, but they do fairly well. Is everyone frustrated with their pure Sisters lists or is everyone just trying to enjoy the new options coming along with 7ed dexes that Sisters haven't gotten to tap into yet? Not criticizing in anyway, I've just been pretty happy with the 7ed changes for the Sisters and have my Raven Guard to play with all the new Marine bling.

Maybe I'm feeling less of the frustration and don't need to explore ALL of the new options?

Well, I'm trying to build a tournament list, and unfortunately double CAD is out. If it weren't there'd be no issue.

Also, if I painted faster, I could switch to SW or BA and use one of their cool detachments. Unfortunately, while I bought some of each of those when they came out, it will be a long time until I get around to painting them.

Manvas:

What chapter did you paint for? Any specific Chapter tactic? And Tac squads are better with Raptors CT. Scout, Stealth and Heavy 1 Rending bolters, though with the buff to scouts the Scout Squad may be better since they have longer range and precision shots from Sniper. Just no rending.

 dracpanzer wrote:
the rest is drop pods loaded up with PenEngines.

PenEngines can't go in Drop Pods. They aren't infantry and they aren't dreadnoughts.

 Acidian wrote:
What really annoys me with the codex is what Rihgu said. Allowing rending on space marine heavy bolters. Because we only have one unique thing with sisters, removing that and giving it to other factions just annoys me so much.

But what about Eviscerators? Those are pretty emblematic of the Ecclesiarchy, right, so marines should not get them?
Next C:SM will include the Exorcist, Astartes pattern that shoot 2D6 missiles and is AV14/13/12…

Ugh, at least you're in the right thread to complain about it this time. I don't see eviscerators as uniquely SOB. They started as a redemptionist weapon.

It is annoying that once again our special toys have been stolen for use by the abhuman freaks... at least ASMs didn't get the option for dual pistols yet.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
It is annoying that once again our special toys have been stolen for use by the abhuman freaks... at least ASMs didn't get the option for dual pistols yet.

Except, as I said, we stole them from human freaks first.

Taikishi wrote:
Manvas:

What chapter did you paint for? Any specific Chapter tactic? And Tac squads are better with Raptors CT. Scout, Stealth and Heavy 1 Rending bolters, though with the buff to scouts the Scout Squad may be better since they have longer range and precision shots from Sniper. Just no rending.

I painted all my generic marines as a chapter of unknown founding that matches my Sisters' color scheme. I was intending to do any squad that is specific to a chapter like death company or grey hunters in the appropriate colors (I also just got really tired of painting things white.) I am generally skeptical about adding more bolters, and I definitely don't want tactical squads. I feel like tactical squads are too similar to what I already get from every Sisters squad and what I'm looking for from allies is something different, like the mobility of bikes or jump troops that actually serve a purpose other than ablative wounds for Celestine. I like how I painted my Seraphim, they look cool, but they're literally just there to die for Celestine and occasionally get a lucky kill.

It is annoying that once again our special toys have been stolen for use by the abhuman freaks... at least ASMs didn't get the option for dual pistols yet.

To be fair, I saw the Salamanders special objectives, and I was thinking, someone should just cross out the word Salamanders and pencil in Sisters of Battle on those.

 pretre wrote:
They started as a redemptionist weapon.

And how would you play Redemptionists in 40k? As Frateris Militia. Well, you would back when we had rules for them. Hence ours. Certainly not something for marines or regular IG. Priests are part of the Ecclesiarchy delegated to the guard, so they get a pass. Chaplain are horrific abhuman heretics, so they do not get a pass.


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Mavnas wrote:
like the mobility of bikes or jump troops that actually serve a purpose other than ablative wounds for Celestine. I like how I painted my Seraphim, they look cool, but they're literally just there to die for Celestine and occasionally get a lucky kill.

What? The special pistols are just so cool. You can just kill stuff dead with 5 flamers template that get reroll to wound. And you can pop vehicles dead with 4 melta shots too!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 pretre wrote:
They started as a redemptionist weapon.

And how would you play Redemptionists in 40k? As Frateris Militia. Well, you would back when we had rules for them. Hence ours. Certainly not something for marines or regular IG. Priests are part of the Ecclesiarchy delegated to the guard, so they get a pass. Chaplain are horrific abhuman heretics, so they do not get a pass.

Actually, redemptionists are separate from FM.  They started in Necromunda, again external to SOB, and later were added to Codex: Chapter Approved with SOB.

 pretre wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
And how would you play Redemptionists in 40k? As Frateris Militia.

Actually, redemptionists are separate from FM. They started in Necromunda, again external to SOB, and later were added to Codex: Chapter Approved with SOB.

Redemptionists are separate from FM.... but would be played as Frateris Militia. Both are religiously motivated zealots that have banded together to slay the heretic, purge the unclean, and burn the witch! Burn, burn I say!
Sorry, sorry.... I got a little carried away there.

They would also defend shrines. But probably with flamers.

Mallich wrote:

 pretre wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
And how would you play Redemptionists in 40k? As Frateris Militia.

Actually, redemptionists are separate from FM.  They started in Necromunda, again external to SOB, and later were added to Codex: Chapter Approved with SOB.

Redemptionists are separate from FM.... but would be played as Frateris Militia. Both are religiously motivated zealots that have banded together to slay the heretic, purge the unclean, and burn the witch! Burn, burn I say!
Sorry, sorry.... I got a little carried away there.

They would also defend shrines. But probably with flamers.

Trust me, I'm well aware.

I used to play 60 of them in 3rd edition. And they had their own rules, much different than FM.

 pretre wrote:
Actually, redemptionists are separate from FM.

As Mallich noted, I said “Would be played with”.
If you look at the fluff for the frateris militia, redemptionists are just one specific subtype of what frateris militia is supposed to cover.
Would you deny that Sisters of Battle and Redemptionists are both heavily linked in the fluff to the Ecclesiarchy and the religious fanatic theme? Would you deny that Redemptionists and Sisters make much more natural allies than Redemptionists and Marines or Marines and Sisters ?

 pretre wrote:

 dracpanzer wrote:
the rest is drop pods loaded up with PenEngines.

PenEngines can't go in Drop Pods. They aren't infantry and they aren't dreadnoughts.

Well, that's just, annoying... my RG just inherited five more I guess. Going to be forced to spring for wings and beer for my local opponents, they've been being nice too me.

Thx much pretre!