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Jancoran-- Can you say a little more about using the 4x HF Rets? I am in the process of acquiring the models to try it and I'm curious how you use them, deploy them, accompany them up the board, and which targets you find most/least validating.
PanzerLeader-- Similarly, can you expand on you Inquisitor/Servo Skulls package? I have some Inquisition models from way back, some Stormtroopers and a Chimera, no skulls, but some Assassins... I'd like to start toying with allied Inquisition stuff. What's the leverage you get with the skulls?
War Kitten-- I know a guy selling about 1500 worth of Sisters, base-coated black. Not the most optimized selections for this edition's meta, but a good starting point for an army, maybe $700+ at retail that he'll probably price at half that.
So servo skulls provide you with one big benefit and one little benefit. The little benefit is that they reduce the scatter of any blast weapon targeted within 12" of the skull by a d6, meaning that any blast weapons you have become super accurate when they only scatter d6-BS. The down side is the skull is automatically destroyed whenever an enemy unit moves within 6" of it so you can really only use this rule once, maybe twice, before the skull is gone.
The big benefit is that enemy units cannot infiltrate or scout move within 12" of a skull. The skulls are placed before deployment and go anywhere on the table outside of the enemy's deployment zone. So you can place the skulls 0.1 inches outside your opponents deployment zone and prevent them from infiltrating inside their own deployment zone and within their entire table half of no man's land. This is huge since infiltration is no longer optional. In Dawn of War, you thus automatically force any units with infiltrate into reserve and in Hammer/Anvil and Vanguard they can start on the board but pretty far back. As long as you cover the dead space on your side of the table with models and LOS, you can stop all infiltration.
They also cannot scout within 12". Against scouting armies, I deploy them the same way. This prevents them from coming forward and prevents them from shuffling around inside their zone. Depending on who deploys first, you have a couple of options to extend the table. If they deploy centrally, deploy in the corners with your ranged shooting to put the maximum table space between you and put your short ranged stuff in reserves. They have to move up and you get a mini-alpha strike when your melta comes in. If they deploy with a refused flank, deploy on the opposite flank and force them to fight towards the middle on your terms.
I find skulls give me a ton of options and the entire set up is a steal at 34 points. If I have points left, I give the inquisitor the liber hersius so he can give my CCS scout to help support the dominions or I give him the psyocculum to make their plasma gun BS10 against psykers.
Of course, but in the current rule book, it doesn't say they MAY deploy using infiltrate- it says:
"Units that contain at least one model with this special rule are deployed last, after all other units (friend and foe) have been deployed. If both sides have Infiltrators, the players roll-off and the winner decides who goes first, then alternate deploying these units."
So, did they remove the option to deploy like a regular unit for units that have infiltrate?
AKA, are you REQUIRED to set them up after both sides have deployed (or hold them in reserves, in which case they Outflank), where in older editions you had a choice to infiltrate or not?
Example- is it legal in the current edition for a space marine scout squad to deploy with the rest of the army during deployment (not use Infiltrate), or are they required to set up after both sides have deployed using infiltrate rules (or Outflank later obviously)?
Using Servo Skulls (or other anti-infiltrating items) in the correct setup/deployment could then mean that any units with the infiltrate USR would be REQUIRED to be held in reserve and come in Outflanking, if they aren't allowed to be deployed NOT using the infiltrate USR.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2015/11/15 23:52:55
It can be bad if you only have a 12" deployment zone and the enemy has set up a row of servo skulls along the edge of it.
"That time I only loaded the cannon with powder. Next time, I will fill it with jewels and diamonds and they will cut you to shrebbons!" - Nogbad the Bad.
Lets pretend that there are enough skulls to prevent deployment in their own DZ, as well as anywhere else on the table. In this scenario, are all units with at least one model with the Infiltrate USR REQUIRED to be held in reserves, and thus outflank?
There is nothing in the rule book that I see anywhere that allows a unit with Infiltrate to set up without using infiltrate, aka if you can cover the board with skulls or units with LOS/close enough, you can force all of the opponents infiltrating units to be out-flankers.
I'm laughing at Scout Snipers needing to walk in from a board edge and not be able to shoot effectively until Turn 3+
And on a related note, I don't see that Outflank is optional either, so IF you force a unit with infiltrate to be held in reserves, they will be REQUIRED to come in on either the left or right board edge (as there is no longer an option for out-flankers to come on your board edge in the 7th ed book)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/16 00:45:53
Are you sure? It used to be for sure, but this is the wording for outflank-
"When an Outflanking unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right. Models move onto the table as described for other Reserves."
doesn't say they MAY outflank, it says when they arrive from reserves, they do this.
Lol, I need to stop hijacking this thread with this rules debate.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/16 01:30:21
Btothefnrock wrote: Are you sure? It used to be for sure, but this is the wording for outflank-
"When an Outflanking unit arrives from Reserves, but not Ongoing Reserve, the controlling player rolls a D6: on a 1-2, the unit comes in from the table edge to the left of their controlling player’s own table edge; on a 3-4, they come on from the right; on a 5-6, the player can choose left or right. Models move onto the table as described for other Reserves."
doesn't say they MAY outflank, it says when they arrive from reserves, they do this.
Lol, I need to stop hijacking this thread with this rules debate.
So the short answer is:
Infiltrators must deploy last, meaning skulls can block or limit their on table placement options.
Infiltrators may be placed in reserves. Once in reserves, they may outflank or they may enter the table normally from the owning player's edge. This also means that when deploying normally (i.e. without skulls as a consideration) you may place infiltrators into reserves or outflank reserves after seeing your opponent's normal deployment.
there is another place inthe rules where it clearly states you choose and announce to your opponent while deploying them in reserve WHETHER they will outflanking etc...
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Rules debates on outflank aside, you can see the massive utility those little skulls give you against a variety of opponents. Board control starts during deployment and those 9 points of skulls give you a great head start.
I tend to play mostly foot Sisters (with some vanilla Marine allies), and my regular opponent tends to play foot Orks.
I'm not a huge fan of sitting in my deployment zone trying to gun down the Orks before they reach and obliterate my squads in melee, because I know it's not fun to spend the game charging across the table and getting whittled down but being mostly unable to do anything. Because of its unexpected killiness in the first game I used them in, my Battle Conclave is primary target number one for any of my mom's shooty units like Lootas, so typically it doesn't last to turn 2 when I field it.
I also play low-points games of 750 to 1000 points to make the matches go faster, on a table 4 feet by 4 feet.
Is there a way to build my army to deal with mobs of Orks up close? Would equipping my Battle Sister Squads with a flamer and heavy flamer be effective enough? How about trying to get Penitent Engines into melee?
If you don't want to crush the Orks from range but still want to be able to deal with them up close, absolutely take Flamers and Heavy Flamers in your squads. You'll get a couple kills in overwatch every time you're charged, not to mention the kills you'll get if you're close enough the turn before they get to charge.
I have the fairly unpopular opinion that penitent engines can be pretty good when used properly, plus I love the model and the fluff behind them. If you want to use them, go for it. Be warned though, because they're open-topped anything with high enough strength to penetrate your armor can explode it. That said, dual Heavy Flamers mean you'll get a bunch of kills before you charge or if they charge you, then those things are just brutal in CC. I love them and basically always include a squad of 3 in my list.
I tend to play mostly foot Sisters (with some vanilla Marine allies), and my regular opponent tends to play foot Orks.
I'm not a huge fan of sitting in my deployment zone trying to gun down the Orks before they reach and obliterate my squads in melee, because I know it's not fun to spend the game charging across the table and getting whittled down but being mostly unable to do anything. Because of its unexpected killiness in the first game I used them in, my Battle Conclave is primary target number one for any of my mom's shooty units like Lootas, so typically it doesn't last to turn 2 when I field it.
I also play low-points games of 750 to 1000 points to make the matches go faster, on a table 4 feet by 4 feet.
Is there a way to build my army to deal with mobs of Orks up close? Would equipping my Battle Sister Squads with a flamer and heavy flamer be effective enough? How about trying to get Penitent Engines into melee?
Flamers, priests, Mauls.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
I tend to play mostly foot Sisters (with some vanilla Marine allies), and my regular opponent tends to play foot Orks.
I'm not a huge fan of sitting in my deployment zone trying to gun down the Orks before they reach and obliterate my squads in melee, because I know it's not fun to spend the game charging across the table and getting whittled down but being mostly unable to do anything. Because of its unexpected killiness in the first game I used them in, my Battle Conclave is primary target number one for any of my mom's shooty units like Lootas, so typically it doesn't last to turn 2 when I field it.
I also play low-points games of 750 to 1000 points to make the matches go faster, on a table 4 feet by 4 feet.
Is there a way to build my army to deal with mobs of Orks up close? Would equipping my Battle Sister Squads with a flamer and heavy flamer be effective enough? How about trying to get Penitent Engines into melee?
I don't tailor my armies, but there are several things I take in SOB lists which help a lot with orks.
Dominions with Melta in Repressors (covers anti-horde and anti-tank)
Repressors with Heavy Flamers (if allying with a Drop Pod force) or Heavy Bolters (in a bastion, if in a pure force)
Battle Sisters with Melta/Flamer or Heavy Flamer in Repressor
BSS Blob with Priests, Jacobus and/or Celestine. Wear down those Orks. Rerollable 3+/5++ is a real pain to orks. Hit and Running out, shooting them again and then staying in on their turn is an even bigger pain.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Example TAC Pure SOB List that would do fine with Orks:
Celestine - 135
Jacobus - 100
4 Priests with Litanies and 2 Power Mauls - 145
19 SOB with HF/F - 243
5 BSS with Melta/F in Repressor - 150
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor with Laud - 190
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor with Laud - 190
5 Dom with 4 Melta in Repressor - 180
Exorcist - 125
Exorcist - 125
6 Rets with 4 HB and Simulacrum - 122
Bastion with 2 Void Shields and Ammo Dump - 150
1850
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2015/11/17 17:50:20
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
I tend to play mostly foot Sisters (with some vanilla Marine allies), and my regular opponent tends to play foot Orks.
I'm not a huge fan of sitting in my deployment zone trying to gun down the Orks before they reach and obliterate my squads in melee, because I know it's not fun to spend the game charging across the table and getting whittled down but being mostly unable to do anything. Because of its unexpected killiness in the first game I used them in, my Battle Conclave is primary target number one for any of my mom's shooty units like Lootas, so typically it doesn't last to turn 2 when I field it.
I also play low-points games of 750 to 1000 points to make the matches go faster, on a table 4 feet by 4 feet.
Is there a way to build my army to deal with mobs of Orks up close? Would equipping my Battle Sister Squads with a flamer and heavy flamer be effective enough? How about trying to get Penitent Engines into melee?
I know you said Foot sisters, but Mechanised is the way to go imo. A unit of Battle Sisters with 2x Flamers in a Rhino is nasty to Orks - drive up to them, and Flame out of the hatch. Then let them charge you and eat 2x Flamers in overwatch. They'll glance the Rhino out, but on your next turn (assuming you pass your Pinning test...) you then activate your Act of Faith for Preferred Enemy and unload another 2x flame templates as well as rapid-fire bolt guns. If anything is left alive, they charge you again to eat more flamers in overwatch. Get some Dominion Squads with Meltaguns or Exorcists so you can S8 those T4 mega-nobs and insta kill them, as well as easily deal with any Kans, Dreads, Trukks or Wagons you might see.
Retributors and/or a Command Squad with Heavy Bolters are not too shabby against mobs of Boyz either.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
I tend to play mostly foot Sisters (with some vanilla Marine allies), and my regular opponent tends to play foot Orks.
I'm not a huge fan of sitting in my deployment zone trying to gun down the Orks before they reach and obliterate my squads in melee, because I know it's not fun to spend the game charging across the table and getting whittled down but being mostly unable to do anything. Because of its unexpected killiness in the first game I used them in, my Battle Conclave is primary target number one for any of my mom's shooty units like Lootas, so typically it doesn't last to turn 2 when I field it.
I also play low-points games of 750 to 1000 points to make the matches go faster, on a table 4 feet by 4 feet.
Is there a way to build my army to deal with mobs of Orks up close? Would equipping my Battle Sister Squads with a flamer and heavy flamer be effective enough? How about trying to get Penitent Engines into melee?
I know you said Foot sisters, but Mechanised is the way to go imo. A unit of Battle Sisters with 2x Flamers in a Rhino is nasty to Orks - drive up to them, and Flame out of the hatch. Then let them charge you and eat 2x Flamers in overwatch. They'll glance the Rhino out, but on your next turn (assuming you pass your Pinning test...) you then activate your Act of Faith for Preferred Enemy and unload another 2x flame templates as well as rapid-fire bolt guns. If anything is left alive, they charge you again to eat more flamers in overwatch. Get some Dominion Squads with Meltaguns or Exorcists so you can S8 those T4 mega-nobs and insta kill them, as well as easily deal with any Kans, Dreads, Trukks or Wagons you might see.
Retributors and/or a Command Squad with Heavy Bolters are not too shabby against mobs of Boyz either.
Heavy Flamer Retributors for the win.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Bike orks shouldn't be in range of heavy Flamers unless you're drop podding them.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
Jancoran wrote: To be fair, in that event, they wouldnt be in range of much. After all the Flamers follow the "other stuff" close behind and wait for their chance...
Bike orks should hang out at 18" most of the time. Unless your playing them dumb like me.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
well except for then, right. Lol. Though in our last game you hardly had a choice to do otherwise given the mission so that wasn't entirely your fault. It was just playing to the mission.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2015/11/18 04:22:00
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
If you're going to do a drop list, get 6 Drop pods, 3 Doms with 4 Melta, 3 Retributors with 4 HF. That's a good start.
Looking for great deals on miniatures or have a large pile you are looking to sell off? Checkout Mindtaker Miniatures.
Live in the Pacific NW? Check out http://ordofanaticus.com
On the topic of battling Orks, I played a game for a campaign yesterday against them.
The opponent was a experienced hobbyist but a new player.
Spoiler:
We played a thousand points, maelstorm of war.
He fielded something of the following:
Warboss, with the lucky stick and probably some kind of cc weapon he never got to use 2x 10 boys with 4+ armour in a truck with a nob with PK.
8 bikers
6 nob flashgitz
7 lootas
Battlewagon
I played:
Cannoness, 2 Bolt pistols, Book of st. lucius (campaign character)
2x 5 BSS flamer, HF, rhino
2x 5 Dominons, 4 melta, Rhino, one Laud Hailer
5 Retributers, 4 HF, rhino
2 Exorcists, 1 HKM
We played the mission that you start with one objective and you get one more every turn. (up to 6)
I got first turn, He never played sisters and did not expect me to go forward so aggressively. My dominions blew up his Battlewagon, One exorcist and both dominion rhinos shot at the flashgitz kiling 3.
Didn't get my objective but got first blood.
In his turn his bikers got a great roll and shot up one of my exorcists from the side, due to his good rolling and me leaving my flank exposed. He killed one dominion squad with some ork boys, the flashgitz charged the other group but failed to do anything. I managed to do one wound in return but he made Ld check.
In my second turn I managed to kill all his lootas with my retributers and got one objective card (don't remember what it was )
My Dominions lost combat by one and managed to escape the slaughter. (The fled into my cannonesses bubble so next turn they would rally automaticly)
In his turn, he really wanted my retributers dead while also claiming four objectives. (supremacy) In doing so he exposed one of his trucks to my shooting next turn while overcommitting his ork boys and warboss in charging my retributers. He tried a long distance charge but six died due to overwatch. He didn't make his charge.
In my turn I could easily flame both his boy squads to death because all his models were bunched up. (Not spreading them out during consolidation)
His exposed truck was blown up by my dominions.
After that I could systematically kill his units, after six turns one biker survived. In the end it was 22 vs 5 points. (I got 10 points in my last turn)
All in all it was a fun game, not just for me, for him too. I helped him a lot with the rules and he learned a lot about what not to do when facing flamers.
)
points in my last turn)
