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 GoonBandito wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'd never shell out for an Eviscerator on a Canoness. It's just way too many points. Power Mauls are almost as effective unless you're sending her against vehicles.

Eh, AP4 just bounces off most things. At least at AP2 you can actually threaten something with her. I think its worth it.

Then one would think a Power Axe would be better off. S5 instead of S6, and doesn't have armourbane, but is still AP2. Just 10pts cheaper (iirc)

Power Axe only makes you S4 (since Sisters are S3 base), which makes you struggle to wound things I find. Priests help with War Hymns giving you re-rolls To Wound, but I still find the Eviscerator more useful. Plus its a huge-arse chainsword which wins in my book

 GoonBandito wrote:
Power Axe only makes you S4 (since Sisters are S3 base), which makes you struggle to wound things I find. Priests help with War Hymns giving you re-rolls To Wound, but I still find the Eviscerator more useful. Plus its a huge-arse chainsword which wins in my book

That's right. I always think that Power Axes give +2S and Power Mauls give +1. Whoops!

My reasoning for the eviscerator is in line with GoonBandito. In my mind the canoness will never necessarily be a melee beast but atleast with the eviscerator she holds a better chance. S4 on at I1 is underwhelming even if it is AP2. S6 is much more reliable to wound and even allows you to threaten MC, I've killed a hive tyrant and carnifex before. Armourbane is also awesome, one could substitute with a melta bomb but I had one match vs. Astra militarum where the multiple attacks of the evescerator allowed me to blow up two squadded tanks in one charge. More attacks vs vehicles, even at S6+armourbane is more reliable in my mind rather than a single S8 meltabomb since most vehicles are 10 on the rear. Even if you roll poorly on the vehicle damage table and don't explode it you can still HP it out.

I say if you can spare the 10 extra points to take the eviscerator over the power axe+melta bomb then it's points well spent. You know assuming you run a canoness anyways, which it seems many think is not good points-wise. YMMV but I like my Canoness, she's done some awesome stuff once she makes her 4+ rosaries saves.

My canoness doesn't do CC.
Mine is more of a support character. I play her up to a 1000 points. She is equiped with 2 bp and the book of st. lucius. for 70 points she gives a nice bonus while I spent the points I saved on my units

Interesting idea, I'm curious as I don't have my phone here with me for the dex but can she be equipped with dual hand flamers or inferno pistols? Maybe one of each?

Yes you can take dual inferno pistols if you like but not hand flamers as they are not part of the ranged weapon list.

It's a bit expensive and limited use imo but yup burn away my fellow holy warrior

Honestly for their range they are overpriced but it'd be a fun build for some casual games I think.

I like mine with dual Inferno Pistols, riding with the melta-'minions.

GoonBandito wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'd never shell out for an Eviscerator on a Canoness. It's just way too many points. Power Mauls are almost as effective unless you're sending her against vehicles.

Eh, AP4 just bounces off most things. At least at AP2 you can actually threaten something with her. I think its worth it.

See, if you're going to go for a stabby Canoness, I don't think you should go for half measures. If she's stabby, she should have at the very least two CCWs, rerolls to wound from a Priest and +1 attack from a nearby Sacred Standard. With I4, that way she's smacking around Marines simultaneously and dropping them to I1 left, right and centre, which gives the rest of the blob or the Repentia or whatever she's riding with a fighting chance.

I find concussive to be a mere afterthought of a rule in general. It has no effect on things that have only 1W and most things I fight that have multiple wounds in combat are either:

A) Going to trounce me with or without being I1
B) Already I1 due to power fist or equivalent
C) Already lower I such as fighting Necron Overlord.

I think in all my games I've only ever seen concussive affect one of my opponents. It's kind of up there with soul blaze for me as a mediocre USR.

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I like mine with dual Inferno Pistols, riding with the melta-'minions.

GoonBandito wrote:

 Furyou Miko wrote:
I'd never shell out for an Eviscerator on a Canoness. It's just way too many points. Power Mauls are almost as effective unless you're sending her against vehicles.

Eh, AP4 just bounces off most things. At least at AP2 you can actually threaten something with her. I think its worth it.

See, if you're going to go for a stabby Canoness, I don't think you should go for half measures. If she's stabby, she should have at the very least two CCWs, rerolls to wound from a Priest and +1 attack from a nearby Sacred Standard. With I4, that way she's smacking around Marines simultaneously and dropping them to I1 left, right and centre, which gives the rest of the blob or the Repentia or whatever she's riding with a fighting chance.

Oh, I always make her stabby. I just prefer her to be S6 AP2 rather than S5 AP4 and +1 Attack.

RE concussive - it's an awesome rule to have on ranged weapons (and is yet another reason why Grav Guns are so stupidly good). Knocking say a Wraithknight down to I1 before you charge something in is huge - an Imperial Knight might actually win combat against a Wraithknight then lol. It's less useful on Melee weapons sure, but its not like its a poke in the eye with a burnt stick. Space Marine Captains with the Burning Blade, Monstrous Creatures of almost all types, Imperial Assassins and Eldar/Dark Eldar are all high initiative so making them attack at the same time as or even after you is still nice. A kitted out Cannoness with Priest support is tanky enough to survive multiple rounds in a challenge vs all those things too, so Concussive does come into play.

I suppose part of my issue with using concussive is my two main sources for getting it, my canoness and my dark apostle, never have EW so when they go against big scary things that they'd like to drop to I1 they tend to get splatted before it becomes useful. I'll start putting EW on my canoness but there's really no way for me to make my poor Dark Apostle have it. Burning brand of Skalathrax is what he's best with for now then IMO.

New Sisters of Battle player here -- main army is Orks. Trying to understand the pulse of this codex i.e. what units are considered good, bad, and ugly... is there a page or series of pages in this thread where all of that is addressed? Tough to read thru all 177 pages...

start with Dominion. AWESOME unit.

Nairul wrote:
New Sisters of Battle player here -- main army is Orks. Trying to understand the pulse of this codex i.e. what units are considered good, bad, and ugly... is there a page or series of pages in this thread where all of that is addressed? Tough to read thru all 177 pages...

Our special characters are both very good. Celestine always, Uriah a bit more situational.
Our Troops are basic, but hardy. Min-sized squads with melta and flamer/HF in Immolators are standard.
Our FA are extrememly good. Doms with all meltas in Immos are terrifying. Min-sized Seraphim with hand flamers are great harassing units.
Avoid our Elites when list building
Our HS is strong and fills the long-ranged fire support role very well. Either 3 Exorcists or 2 Exorcists and Retributors are both great choices.

 the_Armyman wrote:

Nairul wrote:
New Sisters of Battle player here -- main army is Orks. Trying to understand the pulse of this codex i.e. what units are considered good, bad, and ugly... is there a page or series of pages in this thread where all of that is addressed? Tough to read thru all 177 pages...

Our special characters are both very good. Celestine always, Uriah a bit more situational.
Our Troops are basic, but hardy. Min-sized squads with melta and flamer/HF in Immolators are standard.
Our FA are extrememly good. Doms with all meltas in Immos are terrifying. Min-sized Seraphim with hand flamers are great harassing units.
Avoid our Elites when list building
Our HS is strong and fills the long-ranged fire support role very well. Either 3 Exorcists or 2 Exorcists and Retributors are both great choices.

Thanks for the breakdown. I've read similar assessments elsewhere, so its nice to hear someone on Dakka corroborate. Six questions:

1) Since you seem to be okay with min-sized squad... When considering dedicated transports, should Immolator always get priority over Sororitas Rhino then? I was nervous that the Immolator doesnt have any Fire Points... so I guess the strategy is to let opponent destroy the Immolator and emergency disembark?

2) Lots of people say the only way to make Sisters competitive is to Ally them with another imperium army. Confirm/Deny? If confirm, who are best allies?

3) Based on your assessment, it looks like the Purge Squadron and Angelic Host formations could be competitive. Are either must-have?

4) What about Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad?

5) What about Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave?

6) Everyone says Priests are good. Should an 1850 Sisters list include the maximum 5 priests?

Nairul wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

Nairul wrote:
New Sisters of Battle player here -- main army is Orks. Trying to understand the pulse of this codex i.e. what units are considered good, bad, and ugly... is there a page or series of pages in this thread where all of that is addressed? Tough to read thru all 177 pages...

Our special characters are both very good. Celestine always, Uriah a bit more situational.
Our Troops are basic, but hardy. Min-sized squads with melta and flamer/HF in Immolators are standard.
Our FA are extrememly good. Doms with all meltas in Immos are terrifying. Min-sized Seraphim with hand flamers are great harassing units.
Avoid our Elites when list building
Our HS is strong and fills the long-ranged fire support role very well. Either 3 Exorcists or 2 Exorcists and Retributors are both great choices.

Thanks for the breakdown. I've read similar assessments elsewhere, so its nice to hear someone on Dakka corroborate. Six questions:

1) Since you seem to be okay with min-sized squad... When considering dedicated transports, should Immolator always get priority over Sororitas Rhino then? I was nervous that the Immolator doesnt have any Fire Points... so I guess the strategy is to let opponent destroy the Immolator and emergency disembark?

2) Lots of people say the only way to make Sisters competitive is to Ally them with another imperium army. Confirm/Deny? If confirm, who are best allies?

3) Based on your assessment, it looks like the Purge Squadron and Angelic Host formations could be competitive. Are either must-have?

4) What about Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad?

5) What about Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave?

6) Everyone says Priests are good. Should an 1850 Sisters list include the maximum 5 priests?

1) Rhinos should be the weapon of choice. You can fire out of them which plays big early on when you want to maximize firepower and make the enemy work to get at yours. There is nothing he Immolator does that a guy popping out the top of a rhino cant do when you're done surging on the enemy.

2) Deny. Having said that: good allies, Drop Space Marines do and I suppose Skittari.

3) No idea whether they make a difference.

4) No one likes the command squad. Canoness is fine.

5) Conclave is amazeballs.

6) i dont max Priests out but three does the trick usually for a blob squad.

Nairul wrote:

Thanks for the breakdown. I've read similar assessments elsewhere, so its nice to hear someone on Dakka corroborate. Six questions:

1) Since you seem to be okay with min-sized squad... When considering dedicated transports, should Immolator always get priority over Sororitas Rhino then? I was nervous that the Immolator doesnt have any Fire Points... so I guess the strategy is to let opponent destroy the Immolator and emergency disembark?

2) Lots of people say the only way to make Sisters competitive is to Ally them with another imperium army. Confirm/Deny? If confirm, who are best allies?

3) Based on your assessment, it looks like the Purge Squadron and Angelic Host formations could be competitive. Are either must-have?

4) What about Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad?

5) What about Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave?

6) Everyone says Priests are good. Should an 1850 Sisters list include the maximum 5 priests?

My take:

1) Rhinos for Battle Sister Squads, Immolators for Dominions Squads. The reason for Immos over Rhinos on Dominions squads is that you'll want to be shooting all 4 Meltaguns to make the most use out of the Act of Faith, which means you're gonna have to disembark anyway. Unless points are so tight you can't afford them, you may as well take an Immolator for the extra firepower in that case. Of course if Repressors are available to you (from Imperial Armour 2: Second Edition), use them where you have the points instead - they solve the problem of having to disembark to get your full firepower from the Dominions since Repressors have the extra fireports.

2) Sisters are a perfectly viable (if somewhat limited in composition) army by themselves. But they also ally well with any other Imperium of Man army. Imperial Knights are the most obvious, bringing you a Super Heavy Walker, but Space Marines and Guard offer things that Sisters don't have (namely strong melee, fliers, heavy armour and/or bulk expendable bodies in the case of Guard). Drop Pods filled with Melta Dominions or Heavy Flamer Retributors are also a very nice thing.

3) Unfortunately those Formations are technically Apocalypse Only. Sucks, since they're hardly over the top compared to current formations but that's the breaks. If your gaming group allows to you use them, the Purge Squadron could be interesting. I've never used them though.

4) The poor Canoness is a much maligned choice. I like using her, mostly because I think her model is kickarse, but also because she can be surprisingly tough in close combat when backed up by Priests. She is most certainly fighting an uphill battle compared to other choices and codexs though. Sororitas Command Squads can be a sneaky way to get a unit of Heavy Flamers or Heavy Bolters into a list when your Heavy Support slots are full, albeit they miss out on the Rending Act of Faith. But the most important use of a Sororitas Command Squad is to field the greatest model GW has ever made - Sister Dialogus.

5) Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclaves are good, namely for the combination of Crusaders tanking for Death Cult Assassins supported by Priests. I personally prefer to run those models allied in from Codex: Inquisition in a Henchmen Warband though since then you also get Inquisitors with all the neat tools they bring, as well as Land Raiders to assault out of.

6) Priests are an amazing force multiplier for close combat - if you plan on using a squad for Close Combat, get a Priest in there. Preferably two of them in fact for multiple War Hymns, with one carrying the Litanies of Faith relic so you auto-pass the War Hymn checks. This applies to allies too - Guard Blobs or Space Marine CC units get huge buffs from Priests. You could use them just to add Fearless to squads so you don't have to worry about Morale checks, but I personally find that just gets a little too pricey - far better to mechanise up in transports imo.

 Jancoran wrote:

Nairul wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

Nairul wrote:
New Sisters of Battle player here -- main army is Orks. Trying to understand the pulse of this codex i.e. what units are considered good, bad, and ugly... is there a page or series of pages in this thread where all of that is addressed? Tough to read thru all 177 pages...

Our special characters are both very good. Celestine always, Uriah a bit more situational.
Our Troops are basic, but hardy. Min-sized squads with melta and flamer/HF in Immolators are standard.
Our FA are extrememly good. Doms with all meltas in Immos are terrifying. Min-sized Seraphim with hand flamers are great harassing units.
Avoid our Elites when list building
Our HS is strong and fills the long-ranged fire support role very well. Either 3 Exorcists or 2 Exorcists and Retributors are both great choices.

Thanks for the breakdown. I've read similar assessments elsewhere, so its nice to hear someone on Dakka corroborate. Six questions:

1) Since you seem to be okay with min-sized squad... When considering dedicated transports, should Immolator always get priority over Sororitas Rhino then? I was nervous that the Immolator doesnt have any Fire Points... so I guess the strategy is to let opponent destroy the Immolator and emergency disembark?

2) Lots of people say the only way to make Sisters competitive is to Ally them with another imperium army. Confirm/Deny? If confirm, who are best allies?

3) Based on your assessment, it looks like the Purge Squadron and Angelic Host formations could be competitive. Are either must-have?

4) What about Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad?

5) What about Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave?

6) Everyone says Priests are good. Should an 1850 Sisters list include the maximum 5 priests?

1) Rhinos should be the weapon of choice. You can fire out of them which plays big early on when you want to maximize firepower and make the enemy work to get at yours. There is nothing he Immolator does that a guy popping out the top of a rhino cant do when you're done surging on the enemy.

2) Deny. Having said that: good allies, Drop Space Marines do and I suppose Skittari.

3) No idea whether they make a difference.

4) No one likes the command squad. Canoness is fine.

5) Conclave is amazeballs.

6) i dont max Priests out but three does the trick usually for a blob squad.

Thanks. For Dedicated Transports, you seem to have a different assessment than the_Armyman who seems to prefer Immolators... who's in the right!?

Nairul wrote:

 the_Armyman wrote:

Nairul wrote:
New Sisters of Battle player here -- main army is Orks. Trying to understand the pulse of this codex i.e. what units are considered good, bad, and ugly... is there a page or series of pages in this thread where all of that is addressed? Tough to read thru all 177 pages...

Our special characters are both very good. Celestine always, Uriah a bit more situational.
Our Troops are basic, but hardy. Min-sized squads with melta and flamer/HF in Immolators are standard.
Our FA are extrememly good. Doms with all meltas in Immos are terrifying. Min-sized Seraphim with hand flamers are great harassing units.
Avoid our Elites when list building
Our HS is strong and fills the long-ranged fire support role very well. Either 3 Exorcists or 2 Exorcists and Retributors are both great choices.

Thanks for the breakdown. I've read similar assessments elsewhere, so its nice to hear someone on Dakka corroborate. Six questions:

1) Since you seem to be okay with min-sized squad... When considering dedicated transports, should Immolator always get priority over Sororitas Rhino then? I was nervous that the Immolator doesnt have any Fire Points... so I guess the strategy is to let opponent destroy the Immolator and emergency disembark?

2) Lots of people say the only way to make Sisters competitive is to Ally them with another imperium army. Confirm/Deny? If confirm, who are best allies?

3) Based on your assessment, it looks like the Purge Squadron and Angelic Host formations could be competitive. Are either must-have?

4) What about Canoness and Sororitas Command Squad?

5) What about Ecclesiarchy Battle Conclave?

6) Everyone says Priests are good. Should an 1850 Sisters list include the maximum 5 priests?

1) I prefer Rhinos for my BSS squads so I can fire out the top hatch. I find that is more valuable to me at 35 points than an extra heavy weapon but no fire points at 70 points.

2) You don't strictly speaking need allies. That said, I prefer to ally in Astra Militarum to add some barrage elements into the army to cover a gap in the Sisters codex. Love the Artillery Company formation out of Mont'ka. Blood Angels or regular marines to get some pods and a proper assault element can also be good.

3) Nope. Definitely not a requirement. Between myself and Jancoran, I think we've won over 50 tournament games this edition with Sisters and placed consistently in the top 10% without ever fielding either.

4) Canoness can be a good utility HQ. Command squads are not worth it.

5) Battle Conclave is great but you need to build a list that supports it.

6) Depends on the army. I never use them because I run MSU and they don't provide a ton of value. If you have blob squads they are great.

Nairul wrote:
Thanks. For Dedicated Transports, you seem to have a different assessment than the_Armyman who seems to prefer Immolators... who's in the right!?

Neither is wrong, they are both good. That being said, the Repressor is better than both of them, if your local area allows Forgeworld. Repressors take sisters from good to great.

I prefer Immos over Rhinos because I'd rather fire a twin-linked MM at a greater range than be forced to roll up to within 6-12" to fire a single melta. Also, an Immo's MM is useful from Turn 1 and, unlike a Rhino, is a legitimate threat rather than just a nuisance.

I don't know how revolutionary of a tactic it is, but I prefer a Beta or Gamma strike tactic. Turn 1 is maneuver if I think an opponent is going to sit back, or it's a less agressive 6" redeploy to counter incoming threats. Using reserves manipulation, I aim to get my Doms in all at once. Then on Turn 2 or 3, when I'm in position and the enemy is within 12", I go all in. 6" move on Immos, everyone dismounts, burn my Acts of Faith, Celestine breaks cover from her squad, and I look to cripple the enemy in a single turn of shooting or utterly crush a single flank.

Nairul wrote:

Thanks. For Dedicated Transports, you seem to have a different assessment than the_Armyman who seems to prefer Immolators... who's in the right!?

UNless youre going to hang back with the Dominion which you typically aren't. the Immolator is either moving in which case snap firing OR its only moving 6" because it has rroved in which case two can fire out of it (better than twin linked) OR dropping people off and firing (but that's 1 of the three options and the tank probably isn't going to be allowed more than one shot in a game where you're moving up).

so Rhinos is my OPINION.

Melta-Immolators also give a squad a chance to kill 2 targets when coming out of outflank reserve.

 Jancoran wrote:

Nairul wrote:

Thanks. For Dedicated Transports, you seem to have a different assessment than the_Armyman who seems to prefer Immolators... who's in the right!?

UNless youre going to hang back with the Dominion which you typically aren't. the Immolator is either moving in which case snap firing OR its only moving 6" because it has rroved in which case two can fire out of it (better than twin linked) OR dropping people off and firing (but that's 1 of the three options and the tank probably isn't going to be allowed more than one shot in a game where you're moving up).

so Rhinos is my OPINION.

I think in the end you can't really go wrong with either. I tend to run 4-6ish immolators in my lists, 2-3 dominion squads with 2-3 squads of battle sisters. I tend to disembark the sisters to shotgun 1 thing all to hell(and then die) and let my tank go do it's own thing, which you can't do in a rhino. Basically I figure the if i'm within 12" anyway I'm getting out regardless and with an immolator that gives me 3 melta shots instead of 2. TL is not as good as 2 melta but it does help mitigate the snapshooting and the longer range means more target choice even if you only have a 31% chance to hit.

In the end I think it comes down to which thing you want to die first. I choose for my infantry to die and tanks to live so I pick Immospam. If you're strategy requires more longevity for your troops rhinos are the better choice.

 Shandara wrote:
Melta-Immolators also give a squad a chance to kill 2 targets when coming out of outflank reserve.

Sure, but that's mitigated somewhat by the fact that you MUST expose the Dominion to do more and there are a lot of times when you wont wish to... I don't know... It's a judgement call obviously but I got away from immolators and I vascilate back and forth on it but I mostly like Rhinos. With the same extra point you save you can do damage elsewhere if that is the concern, right?

 Shandara wrote:
Melta-Immolators also give a squad a chance to kill 2 targets when coming out of outflank reserve.

This is why pretre converted me to Repressors. Better survivability for the girls and the tank can still contribute against infantry and light vehicles.

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Melta-Immolators also give a squad a chance to kill 2 targets when coming out of outflank reserve.

This is why pretre converted me to Repressors. Better survivability for the girls and the tank can still contribute against infantry and light vehicles.

3 problems here, 1. unless you spend 20 hours a day scouring the web for them, you'll be lucky to even get a chance to bid on a repressor 2. It also costs ALLLL the money, and 3. Most tournaments will only let you take 1 due to forgeworld stuff being unique 0-1

ERJAK wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Melta-Immolators also give a squad a chance to kill 2 targets when coming out of outflank reserve.

This is why pretre converted me to Repressors. Better survivability for the girls and the tank can still contribute against infantry and light vehicles.

3 problems here, 1. unless you spend 20 hours a day scouring the web for them, you'll be lucky to even get a chance to bid on a repressor 2. It also costs ALLLL the money, and 3. Most tournaments will only let you take 1 due to forgeworld stuff being unique 0-1

1 and 2. Convert them from Immolators. It is what a lot of people are doing now.
3. Most tournaments I go to are ITC and allow them as many as you want.

 pretre wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

PanzerLeader wrote:

 Shandara wrote:
Melta-Immolators also give a squad a chance to kill 2 targets when coming out of outflank reserve.

This is why pretre converted me to Repressors. Better survivability for the girls and the tank can still contribute against infantry and light vehicles.

3 problems here, 1. unless you spend 20 hours a day scouring the web for them, you'll be lucky to even get a chance to bid on a repressor 2. It also costs ALLLL the money, and 3. Most tournaments will only let you take 1 due to forgeworld stuff being unique 0-1

1 and 2. Convert them from Immolators. It is what a lot of people are doing now.
3. Most tournaments I go to are ITC and allow them as many as you want.

Huh, I guess it IS just adepticon with the FW rule. I thought it got carried from ITC too. My mistake.

As for conversions, I hate converting things. for STRICT wysiwyg I have a tendency to just glue guns to people foreheads. If that's a skill you have though the repressor is pretty darn solid.